This is simply awful.

Naya · 07-07-2002, 01:09 PM

I read in the newspaper yesterday about an atrocious event that happened in Pakistan, last June. An 11 year old boy was seen walking in his village (without a chaperone)accompanied by a girl who was from a superior tribe than him, the Mastoi. The Mastoi tribe was outraged that this boy would dare be seen with someone who was from a superior caste and decided that a punishment was needed. They decided that his older 18 year old sister, Mukhtiar Mai, should be the one who had the be the victim of all of this, and decided that she would be gang raped by 4 men in front of the whole village. Mai pleaded to her assailants to let her go, saying that she had spent years teaching the Coran to the village's children but she couldn't escape. While she was gang raped the villagers were cheering. After this was over she had to go back to her home, naked while people were throwing insults at her. There has been 22 gang rapes this year in this Pakistani region of Punjab all in the name of "honor".

The Pakistani government was outraged and the president in charge of the "Women's development program" gave Mai a 1500$ cheque..(like this would make her all forget), and the Supreme Court are now planning on punishing those tribal "juries" that operate outside of the judiciary system....What took them so long?

foray · 07-07-2002, 01:22 PM

Sial betul.

foray

sulawesigirl4 · 07-07-2002, 01:36 PM

why oh why must women suffer for "crimes" that aren't crimes and which they didn't committ? men can be such animals. Castration wouldn't be good enough punishment.

bono-vox · 07-07-2002, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
why oh why must women suffer for "crimes" that aren't crimes and which they didn't committ? men can be such animals. Castration wouldn't be good enough punishment.

Thats ferocious and VERY wrong!!!!

madamc · 07-07-2002, 03:24 PM

shit like that makes me angry.

those man should have a hot rod shoved up their arses....and then...throw their bodies to the lions.

Miss MacPhisto · 07-07-2002, 04:14 PM

And people wonder why I think we should proceed with the cloning of humans until this is our only means of reproduction, causing the male species to become obsolete and eventually die out.

Lilly · 07-07-2002, 04:27 PM

i am absolutely speechless about this.

Naya · 07-07-2002, 06:42 PM

They should be hung by their testicles. Or they should be f***ed in the ass in front of a cheering crowd.

This type of humiliation to women goes on in many more countries and is much more current than I thought...

AliEnvy · 07-07-2002, 09:36 PM

As horrible as that event was, it was pretty tame compared to what happens to women in many countries in Africa, the middle East, India and Asia.

Women are routinely murdered and maimed at the hands of their husbands, fathers or borthers in many places to save face for family "honour".

And haven't you heard of female castration? Happens to young girls and women in some African countries as commonly as Jewish boys are circumcized.

Ok, my blood pressure is up, I'm off to lurk in PLEBA to calm down.....

foray · 07-08-2002, 01:28 AM

Well, the thing about female genital mutilation is that it's a coming-of-age pride thing. Some females in Africa actually claim that the more people protest against it, the more they want to do it.

foray

AcrobatMan · 07-08-2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AliEnvy
As horrible as that event was, it was pretty tame compared to what happens to women in many countries in Africa, the middle East, India and Asia.

Women are routinely murdered and maimed at the hands of their husbands, fathers or borthers in many places to save face for family "honour".

And haven't you heard of female castration? Happens to young girls and women in some African countries as commonly as Jewish boys are circumcized.

Ok, my blood pressure is up, I'm off to lurk in PLEBA to calm down.....

you must be drunk.. no point in dragging other countries..the root cause of these evils are the same as root cause of 9/11..i bet u dont know what "pretty tame" means do you ?

AliEnvy · 07-08-2002, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AcrobatMan
you must be drunk.. no point in dragging other countries..the root cause of these evils are the same as root cause of 9/11..i bet u dont know what "pretty tame" means do you ?

What are you smoking man??? LMFAO...pass it over...

AcrobatMan · 07-08-2002, 10:41 AM

I dont smoke

, go and read the Thread in which I said that couple of days ago

adamswildhoney · 07-08-2002, 10:45 AM

This is horrible! Im totally disgusted with how some people treat other people. It makes me very angry that things like this happen to innocent people!

daisybean · 07-08-2002, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by foray
Well, the thing about female genital mutilation is that it's a coming-of-age pride thing. Some females in Africa actually claim that the more people protest against it, the more they want to do it.

foray

While I am not one to critize another culture's beliefs, I do have a concern with this. Mainly the concern is that the practice itself is unsafe a lot of times. The use of dirty instruments and unsanitary conditions, people have died from infections simply because they did not use a sterilized knife, or take care of the "wound."

