Today was the 60th anniversary of the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor

[WARCHILD]

*Silence*
Never forget.

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{ AIM HIGH }

[U2Bama]

[Thermopylae]

sad

[Anthony]

Yes, we should remember them in silence and never forget.
Also, I would like to remember the countless of innocent Japanese civilians who died in the atomic bomb attacks at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I shall never forget them, either.

Ant.

[Achtung Bubba]

Yes, we should also remember those who died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But at the same time, we should NOT turn our moment of remembrance into an opportunity to appear even-handed and well reasoned and suggest that the two military actions were morally equivalent.

When we, the United States, dropped the two atomic bombs on Japan, we were getting ready to launch a full-scale ground assault on the mainland, an assault against thousands of soldiers and millions of so-called civilians who showed themselves willing to fight to the last man, woman, and child.

NOT using the atomic bombs would have resulted in a bloodbath that would make Iwo Jima and Okinawa look like training exercises.

Beyond that, we were fighting in a war that we DID NOT START. They attacked us, unannounced and unprovoked, on an early Sunday morning while we were at peace.

The only proper response to that kind of attack is overwhelming force, a military reply that not only causes equal damage, but more damage - that not only defeats the enemy, but eradicates them.

[Anthony]

Yes, I'm sure you're right AchtungBubba, but forgetting women and children being incinerated doesn't make me feel better as a human being.

Ant.

[Danospano]

Every year we relive that horrible moment in U.S. History. I hate to say this, because it will undoubtedly get me stonned, but think enough is enough.
It's treated almost like a national holiday or something. We were attacked for Christ's sake!
To realize why I think we should let sleeping dogs lie, think of what our world would be like if we had a moment of silence for every damn horror that EVER took place and harmed a large number of people. ---We'd never be able to enjoy our lives.
I'm only 21, and I'm already getting tired of being told EVERY YEAR about how 'today is the anniversary of Pearl Harbor...let's talk about how brave our grandfather were" or "Elvis Presely died on this day back in 1977...let's do another stupid news story on the Nightly News"...
Urrrghhh! I just had to vent that frustration...

[Danospano]

I know I'm sounding ungrateful and stupid, but I believe in giving respect where it's due. And in my opinion we've already thanked the LORD for getting us through that horrible time of history.
I really don't want to sound like I'm spiteful at all the attention given to his date, because I do realize the importance of it. I just feel that it's so phony when the President makes a speech, and members of the media create a big hyped televison program to commemorate the deaths of thousands of men and women and children.
I'm not angry at the idea of paying tribute so much as I'm angry at the nature of human being and how they can take something that's so special to a certain demographic and use it to win votes polticially, and wins ratings by seduction.

[WARCHILD]

Well, i agree that the presidents speech always sounds phoney. The media coverage can be too, but often is actually quite well done.

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{ AIM HIGH }

[brettig]

Ive heard promos for the pearl harbour dvd trying to sell off the anniversary...

[DoctorGonzo]

Beyond that, we were fighting in a war that we DID NOT START. They attacked us, unannounced and unprovoked, on an early Sunday morning while we were at peace.

I've seen this line of reasoning dragged out over and over again....."Well, they attacked us first, so whatever we do to them is OK".

It is the same line of reasoning that produces tyrants and pulls "freedom-loving" nations down the slippery slope towards atrocity.

[U2Bama]

Maybe you could try to pass some law that prohibits Americans from making speeches about it or commemorating it.

[DoctorGonzo]

Maybe you could try to pass some law that prohibits Americans from making speeches about it or commemorating it.

Perhaps you need a lesson in basic logic?

I made a statement about how a sneak attack does not give us the right to respond with no regard for civillian casualities and you somehow transform that through some magical thought process into "DoctorGonzo wants to ban all commemoration and discussion of Pearl Harbor"

WTF?

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
sneak attack

I thought they determined that "sneak attack" was racist, offensive, and politically incorrect towards the Japanese attackers?

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by Danospano:
Every year we relive that horrible moment in U.S. History. I hate to say this, because it will undoubtedly get me stonned, but think enough is enough.
It's treated almost like a national holiday or something. We were attacked for Christ's sake!
To realize why I think we should let sleeping dogs lie, think of what our world would be like if we had a moment of silence for every damn horror that EVER took place and harmed a large number of people. ---We'd never be able to enjoy our lives.
I'm only 21, and I'm already getting tired of being told EVERY YEAR about how 'today is the anniversary of Pearl Harbor...let's talk about how brave our grandfather were" or "Elvis Presely died on this day back in 1977...let's do another stupid news story on the Nightly News"...
Urrrghhh! I just had to vent that frustration...

i agree. why don't we try remembering the people and forget about the incident? human history is really nothing to be proud of.

