TheU2 said:
What is the point of this post? What does this have to do with Baker?
I?m I just confused or are you stupid.
I believe Lemonite was at least conceding to my main point that making a drug illegal increases its value.
Lemonite said:
The War on Drugs is STUPID.
- Thread starter baker6621
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What is the point of this post? What does this have to do with Baker?
I?m I just confused or are you stupid.
I believe Lemonite was at least conceding to my main point that making a drug illegal increases its value.
doctorwho
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
KevM said:
I agree. CK, there's no need to slam Baker here. Granted, KevM did that to you, but only in retaliation. But at least KevM further his point, albeit briefly; whereas, you just posted to insult Baker. There's no need for that. I think we can have a very strong debate about the pros and cons of this issue without resulting to insulting someone's intelligence or age.
As for my views... I've long felt that drugs should be decriminalized - that is, go after the dealers only, not the user. Of course, there should be a limit there. If a person has X amount of drugs in his/her possession, that can be considered a criminal "dealer" amount. But no longer should people be arrested for having a joint in their possession. I also feel that marijuana laws, especially with respect to easing the pain of cancer and AIDS patients, should be seriously reviewed.
I'm not saying I suddenly want to see marijuana ads next to the cigarette ads in magazines (can you imagine? LOL!), but I also think far too much effort, money and court time is used on the anit-drug effort without any corresponding results being observed. While I do not have facts in front of me, I'd be VERY surprised to see drug use down because of the anti-drug effort.
Baker's comments about the current anti-drug ads being ineffective are VERY valid. Here is a young man saying that he is almost tempted to take drugs because of an ad on TV. The very demographic these ads are targeting are laughing at these ads - and are claiming that, if anything, they now want to try drugs because of the ads! Scary, no? I read recently that several anti-smoking ads are causing the same response. Teens now WANT to smoke because of the ads. To reiterate, Baker's comments are something that we should listen to carefully. Maybe legalizing all drugs, as is his suggestion, isn't the answer, but at least he is presenting his views, the problems and a possible solution. Seems like a well presented post to me. So rather than insult him on his youth, if you disagree, I feel a suitable post should be made to counter his claims.
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
TheU2 said:
People take notes.. This is Funny.. Note the Simplicity of it.. It's Sheer Genius.. I mean, with a few words he is able to Dump a Gigantic Shit in this Man's Rear View Mirror.
Go Irish.
L.Unplugged
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doctorwho
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Lemonite said:
The day I understand what the f*ck any of your posts mean, is the day ND football will finally regain their old glory.
*cheer, cheer for ol' Notre Dame...
U2002revolution!
War Child
i agree about hearing it from ppl that truly know....but sometimes that still doesn't have an effect.
cocaine is huge @ my school, my school is one of the/if not the biggest drug/police incident school in tucson and its a pretty well off school in a good part of town *shrug*
cocaine is huge @ my school, my school is one of the/if not the biggest drug/police incident school in tucson and its a pretty well off school in a good part of town *shrug*
Citric
The Fly
notiti said:
In one of those US informative surveys, teens who smoke marijuana are around 85 more times likely to use cocaine, than those who don't. Because of a few programs in school, I'm bound to know facts like that which are totally useless except when trying to prove your point in a FYM argument. When deciding to do drugs, I doubt teens are going to think to themselves about survey-facts. If you want more facts about how MJ leads to stronger drugs in the US, I'm sure I could find them. But seriously, how many people who are doing potent drugs have never smoked marijuana? Marijuana doesn't just keep people 'occupied' and lazy to find drugs with a more powerful inducing-high.
This is turning into a 'consequences of marijuana' thread rather than a war against drugs thread. It comes down to morals, and what people are willing to risk. The fact that marijuana is illegal is a turn-off to some people. That's fairly important. Of course, we could always just throw statistics at each other. But the question being asked is what is the government supposed to do? And I don't have a good answer to that.
gvox
Ghost of Love
drugs drugs drugs
Woo Hoo! Go away for a few days and look what tired old argument resurfaces...LOL...
Baker dude, I just cant get over your original rant...like were you high or something? And I dont mean on MJ...lol...
I agree with Citric on some stuff and others who say that weed should be decriminalized. Forget the slippery slope hype that the just say no types love to spout...I smoked weed for 13 years and never felt the urge to try coke or anything else, and I had ready and free access to it (another time, another place we'll discuss that one maybe). Well a did pop a couple (and I mean like 3) ecstasy pills over the space of about a year but that had more to do with wanting to get my freak on with a bunch of other horny ppls who were on it..LOL...