:attn:This is not to say that I agree with a young woman being forced against her will to have this "procedure" done. :attn:

While as a woman I am disgusted by the idea of gential mutilation, it is not my place to put down someone else's belief system. I think that if someone wants to do this more power to them, however, the way in which it is sometimes done can be deadly.

oliveu2cm · 07-08-2002, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foray
Well, the thing about female genital mutilation is that it's a coming-of-age pride thing. Some females in Africa actually claim that the more people protest against it, the more they want to do it.

foray

I find it very, very, very hard to believe there are informed females who still want this procedure done. Like Daisybean said, the instruments they use during these procedures are often unsanitary. As a matter of fact, the instrument mostly used is a razor blade. Razor blade which mutilates a woman who has had no anestesia. Many women have to be bound during the procedure, held by men or tied down. Many women do not even live through the intense bleeding which follows for days after the procedure.

I do believe some women believe their mothers or grandmothers in regards to this procedure. They are contaminated with lies that if they do not have this done then they cannot have children or a man will know she is unclean. These are sick lies and therefore I feel IF any woman said she wanted this done has clearly been lied to not able to decide on her own what she wants for her body.

I bet the things you hear that they want it more the more people protest it are lies spread by the dominating males of those cultures to get human rights activists off their backs.

It makes me sick, the whole thing makes me sick

if you want any more info:
http://www.rawa.org
http://www.vday.org

oliveu2cm · 07-08-2002, 01:01 PM

I wouldn't post some of the information at this link because it is quite graphic, but if you are interested in learning more about these cruel practices check here:

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm#a11

hiphop · 07-08-2002, 01:02 PM

Brilliant post, daisybean. Good point, foray.

It is always so difficult to get a position on those things, because these cultures are so far away and out of our imagination, that we can�t possibly imagine what is really wanted by who and for what reason.

The circumcission of boys, f.e., is also celebrated very often, it is a big thing; not comparable, for many reasons, with the first time we take the holy bread in church, but with a religious impact and lots of intensity.

If anyone wants some real information about those things, he must go there; at least consult an institute for ethnology if you want some reliable information. I don�t know that much. I am heavily interested in different spiritual procedures, like healing.

oliveu2cm · 07-08-2002, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

The circumcission of boys, f.e., is also celebrated very often, it is a big thing; not comparable, for many reasons, with the first time we take the holy bread in church, but with a religious impact and lots of intensity.

I understand what you are saying about the religious element. However---- female genital mutilation is not the same as being circumcised. I've never heard of a infant male dying from this, or not being able to feel pleasure from sex because of this.

please read the link I provided above- Just because it is the older people's customs does NOT mean it is right.

hiphop · 07-08-2002, 01:24 PM

Also true, Oliveu2, just because it is the Elders tradition doesn�t make it right. But right for who?

Look, you can be sure that I am the same women-and-freedom-and-independency-loving as anyone here. It is only a question from which view you watch those traditions. It is true, from my European (or your American?) point of view that these women should not be hurt or even killed. And sure, traditions which hurt, have to be changed.

But with whose power? They have to change it if they want to, not us, because we are so liberal or democratic or freedom loving. They have to change it, so that they get independency. More to stand on their own feet. But - also! - be careful with this, the unit "family" in african perception is a totally different one from first world perception of the same word.

I think those poor women should only somehow be assured that they have a free choice. But I would like if we would concentrate more on fighting hunger and AIDS. So many people die of hunger.
I know I change the theme now, just let me say, we can�t imagine how it is to be hungry. People in India or Africa can. I mean, shouldn�t we try to not eat anything for at least a week, and then see what we are able to discuss about with our oh-so-free-minds? We are so openminded because we can afford it.

So - sorry, but I don�t click your links. First, because I can imagine clearly enough without seeing, second because I think the Internet is not a first hand selective information system for this theme.

07-07-2002, 01:09 PM	#1
Naya Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brisbane (with Montreal in my heart!) Posts: 2,142 Local Time: 10:14 PM	This is simply awful. I read in the newspaper yesterday about an atrocious event that happened in Pakistan, last June. An 11 year old boy was seen walking in his village (without a chaperone)accompanied by a girl who was from a superior tribe than him, the Mastoi. The Mastoi tribe was outraged that this boy would dare be seen with someone who was from a superior caste and decided that a punishment was needed. They decided that his older 18 year old sister, Mukhtiar Mai, should be the one who had the be the victim of all of this, and decided that she would be gang raped by 4 men in front of the whole village. Mai pleaded to her assailants to let her go, saying that she had spent years teaching the Coran to the village's children but she couldn't escape. While she was gang raped the villagers were cheering. After this was over she had to go back to her home, naked while people were throwing insults at her. There has been 22 gang rapes this year in this Pakistani region of Punjab all in the name of "honor". The Pakistani government was outraged and the president in charge of the "Women's development program" gave Mai a 1500$ cheque..(like this would make her all forget), and the Supreme Court are now planning on punishing those tribal "juries" that operate outside of the judiciary system....What took them so long? __________________

07-07-2002, 01:22 PM	#2
foray Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: full of sound and fury Posts: 3,386 Local Time: 04:14 PM	Sial betul. foray __________________

07-07-2002, 03:24 PM	#5
madamc Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,428 Local Time: 10:14 PM	fucking retards shit like that makes me angry. those man should have a hot rod shoved up their arses....and then...throw their bodies to the lions.

