To drink or not to drink...

[JOFO]

Every time I drink, I crave a line of coke.

Seriously, all the drug users I knew in college, usually did NOT drink much alcohol. Even most of the pot heads did not drink.

yeah, generally speaking, if you're doing a certain kind of drug, you're not a hard core drinker also.

except for the guys in motley crue or some stupid shit like like.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

I've got no problem at all with drinking, but do get annoyed by the slobbery sick drunk people. I also have no tolerance for people who do stupid stuff and blame it on alcohol. It's not like I've never been blasted to the point of incoherance, but I've been able to control myself.

As for those who don't drink by saying "they don't see the point"..ect..these are the people I'm afraid for actually. Mainly college age non-drinkers. Unless someone is so incredibly committed to not drinking, usually for religious reasons, they will eventually break down and have something to drink. When that time comes, they don't know how to handle alcohol and these are the people in my experience who do incredibly dumb things and don't know when to stop drinking. In fact, every person I've known who's been in detox has been someone who for the first couple years of college was like "I can have fun without drinking" When these girls finally did drink, they didn't know how their body would handle it and went out of control. That's just my personal experience, but I've found that the regular drinkers aren't the ones doing stupid stuff(at least stuff they totally regretted).

 

[joyfulgirl]

Every time I drink, I crave a line of coke.

Seriously, all the drug users I knew in college, usually did NOT drink much alcohol. Even most of the pot heads did not drink.

I'm not talking about people who drink, or people who do drugs who aren't addicts; I'm talking about people with a genetic predisposition to addictions. It's a pattern I've seen a lot for many many years. I have a number of friends who have died from drug overdoses and the trigger was always alcohol. I'm glad your experience has been different.

To clarify, what I'm saying is that obviously not everyone who drinks will then go become a drug addict; that's ridiculous. But for people with a genetic predisposition to addictions, alcohol is often the gateway drug. It is often said that marijuana is the gateway drug but this has not been my experience or that of anyone else that I know. It is my opinion that alcohol is a much more dangerous drug than marijuana. But I'm not against alcohol for any moral reasons. I enjoy a drink myself.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I have a problem with excessive drinking. Especially these days since one of my friends who is 17 lost her virginity while she was drunk. And that was after she had said "Oh no, I don't get THAT drunk."

Oh yeah, people seem to think alcohol is some kind of mental disorder. Mind you, I don't oppose drinking in general, but blaming it for doing stupid things is pretty irresponsible. Drunk drivers especially piss me off more than anything. Drinking is fun and games until it becomes you. There are people out there who talk about nothing but alcohol. I fart in their direction.

 

[bsp77]

I'm not talking about people who drink, or people who do drugs who aren't addicts; I'm talking about people with a genetic predisposition to addictions. It's a pattern I've seen a lot for many many years. I have a number of friends who have died from drug overdoses and the trigger was always alcohol. I'm glad your experience has been different.

To clarify, what I'm saying is that obviously not everyone who drinks will then go become a drug addict; that's ridiculous. But for people with a genetic predisposition to addictions, alcohol is often the gateway drug. It is often said that marijuana is the gateway drug but this has not been my experience or that of anyone else that I know. It is my opinion that alcohol is a much more dangerous drug than marijuana. But I'm not against alcohol for any moral reasons. I enjoy a drink myself.

If someone has an addictive gene then it will find its way to come out whether through alcohol or not. I have just seen a lot people post about how horrible alcohol is over and over (there have been other threads too). Alcohol can certainly be used in bad ways, but so can food. Obesity is a horrible problem in the US. Everything comes down to moderation. And smoking I think is much worse, it is the only substance I can think of that can kill you and harm people around you when used the way it is meant to be used and in moderation.

Oh, and I wasn't trying to come down on you, sometimes I just can't resist my own sarcasm.

 

[Laura M]

I sometimes go out for drinks, I have never drank myself to an oblivion and am always aware of what I am doing. Sometimes I may go out and not drink at all, sometimes I might like a glass of wine or something. If people want to go out with friends, have a drink, chat well, I think there is nothing wrong with it. I find people who drink and drive to be wreckless and should be punished for it, especially an adult who spends the night drinking then drives home with 4 children in his car (someone we know did this), that's jsut selfish and stupid. I think there should bea crackdown on underage drinking, a lot young people tend to get themselves in nasty situations when they are drunk. (I was listening to a report on the radio last week about young people getting drunk, one girl was a diabetic and had callopsed, another boy had hit his head on the ground and a few others had been in fights/ hurt themselves as a result of drinking).

As Beli said: Live and let live.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

There are people out there who talk about nothing but alcohol. I fart in their direction.

Me too, pal.

