This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

[U2isthebest]

http://www.motherjones.com/interview/2006/12/jaybakker.html

I've always loved his mom and dad, regardless of what people say about them. His mother especially is such an example of true godly woman the best way she knew how; by being who she is.

I'm glad he's following her example. I hope to hear a lot more from him in the future. All I can say is thank God for using people like Jaime who know how to love unconditonally without judgement. That's what my Bible says love is.

 

[BVS]

Well I'm no fan of his parents but I like this article.

 

[coemgen]

Yeah, he's doing some cool things.

 

[maycocksean]

As a Christian, this is one of the most encouraging articles I've read in a very long time.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Coincidentally, I saw him on Larry King last night. He was great! Just a cool regular guy. But he didn't talk about his faith, it was about his mother who's dying of cancer. Poor Tammy Faye was on the show weighing 65 lbs and in her own scary way, kind of radiant and wonderful. She broke my heart a little bit. Despite my distaste for evangelicals in general, Tammy Faye is a great lady. She was just about the first person to ever publicly talk about AIDs back in the early 80s and embraced gays like no evangelical has ever done since. You just have to love Tammy Faye.

 

[Irvine511]

^ i saw that too. my landlord and i were *shocked* at Tammy Faye's appearance. the poor thing. her son seems cool, and though she was before my time, i do appreciate that she acknowledge the AIDS crisis long before Reagan did.

 

[joyfulgirl]

^ Yeah, it was totally shocking. I don't know how she has the strength to smile, let alone be a talk show guest.

So I just actually read the article on Jay Bakker and he's very cool. Some quotes I like:

[Punk’s] loyalty and not conforming to what everyone else is into—that’s definitely something that we are. That’s who Jesus was. He was crucified, in my opinion, because he didn’t conform; he loved everybody. He was inclusive rather than exclusive. And that made a lot of people angry. That’s the way I try to live. I don’t probably live that way all the time, but I try to.

MJ.com: You preached about Ted Haggard a few weeks ago. What was your response to his scandal?

JB: Well, my response was that we may not see eye-to-eye with this guy, but he deserves to be restored. He deserves to be loved and helped. To me, it was sad because I felt like he was automatically kicked out of the church. Why do we keep doing this, when the church is about forgiveness? Jesus explains that the church is like a hospital. But this hospital doesn’t want to let any sick people in.

 

[U2isthebest]

^^^LOVED those! He's absolutely right.

Here's a link to his church's website, http://www.revolutionnyc.com/

 

[corianderstem]

Tammy Faye has died.

 

[anitram]

Wow, that was pretty surprising to me. She looked terrible on Larry King this week, but not terrible enough that I thought she'd die within a couple of days. I think she was suffering quite a lot though.

 

[U2democrat]

Wow, that was pretty surprising to me. She looked terrible on Larry King this week, but not terrible enough that I thought she'd die within a couple of days. I think she was suffering quite a lot though.

Odd, because watching that interview creeped me out because I felt like I was watching her last moments. It seriously disturbed me to see that.


RIP Tammy.

 

[anitram]

Odd, because watching that interview creeped me out because I felt like I was watching her last moments. It seriously disturbed me to see that.

Really? I guess when my grandmother died a couple of months ago, she wasn't able to speak for a couple of weeks and was just lying there, wasting away. So to me, Tammy Faye looked rather lively in comparison.

 

[U2isthebest]

RIP Tammy, I'll miss you.

 

[U2democrat]

Really? I guess when my grandmother died a couple of months ago, she wasn't able to speak for a couple of weeks and was just lying there, wasting away. So to me, Tammy Faye looked rather lively in comparison.

That's understandable.


I'm normally the least squeamish person, I can stomach anything, but when that interview was on I had to look away and beg my Mom to change the channel, I couldn't stand watching someone who, as I said, looked so weak like they could die at any moment. It's going to be hard to take that image out of my head.