07-07-2002, 04:14 PM	#6
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 07:14 PM	Why does this not surprise me? And people wonder why I think we should proceed with the cloning of humans until this is our only means of reproduction, causing the male species to become obsolete and eventually die out. __________________ ".....People of America - SHUSH-........." "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you... ^^ Life's a bitch, so i became one ^^

07-07-2002, 04:27 PM	#7
Lilly Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: back and to the left Posts: 8,523 Local Time: 09:14 PM	fucking retards indeed i am absolutely speechless about this.

07-07-2002, 01:36 PM	#3
sulawesigirl4 Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,416 Local Time: 10:14 PM	why oh why must women suffer for "crimes" that aren't crimes and which they didn't committ? men can be such animals. Castration wouldn't be good enough punishment.

07-07-2002, 06:42 PM	#8
Naya Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brisbane (with Montreal in my heart!) Posts: 2,142 Local Time: 10:14 PM	They should be hung by their testicles. Or they should be f***ed in the ass in front of a cheering crowd. This type of humiliation to women goes on in many more countries and is much more current than I thought...

07-07-2002, 09:36 PM	#9
AliEnvy Refugee Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,320 Local Time: 03:14 AM	As horrible as that event was, it was pretty tame compared to what happens to women in many countries in Africa, the middle East, India and Asia. Women are routinely murdered and maimed at the hands of their husbands, fathers or borthers in many places to save face for family "honour". And haven't you heard of female castration? Happens to young girls and women in some African countries as commonly as Jewish boys are circumcized. Ok, my blood pressure is up, I'm off to lurk in PLEBA to calm down.....

07-08-2002, 01:28 AM	#10
foray Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: full of sound and fury Posts: 3,386 Local Time: 04:14 PM	Well, the thing about female genital mutilation is that it's a coming-of-age pride thing. Some females in Africa actually claim that the more people protest against it, the more they want to do it. foray

07-08-2002, 10:41 AM	#13
AcrobatMan Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Song of the week "sentimental" by Porcupine Tree Posts: 3,854 Local Time: 03:14 AM	I dont smoke , go and read the Thread in which I said that couple of days ago

07-08-2002, 10:45 AM	#14
adamswildhoney ONE love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere in NorCal Posts: 10,333 Local Time: 07:14 PM	This is horrible! Im totally disgusted with how some people treat other people. It makes me very angry that things like this happen to innocent people!

07-08-2002, 01:01 PM	#17
oliveu2cm Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Live from Boston Posts: 8,334 Local Time: 11:14 PM	I wouldn't post some of the information at this link because it is quite graphic, but if you are interested in learning more about these cruel practices check here: http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm#a11

07-08-2002, 01:02 PM	#18
hiphop Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in the jungle Posts: 7,410 Local Time: 05:14 AM	Brilliant post, daisybean. Good point, foray. It is always so difficult to get a position on those things, because these cultures are so far away and out of our imagination, that we can�t possibly imagine what is really wanted by who and for what reason. The circumcission of boys, f.e., is also celebrated very often, it is a big thing; not comparable, for many reasons, with the first time we take the holy bread in church, but with a religious impact and lots of intensity. If anyone wants some real information about those things, he must go there; at least consult an institute for ethnology if you want some reliable information. I don�t know that much. I am heavily interested in different spiritual procedures, like healing.

07-08-2002, 01:24 PM	#20
hiphop Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in the jungle Posts: 7,410 Local Time: 05:14 AM	Also true, Oliveu2, just because it is the Elders tradition doesn�t make it right. But right for who? Look, you can be sure that I am the same women-and-freedom-and-independency-loving as anyone here. It is only a question from which view you watch those traditions. It is true, from my European (or your American?) point of view that these women should not be hurt or even killed. And sure, traditions which hurt, have to be changed. But with whose power? They have to change it if they want to, not us, because we are so liberal or democratic or freedom loving. They have to change it, so that they get independency. More to stand on their own feet. But - also! - be careful with this, the unit "family" in african perception is a totally different one from first world perception of the same word. I think those poor women should only somehow be assured that they have a free choice. But I would like if we would concentrate more on fighting hunger and AIDS. So many people die of hunger. I know I change the theme now, just let me say, we can�t imagine how it is to be hungry. People in India or Africa can. I mean, shouldn�t we try to not eat anything for at least a week, and then see what we are able to discuss about with our oh-so-free-minds? We are so openminded because we can afford it. So - sorry, but I don�t click your links. First, because I can imagine clearly enough without seeing, second because I think the Internet is not a first hand selective information system for this theme. __________________

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