Having said that, a few weeks ago something happened to me and I just decided that I was gonna give it a rest for a while (basically used to smoke on average one joint per day). Havent smoked in 3 weeks, unless you count the two puffs I took on Saturday night when Lewis (YAY) pounded the snot out of washup-rapist-ear-biter Mike Tyson...
But I guess 13 years of smoking every day wasnt enough to get me addicted...LOL...
I'd just like to see a 'war on drugs' discussion where weed doesn't even get mentioned...lets talk about the really harmful stuff!
Woo Hoo! Go away for a few days and look what tired old argument resurfaces...LOL...
Baker dude, I just cant get over your original rant...like were you high or something? And I dont mean on MJ...lol...
I agree with Citric on some stuff and others who say that weed should be decriminalized. Forget the slippery slope hype that the just say no types love to spout...I smoked weed for 13 years and never felt the urge to try coke or anything else, and I had ready and free access to it (another time, another place we'll discuss that one maybe). Well a did pop a couple (and I mean like 3) ecstasy pills over the space of about a year but that had more to do with wanting to get my freak on with a bunch of other horny ppls who were on it..LOL...
Having said that, a few weeks ago something happened to me and I just decided that I was gonna give it a rest for a while (basically used to smoke on average one joint per day). Havent smoked in 3 weeks, unless you count the two puffs I took on Saturday night when Lewis (YAY) pounded the snot out of washup-rapist-ear-biter Mike Tyson...
But I guess 13 years of smoking every day wasnt enough to get me addicted...LOL...
I'd just like to see a 'war on drugs' discussion where weed doesn't even get mentioned...lets talk about the really harmful stuff!
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Re: drugs drugs drugs
That?s a very interesting comment. I know for the most part marijuana is the safest form of drug but consider this,
I?ve watched a very close friend almost die from alcohol poisoning ? to see them and not able to do anything about it but call 911.
I?ve watched several close friends undergo a very very scary and rough outing with a stash of marijuana that was spiked and those unsuspecting people going on a very rough journey.
So to say leave the discussion to the really harmful stuff is interesting because although you wouldn?t expect it, it CAN be just as harmful as other drugs and maybe some of you will say trust your supplier or know who you are getting your stuff from etc., but to that I?ll say that in this case, the supplier was a close friend who apparently knew not what he had?
Sorry just a comment, no drug is totally harmless if you ask me. I?m not saintly when it comes to this stuff but I have seen some ugly things happen for just having some harmless weed?
gabrielvox said:
That?s a very interesting comment. I know for the most part marijuana is the safest form of drug but consider this,
I?ve watched a very close friend almost die from alcohol poisoning ? to see them and not able to do anything about it but call 911.
I?ve watched several close friends undergo a very very scary and rough outing with a stash of marijuana that was spiked and those unsuspecting people going on a very rough journey.
So to say leave the discussion to the really harmful stuff is interesting because although you wouldn?t expect it, it CAN be just as harmful as other drugs and maybe some of you will say trust your supplier or know who you are getting your stuff from etc., but to that I?ll say that in this case, the supplier was a close friend who apparently knew not what he had?
Sorry just a comment, no drug is totally harmless if you ask me. I?m not saintly when it comes to this stuff but I have seen some ugly things happen for just having some harmless weed?
After Prohibition ended and alcohol became legal again, consumption levels skyrocketed by 300%! While the Netherlands has had success in its drug program, the United States in some ways is a different culture. I feel that a similar program in the USA could lead to mass consumption similar to the end of prohibition. The problem in the USA is also one that is cultural. I don't think you find the same obsession and quest for alcohol among underage students in the Netherlands that you see in childern in the USA. I'm sure this could be changed eventually, but I think it would take two or three generations and a lot of chaos. The reasons these drugs remain illegal is that people fear how a 300% increase in drug use would effect society.
bonoman
Refugee
STING2 said:
You gotta be joking me. If you think that teenage drinking is only happening in the US then you are sadly not looking very hard. The only reason underage drinking is higher in the US is because they, for some reason, see that at 21 you should start drinking (but can start smoking at 18) If you go to many europeon countries you will see many underage people drinking. But there drinking is much more social and is under parent supervision.
