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#1 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
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Theists are Stupid
Quote:
Causation or correlation, I think it is easier to dismiss God as irrelevant critically than to justify it. Not to box people in but many posters who are "religious" don't seem to believe in an interventionist personal God; they don't seem to bother with the negative parts of their religious texts; people that adopt what they consider the positive teachings of Jesus but don't need to get tied down with justifying miracles or resurrections. Having framed this group with such a broad borderline agnostic brush I think thats a good thing, I much prefer people tailoring their religion to their innate morality than twisting their morality around religious belief. The secondary issue of religious belief and being a good scientist is more interesting to me. I have a rather positivist outlook on the world and I have no problem reconciling my beliefs with what is known about the world. My position in regards to God is that there is no cause to suppose God, that such an actor isn't necessary to explain the universe or personal morality. It is possible that God exists but I am effectively atheistic. I think it is different for a scientist who is also religious, they can't allow their beliefs to effect their work but their work must inevitably impact their beliefs. I can think of the example of a perfectly competent PhD candidate studying fossil fish who also happened to be a Young Earth Creationist. I can't fathom the mind-bending involved in trying to write a proper scientific thesis while believing in such nonsense. He didn't reach the conclusion that God created the Earth and every animal six thousand years ago from the evidence, he held that belief system from childhood and held onto it even though as a hypothesis it is about as wrong as any statement can be. It isn't that intelligent people can't hold religious beliefs, it's that they can and have to justify those beliefs to their own intelligence. In general intelligence can allow people to think critically and that can create a lot of agnostics (I am [i]technically[i] an agnostic; although I have more acceptance of the martian teapot claim than a guiding intelligence). Intelligence can also allow people to justify pre-conceived absurdities. It may not be that atheists are just smarter than other people, it may be that smart people have more trouble accepting religion and possibly spirituality (which is a separate issue). |
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#2 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I wonder sometimes if belief in a God is less a need for God than it is a desire for the comfort of ritual (and socialized ritual) which cuts across the intelligence spectrum.
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#3 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Jan 2006
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Are you trying to pick a fight with us Theists, A_W?
Well, you won't get one from me. My brother is way more intelligent than I am and. . . yes, he's an atheist. ![]() Still, as Mrs. S says, some believers are EVEN intelligent and rationale. I do believe in a personal interventionist God. I believe the resurrection and the miracles and all that (It's kind of absurd to dismiss the resurrection and the miracles and yet still insist on believing in a scientifically unprovable God in my book. I'm not saying that those who have this kind of belief are absurd. I'm just saying it's absurd to INSIST that one must dismiss the miraculous on scientific grounds when one continues to believe in God). Your point about the Young Earth scientist is well taken though, and it's why I'm no longer stuck to the idea of a six day Creation. I think scientists who accept evolution but still believe in God (and yes even Jesus and all that) are more problematic to your view of the prime motivator for belief--the kind of childish awe and wonder about things we can't understand. I've said before and will continue to argue that religion for most people (though not all--apparently not for you) is not merely about explaining phenomena. One other thought. . .intelligence is great but intelligence doesn't make you a "better" or "worse" human being. If only the reason for all the horrible things humanity has done to itself was simply that people were dumb. |
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#4 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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Quote:
I can't speak for anyone else. |
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#5 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I don't think that is the sole reason. Nor do I think it is the prime motivator in the genuinely religious. I think it is one motivation for the quasi religious and I think for a lot of people who wouldn't call themselves religious at all, but like the ritual of it. I think you sometimes find something like that in former believers like me who no longer miss belief in god, but still search for some kind of ritual--as irrational as that sounds.
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#6 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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Quote:
True. Though to be honest it amazes me that people get that much out of the ritual of it. For me a lot of the time the ritual is just a pain in the ass! ![]() |
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#7 |
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Sometimes I think that those really smart people that deny God just have a hard time accepting someone smarter than them.
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#8 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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#9 |
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
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#10 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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Weelll, it depends on who you talk to. Everybody wants to claim Einstein for their themselves--the atheists want him, the believers want him, the agnostics--everybody. And really, who wouldn't?
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#11 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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#12 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
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#13 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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#14 | ||||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Quote:
His wikipedia article had this quote Quote:
On being claimed as theistic Quote:
Agnosticism is the only position science can take in regards to God, it is unsurprising that a man as intelligent and considered as Einstein would hold it. It's also funny that the likes of Richard Dawkins, who holds a very similar position but is outspoken about it gets mischaracterised as somehow the equal but opposite of a religious zealot. Faith is affirming in the absence of evidence, unbelieving is not a faith-based religious position. I would like to see an example of an atheist that has certainty and faith that God doesn't exist. |
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#15 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
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Identity is important to people, so is family, I wouldn't doubt that religion caters to peoples need for both these things, it couldn't exist if it didn't.
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#16 | |
Blue Crack Addict
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Quote:
My in-laws are in somewhat of a fight right now about church and what the purpose of church is. I really believe that church (as in, the community of people + the building/compound) is more of a socio-economic thing than a spiritual thing. Everyone is always asking why people in my generation don't seem to care as much about church anymore...because we don't *need* to. Unlike my grandma who was an uneducated housewife, I have a career, friends, and hobbies outside of my own nuclear family and my church activities. I don't need (and wouldn't get) financial support from a church and I have plenty of good friends (Christian and non-Christian) that I've met through school, work, and extracurricular activities. If a god in fact exists I do believe there is sufficient evidence in creation alone and that all the dogma and institutional religion is not necessary to simply believe in such a god. (Calvinism - General Revelation) (I say these things as a Christian believing in God) |
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#17 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Quote:
I don't believe in any link between religious belief and intelligence. There are plenty of religious believers who are quite intelligent, plenty who aren't, plenty of non believers who are and aren't. It's an individual thing, not a religious thing. And sometimes belief is more of a heart thing than a head thing. Not everything has to be seen to be believed. |
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#18 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
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#19 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2005
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I just would like to throw in that not believing in a God doesn't necessarily equates denying him.
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#20 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004
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To take a contrarian point of view on this.....if the religious are generally happier than atheists, and they seem to be, frankly - then those who convince themselves that there is a benevolent interventionist deity could be seen as MORE intelligent.
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