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Old 07-12-2002, 08:30 PM   #41
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Hey Foray,

I didn't think you were supporting it, but anytime people try to justify this it makes me a little uneasy.

Anyway I think this is comparing apples & oranges. The draft has happened twice (I believe) in its history; FGM happens to nearly (if not every) women in these cultures. They do not have the freedoms we have to get something changed if we do not like it. They don't even have the freedoms to show their face in public.

I don't have enough facts to argue/discuss the draft issue, but I do not think you can compare the two, one doesn't make the other "right" or cancel the severity of the other.

_Olive
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Old 07-12-2002, 09:41 PM   #42
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The more I learn about the "dark side" of various cultures around the world, the more "culturally intolerant" I become.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-15-2002, 12:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
The more I learn about the "dark side" of various cultures around the world, the more "culturally intolerant" I become.

~U2Alabama
Then you should remind yourself that there are "light sides". I´m not talking of outweighing there, and I am not saying you should tolerate practices as stated above. But I think intolerance is not the right way, it won´t make things any better. I know many African people who are against those practices.

But half-heartedly, I can follow what you say - it´s just that I see a complex of cultures differently. I have been accused of being intolerant towards America, being the country that was involved in over 90% of armed conflicts throughout the world in the year 2000. I think we can speak of a certain culture in policy here, too (even if I´m far from comparing soldiers and women). But I still respect America for a lot of things, like stated in one of my earlier posts.

Consider yourself lucky that you can afford to push your "cultural intolerance", that our counties are so rich.

Ok, now it´s stupid comparison time again, gets a classic on Interferencer´s discussions (this one´s especially 4 Bubba, my metaphoric love ).

Imagine that Africans say:

"Oh, look how degenerated the American culture is, for its way of dealing with food. Look at how animals are treated. Do they ask them a simple sorry before they kill them cruelly? Nooo. Do they ask them if they are allowed to kill them to provide necessary food for their family? Nooo. They come neatly prepackaged, they´re unable to touch blood! And imagine... wohohoooo... they even have pets! They make a distinction between their beloved dog and the bull going into the next Big Mac! Now isn´t this a bewildering, cruel culture."

Now, if Africa is looking at us mildly bewildered, ok. If Africans form Anti-McDonalds ProAnimals groups, ok (needless to say they won´t do that because they really have other things to worry about, f.e. not to starve). If they try to change things slowly, to explain, to educate f.e. for different forms of dealing with food production, beautiful. Like us vice versa.

But if they condemned all America, every American, the American culture, they would be wrong, wouldn´t they? Apart from the differences in strength between the two powers, that I´m not going to lay out here, because everyone knows, and the extreme thievery of resources practised by our western world in Africa.

To jump back to the original theme: Even if some things go, in our opinion, the wrong way in Africa, this continent doesn´t deserve "cultural" or any other intolerance, but deserves our help (and not our "cultural", but our financial help - - - which doesn´t include foreign direct investment).
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:14 PM   #44
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I stand corrected.

I guess I was looking at it the same way I live my life. I am not perfect and I have faults. But if I am at the grocery store and I see a guy beating up his wife and/or kids, I will do something to stop it.

I view cultures the same way. Western culture admittedly has problems; I will not claim that it is innocent. But rather than accepting the attrocities committed under the excuse/cover of "culture" and "tradition," I think that, as a good friend once said, "maybe it is the culture that needs some improvement."

Perhaps I should have worded my initial statement differently; it is not the entire culture of any group that I am intolerant of, but there are many cultures that continue acts that I do not tolerate, or "accept." I will never tolerate genital mutilation, "honor killings," execution of "apostates," dimmi systems, caste systems, "racial supremacy," suppression of women/amputees/gays/the list goes on, etc.

~U2Alabama
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Old 07-15-2002, 07:59 PM   #45
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This is horrible! Im totally disgusted with how some people treat other people. It makes me very angry that things like this happen to innocent people!

Me too. That's all I can say. It's an atrocity.
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