 

[the iron horse]

AP:
Jul 21, 10:22 PM EDT

Tammy Faye Messner Dies at 65
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBIT_TAMMY_FAYE_MESSNER?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

 

[the iron horse]

http://www.motherjones.com/interview/2006/12/jaybakker.html

I've always loved his mom and dad, regardless of what people say about them. His mother especially is such an example of true godly woman the best way she knew how; by being who she is.

I'm glad he's following her example. I hope to hear a lot more from him in the future. All I can say is thank God for using people like Jaime who know how to love unconditonally without judgement. That's what my Bible says love is.

The Bible also has a lot to say about sin.

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

I'm just saying that Jaime Baker is not, too me, some great leader I should follow for 'true Christainity.'

That T. J. Jakes or whatever his name is...

I don't follow him either.
Beware of TV Religion :eek





Once a rebel came from Narzareth >>>>

 

[U2isthebest]

I don't "follow" him, but we all have to have people we look up to in some sense to help guide us on our faith walk. Jaime and T.D. Jakes happen to be a couple of mine. I happen to feel similar to Jaime on the issue of homosexuality, and I really am not interested in any self-righteous ass's take on my opinion. I've felt that way for quite some time now, and I can say that Jaime had nothing to do with it. I was just listening to Jaime's messages where he talks extensively about this issue, and he said what I've always thought: In the end who really cares what I, or you, or anyone else thinks of this issue? I'm saved because I belive Jesus died for my sins, not for my stance on any political/social issue. (Please don't think I'm referring to you with that! I'm not! That's just a general statement about a lot of the Christian world)

 

[maycocksean]

Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

The Bible also has a lot to say about sin.

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

I'm just saying that Jaime Baker is not, too me, some great leader I should follow for 'true Christainity.'

That T. J. Jakes or whatever his name is...

I don't follow him either.
Beware of TV Religion :eek





Once a rebel came from Narzareth >>>>

Do you have any other issues with Bakker beyond his "gay-affirming" church? The vibe I got from that interview with him was not at all the TV Religion vibe or the T.D. Jakes vibe (though I know nothing about Jakes, I suppose he's more the big megachurch, picture of him plastered on a billboard plus best-selling book type, at least based on appearance. . .which of course is a horrible way to judge. . .at any rate I didn't get the impression that Bakker was anything like that).

 

[phillyfan26]

Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

Well, you're opening that can of worms by making a bold, misinterpreted statement like that.

 

[maycocksean]

Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

And can I just say that I find it really frustrating, the implication here that people like Bakker are taking this stand because "they don't care about sin."

It should be quite clear from Bakker's interview that his stand is NOT based on lackadaisical view of sin. . .He's taken the stand he has because to take any other stand, in his view, WOULD be sin. It would be wrong and he cannot violate his conscience, what he believes God is telling him to do.

Now you can argue that he's mistaken and maybe he is (and maybe he isn't). But lets not have this pablum about not telling the truth about sin.

 

[U2isthebest]

Re: Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

And can I just say that I find it really frustrating, the implication here that people like Bakker are taking this stand because "they don't care about sin."

It should be quite clear from Bakker's interview that his stand is NOT based on lackadaisical view of sin. . .He's taken the stand he has because to take any other stand, in his view, WOULD be sin. It would be wrong and he cannot violate his conscience, what he believes God is telling him to do.

Now you can argue that he's mistaken and maybe he is (and maybe he isn't). But lets not have this pablum about not telling the truth about sin.

You took the words right out of my mouth; just in a more eloquent yet simple way.

 

[anitram]

A while ago I began to believe that the entire notion of sin is kind of nonsensical to me. Don't believe in it, and don't believe in hell either.

 

[Irvine511]

Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

Jaime's mistake, in my view, is not reaching out and loving homosexuals, but not telling the truth about sin.

Homosexuality is clearly defined, in my reading and understanding, as a sin according to the scriptures.