[Anthony]

Originally posted by U2Bama:
I thought they determined that "sneak attack" was racist, offensive, and politically incorrect towards the Japanese attackers?

U2Bama, with all due respect, I think you're getting it wrong - I don't know exactly where DoctorGonzo is coming from ( I don't agree with him in his stance on the American Taliban fighter in the other thread) but I do know that calling the Japanese attack as a 'sneak attack' is not wrong; I deplore what happened in Pearl Harbour and it was unprovoked as it was callous. However, what I object to even more was the US dropping two atomic bombs on two cities filled with innocent women and children, not to mention men as well who had nothing to do with that. It would be like dropping atomic bombs on Afghanistan nowadays. I know it was the right cause, but it was the wrong way to do it, and no matter how anyone paints it as just, it wasn't. Incinerating innocent children by the millions is probably one of the most barbaric things any civilisation has ever done, and I want everyone to admit to it, while they go on about the lives lost during Pearl Harbour. Oh yes, many innocent lives were lost, but is that in balance with those lost in Japan? No, they weren't.

It was barbaric, not patriotic, and it would be nice if people remembered the ENTIRE loss of human life, not to regard it as only the good guys dying on this oh so tragic day.

Ant.

[CannibalisticArtist]

neither side has ANYTHING to be proud of from that attack. the japanese are wrong to instigate the attack, and the US is wrong for nearly flat out totalling japan. in war there is no winner, evrybody loses to some extent, it's just a question of which side suffers less.
you cannot completely forget the past, but don't dwell on it either.
do germans have the right to "commemorate" some of Hilter's military "successes"?? are they proud to be german? i'm sure they are and so they should be, some of the best things came out of there.
are they proud of their military history? i hope not.
rsearch the last 500 years of human history and tell me, straight-faced, it's been a pleasant picture, there was a lot of good, but more bad things happened, a lot more.



[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-11-2001).]

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Anthony:
U2Bama, with all due respect, I think you're getting it wrong - I don't know exactly where DoctorGonzo is coming from ( I don't agree with him in his stance on the American Taliban fighter in the other thread) but I do know that calling the Japanese attack as a 'sneak attack' is not wrong; I deplore what happened in Pearl Harbour and it was unprovoked as it was callous.

Ant:

My comment regarding "sneak attack" was pure sarcasm. Ever since the movie PEARL HARBOR came out, hypersensitive speech police have been warning American educators and the media not to use the term "sneak attack" as that could somehow be perceived as racist, offensive, insensitive, etc. I do not know where they get that from, but it is just an example of the petty monster that America has created known as "political correctness.

Incinerating innocent children by the millions is probably one of the most barbaric things any civilisation has ever done, and I want everyone to admit to it, while they go on about the lives lost during Pearl Harbour.

Actually, there were about 270,000 victims in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, combined, and that includes those that died over the long term. Not that I think that makes it any better. Considering the situation at the time, though, I cannot second-guess our President or military in the decision to bomb those two cities. Even as they were being defeated, Japan's imperial forces refused to let up in the entire Pacific theatre. Not only that, but in their desperation, they were increasing their run of kamikaze (suicide) missions. I could never have dropped the bomb myself, but I do not think that the decision was entered into lightly. I hope nothing like that ever happens again.

~U2Alabama

[Anthony]

Thanks U2Bama, I thought I had gotten your comment the wrong way round, I'm glad you clarified it; yes, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is one of the most obscene things ever created by Modern thinking. We are meant to like people because of their colour, not because of who they are. We are supposed to be REALLY REALLY ok with the idea of homosexuality not because it IS alright, but because we are meant to think of it as such. We are supposed to think women and men are the same, not equal as they are. And we are not supposed to say things as they are in fear of sounding brutish and cruel, well I for one have always called shit shit, not excrement in hope of sounding PC. I agree though, to hell with PC.

Thanks for clarifying that!

Ant.

[U2Bama]

No problem; but most of those items are not the part of political correctness I find crazy; it is more the "sneak attack is racist" campaings that trouble me.

~U2Alabama

[This message has been edited by U2Bama (edited 12-11-2001).]