 

[nbcrusader]

1. Do not abuse your body

2. Do not cause others to stumble

 

[joyfulgirl]

Everything comes down to moderation.

I agree with you there, except that by definition alcoholics can't moderate their alcohol intake and, as you said, the addiction can come out in other ways. It's a terrible disease. But in terms of people who aren't addicts but perhaps just abusers, I agree with you that moderation is the way to go--in all things. Alcohol abuse is something I have never quite understood since I don't see the appeal; it makes people do really stupid things and its effects are quite unattractive. I rarely drink but occasionally it's a nice way to relax. There is nothing wrong with drinking in moderation and I really have little tolerance for people who get all self-righteous about it.

 

[tiny dancer]

I don't have a problem with people drinking alcohol as long as they don't over indulge to the point they get drunk. I have an occasional glass of wine with my meals or if some sort of celebration is going on. Like bsp77 said "Everything comes down to moderation".

 

[indra]

1. Do not abuse your body

2. Do not cause others to stumble

Do you mean these are reasons not to drink at all? Or do you mean don't drink to the point it causes these things? I'm not quite sure.


My opinion:

I don't personally drink much, hardly ever when I'm out (I always drive, so I don't drink), but I like it sometimes. I actually drank wine and other alcohol when I was very young too...never much, usually a few sips here and there, occasionally some over ice cream (still love a nice coffee or hazelnut liqueur plain or over ice cream). My dad liked to make wine, so of course I always got to taste it. I actually think that because it was never made a big deal to drink it never became a source of rebellion against as it seems to for so many kids. I was always allowed, so I didn't need to go behind my parents' backs.

I don't really care what others do, unless it has an adverse effect on others. So, essentially use is OK, abuse is not. Doesn't mean one can't get plastered sometimes (in fairly controlled situations), but none of the drunk driving and similar behaviour. Also, it's probably not a good idea to drink (even in what would normally be considered moderation) if you have had problems with it, or there is a history of problems in your family.

 

[bsp77]

Also, it's probably not a good idea to drink (even in what would normally be considered moderation) if you have had problems with it, or there is a history of problems in your family.

Only problem with that is most people I have talked to have some family member (grandparent, uncle) who was an alcoholic. Both sides of my family have some history with it, but I do not have any problem.

Speaking of which, I just opened a nice bottle of Chianti and am watching National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Life is good.

 

[indra]

Only problem with that is most people I have talked to have some family member (grandparent, uncle) who was an alcoholic. Both sides of my family have some history with it, but I do not have any problem.

Speaking of which, I just opened a nice bottle of Chianti and am watching National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Life is good.

I don't mean one or two family members with a problem, as you say, pretty much everyone has that, but if there are several close family members with problems, not drinking at all might be a wise decision. It's up to each person to decide though.

 

[bsp77]

I don't mean one or two family members with a problem, as you say, pretty much everyone has that, but if there are several close family members with problems, not drinking at all might be a wise decision. It's up to each person to decide though.

Alright I'll give you that. If your parents or siblings were alcoholics, definitely proceed with caution.

 

[indra]

Alright I'll give you that. If your parents or siblings were alcoholics, definitely proceed with caution.

'tis OK, my first post wasn't very clear on that point.

 

[U2democrat]

Alcoholism runs in my family. Whether or not I have it who knows.

 

[beli]

Theres some statistics that people who have one alcoholic parent have a 50% chance of having an addictive personality.

If you have two alcoholic parents then the chances are even higher.

 

[BAW]

Theres some statistics that people who have one alcoholic parent have a 50% chance of having an addictive personality.

If you have two alcoholic parents then the chances are even higher.

Very true.

Both of my parents, 2 of my grandparents, my sister and several aunts and uncles have had serious addictions in one form or another (alcohol/illegal drugs/prescription drugs).

I have to give serious thought to every substance I put in my body because I know, with great certainty, that I can become addicted in the blink of an eye. I overcame some problems in my early 20's but alcohol could definately become a problem for me if I let it. I know without a doubt its genetic for me.

 

[U2democrat]

It's only on my dad's side. So once again, who knows.

 

[bsp77]

Ok, this is probably not the most popular thing to say, but I have never understood alcoholism. I understand problem drinking but not alcoholism. I used to drink too much in college for about two years. Never did anything too stupid but would get pretty drunk every weekend. Not really sure why, just nothing better to do. After I met my future wife, I slowly stopped as I had something better in my life. Based on my actions it would have seemed I was an alcoholic but I just stopped drinking that way and would just drink sometimes. Maybe I just don't have true alcoholism in me, but after I have a drink, I almost always want another one, but just stop myself most of the time. To me, it seems to be willpower. I am sure that there really is alcoholism but does anybody understand how it truly works? As I said, it almost seems like low willpower to me. Not trying to piss people off, just want more info.