I realize that many here will disagree andI hope this thread does not dissolve into a debate on homosexuality. I'm just stating my belief, not trying to convince anyone.

and your little rebel from Nazareth would be *embarassed* at your misreading and misrepresentation of the Bible.

after all, Jesus had so much to say about gay people.

so i'll say it point blank: your belief is a misformulation based upon centuries of prejudice, and within my lifetime, you'll be backing away from such assertions in the same way that Christians now back away from long-ago beliefs about the Bible supporting slavery and opposing interracial marriage. so, my advice is to get it over with and repent and apologize and understand that the "biblical" view on a 100% natural sexual orientation that (shock! horror!) might be different from your own is not sinful, is not shameful, the Bible -- which, for goodness sakes, warns against mixing different strands of fabrics -- says *nothing* about any sort of contemporary understanding of a gay identity and a gay relationship, and that gay people are no more moral or immoral than straight people.

i'm trying to help you out. trust me, you'll thank me for this.

oh, RIP Tammy Faye.

 

[DrTeeth]

A while ago I began to believe that the entire notion of sin is kind of nonsensical to me. Don't believe in it, and don't believe in hell either.

Same here really. I can't shake the feeling that the notions of sin and hell are 'concocted' solely to give credence to the need for a saviour. I find it difficult to see them as anything else than fine pieces of marketing.

 

[Irvine511]

"sin" is how the powerful keep the powerless in line.

 

[LemonMelon]

"sin" is how the powerful keep the powerless in line.

Yeah, moving on...

The only way you could "misinterpret" the Bible's view of homosexuality is if you're illiterate. Honestly, it's right in there. People's fear of admitting what is in there is part of our conditioning by the media and society in general to compromise our beliefs if they're too radical or just not PC enough. My Bible says to love thy neighbor, even if they're gay. Guess what, that means I'm supposed to love them enough to tell them what the rest of the Bible says too, to keep them from burning in Hell. And honestly, don't get mad at me for saying that; I'm not the one who wrote the Bible. "Love" is too often misinterpreted as being nice or kissing ass, but, according to Jesus himself, the greatest love is laying down your life for your friends (John 15:13), which sometimes involves putting yourself in a position to be called a hateful bastard, for the sake of telling them the truth.

Word up, bitches.

 

[indra]

^

You are kidding, aren't you?

 

[LemonMelon]

Re: Re: Re: This guy gives me hope for the future of true Christianity

and your little rebel from Nazareth would be *embarassed* at your misreading and misrepresentation of the Bible.

after all, Jesus had so much to say about gay people.

so i'll say it point blank: your belief is a misformulation based upon centuries of prejudice, and within my lifetime, you'll be backing away from such assertions in the same way that Christians now back away from long-ago beliefs about the Bible supporting slavery and opposing interracial marriage. so, my advice is to get it over with and repent and apologize and understand that the "biblical" view on a 100% natural sexual orientation that (shock! horror!) might be different from your own is not sinful, is not shameful, the Bible -- which, for goodness sakes, warns against mixing different strands of fabrics -- says *nothing* about any sort of contemporary understanding of a gay identity and a gay relationship, and that gay people are no more moral or immoral than straight people.

Ridiculous. Honestly, this is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

What does this mean to you?

THAT OLD TESTAMENT BOOK STILL APPLIES.

I don't make life decisions that God would not approve of simply because there's not an exact scripture that relates to my situation. There's a pretty broad HOMOSEXUALITY = BAD near the beginning of the book that, apparently, Jesus did not wish to argue with.

Your interpretation of the Bible is made through tinted glasses. I don't care if you think the whole thing is a damn fairytale, but please interpret it correctly so you don't mislead anyone. I have no idea why you're arguing in a Christian thread when you are not even a Christian anyway.

 

[indra]

hmm...I guess you aren't kidding. You're just wrong.

Kind of sad to see such ignorance in one so young.

 

[BVS]

I'm appalled at some of these "christian" reactions...

You should be ashamed of yourselves...