 

[beli]

Its an obsession. Same with drug addicts

Same with people who have to wash their hands 300 times before they leave the house.

Its not a willpower thing. To overcome it, yes, willpower is required but alcoholism is not caused my a lack of willpower.

Does that make sense?

 

[joyfulgirl]

I have to disagree, beli. It is not just an obsession. For an alcoholic, or any kind of addiction, there is actually something different happening in the brain chemistry having to do with the pleasure/pain principle and serotonin levels. I have actually studied this a great deal in dealing with a close friend with serious, life-threatening, addictions. I have no addictions on either side of my family as far back as anyone can trace. I can have, say, 3 drinks of straight liquor and feel nothing more than warmth and relaxation. More than that and I start to get drunk. This friend, however, has ONE drink and he begins slurring his words and absolutely cannot say no to another drink, and in fact he is then driven by something beyond his control to have another drink. It is a disease, not an obsession, although probably an argument can be made that obsessions might be diseases as well.

bsp77, it is really good that you are able to have such willpower and I think it is also very courageous of you to even question whether you might be an alcoholic.

 

[bsp77]

Its an obsession. Same with drug addicts

Same with people who have to wash their hands 300 times before they leave the house.

Its not a willpower thing. To overcome it, yes, willpower is required but alcoholism is not caused my a lack of willpower.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense, I guess I am looking for a scientific answer. Neurons, synapses and such.

Sometimes I feel that I have the addictive gene but just fight it. I probably think about having a drink much more than is healthy, but still drink in moderation. I am pretty sure that alcoholism is real but my feelings often betray that. I guess I using my own experience too much, everyone is different.

Are there any recovering alcoholics around here that would be willing to talk about it? Maybe that is too personal, I really just want to understand it. I guess I should just go read an article on the Internet and leave everyone alone.

 

[bsp77]

I have to disagree, beli. It is not just an obsession. For an alcoholic, or any kind of addiction, there is actually something different happening in the brain chemistry having to do with the pleasure/pain principle and serotonin levels. I have actually studied this a great deal in dealing with a close friend with serious, life-threatening, addictions. I have no addictions on either side of my family as far back as anyone can trace. I can have, say, 3 drinks of straight liquor and feel nothing more than warmth and relaxation. More than that and I start to get drunk. This friend, however, has ONE drink and he begins slurring his words and absolutely cannot say no to another drink, and in fact he is then driven by something beyond his control to have another drink. It is a disease, not an obsession, although probably an argument can be made that obsessions might be diseases as well.

bsp77, it is really good that you are able to have such willpower and I think it is also very courageous of you to even question whether you might be an alcoholic.

You posted while I was posting, this is the kind of thing I am looking for.

 

[beli]

I have to disagree, beli. It is not just an obsession.

I disagree. It is an obsession. I dont use the word obsession lightely though. I wouldn't call anything "just an obsession". Obsession is quite a heavy, clinical word.

Also, your friend can be an alcoholic who has one glass and is slurring. Many more alcoholics can drink whole bottles of alcohol and still appear perfectly sober.

If we are really going to get into it, its a depression related disease, which is what alcoholics are treated for. Once they can overcome their depression it makes it a little bit easier to generate enough willpower to overcome the genetic predisposition to obsession /addiction.

 

[joyfulgirl]

I disagree. It is an obsession.

I would agree that it is an obsession if you are talking about dysfunctions in brain chemistry that lead to obsessive behavior.

I agree with everything else you said. My friend is definitely just one kind of alcoholic. But the point was that alcohol affects alcoholics in a completely different way than how it affects the non-alcoholic.

Also, depression is related to serotonin levels, so there is definitely a link there.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Yeah, that makes sense, I guess I am looking for a scientific answer. Neurons, synapses and such.

You want science? Here you go:

http://www.familiesofaddiction.com/concept.htm

 

[bsp77]

You want science? Here you go:

http://www.familiesofaddiction.com/concept.htm

You actually did send me some stuff about synapses. Unfortunately, I am having a hard time understanding it because I have had too much Chianti. Ironic, huh?

I actually just took a quiz and it determined that I am a Light Drinker and should be cautious: You have scored within the Zone 2 risk level, which means you are slightly above the low-risk guidelines and may be at risk.

 

[joyfulgirl]

bsp77

But maybe the Chianti enabled you to chill out enough to begin this exploration and, see, you already learned something.

 

[bsp77]

bsp77

But maybe the Chianti enabled you to chill out enough to begin this exploration and, see, you already learned something.

Thanks! I will read it tomorrow morning, hopefully it will make sense then. I better go drink some water now because dehydration causes most hangovers, not withdrawal.