First off, I was only comparing the USA to the Netherlands! Second, my observations are based on what I have seen in Ireland, Scotland, England, and conversations with friends that I have in Italy. I know it is so with those countries, but if the Netherlands is different than Italy or England and there is a huge compulsion by childern in the Netherlands to drink like the USA, please tell me about it.
baker6621 said:
hey!! i like that game!!
gabrielvox said:
yeah, i know what you mean. i wish people would stop rehashing old arguments on here. i guess he just got pissed cuz of the polls about how often people do them, and if people do them at all. my guess is that it stems from the harsh reaction he got from saying he couldn't understand how anyone can live without marijuana. which makes me wonder, if you think that, then you need help. wondering how others can't live without something is NOT a good thing.
gabrielvox said:
exactly! the problem is, is that you get the pro-marijuana (ehh, those who want to see it legalized or at least decriminalized) people who are on the crusade to see this happen. so when drugs come up, they latch onto marijuana and fail to mention things like heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, etc.
it is true, i don't think marijuana is as harmful as some of the things you can buy legally in america, and if it was legalized, hell, that'd be great. i still wouldn't smoke it, but i certainly wouldn't condemn those who smoke it or anything. however, it does bother me that the general public tends to "forget" about these other drugs if need be. they only bring them up when a string of deaths related to a drug come up. THEN they become harmful killers. i guess the government figures if they stop mentioning it, everything else will go away?
i dunno...
ghetofabu
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
baker6621 said:
Not for nothing, but that is a common missconception that we get most of our oil from the middle east.
U.S. domestic oil production supplies about 50% of total U.S. consumption. Foreign sources provide the other 50%, primarily Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, and several African countries. The U.S. is strongly committed to protecting Gulf oil, although only about 10% of oil used in the U.S. is imported from the region.
Lemonite
I'm a chauvinist leprechaun
Re: Re: The War on Drugs is STUPID.
Ah.. Great point.. This Oil of the Saudi's that they are apparently holding us hostage over .. Some Great Amount that we are led to believe we will be shorted a catastrophic amount if we side with Israel One More Time in that Debacle.. That Ri- Cock- U- Lous Amount is 8 percent.
L.Unplugged
ghetofabu said:
Ah.. Great point.. This Oil of the Saudi's that they are apparently holding us hostage over .. Some Great Amount that we are led to believe we will be shorted a catastrophic amount if we side with Israel One More Time in that Debacle.. That Ri- Cock- U- Lous Amount is 8 percent.
L.Unplugged
My opinion on the issue is this: Marijuana should be legalized in America, but it will be a long long long time before it ever happens. Over half the prision population is being raped, hardened, and feed crappy food because they were caught with this weed. HALF!!!!!! Is that not FUCKING unbelievable!!!!!!!! Millions of lives have been altered, sidetracked, or in most cases RUINED because politicians and narrowminded psuedo-intellectuals won't look beyond the party-line.
I'm sorry, but this really urks me.
This is the kind of issue that I'm willing to march on the streets for, lose 50 pounds for, and lose my job for. And even then....EVEN THEN it wouldn't be fraction of what thousands of Americans have already done.
It's a war against the poor, the minorities, and the unlucky. I know there are just as many wealthy potheads as poor ones, but show me figures that dispell the belief that most of those being held on drug charges are in the upper-crust of wealth. Show me!
I'm sorry, but this really urks me.
This is the kind of issue that I'm willing to march on the streets for, lose 50 pounds for, and lose my job for. And even then....EVEN THEN it wouldn't be fraction of what thousands of Americans have already done.
It's a war against the poor, the minorities, and the unlucky. I know there are just as many wealthy potheads as poor ones, but show me figures that dispell the belief that most of those being held on drug charges are in the upper-crust of wealth. Show me!
ghetofabu
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Re: Re: Re: The War on Drugs is STUPID.
Thank you.
Lemonite said:
Thank you.
Danospano said:
no argument from me! look at our own adam clayton as an example. he was caught with marijuana. what happened to him? a clean slate as long as he donated money to charity. that's it! how many people in the common working class or lower class get this opportunity?
no, instead they get this huge blemish on their record forever. any time they want to get a job, they have to mention they've been convicted of a felon. and they must specify it was for the possession of an illegal substance. they can no longer even vote, and a lot of places won't hire people with drug charges, since they obviously will use drugs for the rest of their life, esp. if they're 35 now and were caught with it at 19.
edited to add that second paragraph
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CannibalisticArtist
War Child
it's always a war, war on drugs, war on unemployment, war on poverty, war on crime, war on rosie o'donnell etc. war, war, WAR!!!! people are always hungry for war and destruction. fight fire with fire. EYE FOR AN EYE, i don't care if everybody becomes blind, I just HAVE to win.
i'm suprised WWIII has not happened yet.
etc. war, war, WAR!!!! people are always hungry for war and destruction. fight fire with fire. EYE FOR AN EYE, i don't care if everybody becomes blind, I just HAVE to win.i'm suprised WWIII has not happened yet.
CannibalisticArtist said:
me either. i was kinda hoping (this sounds bad, but it's slightly sarcastic so
) that after the 9/11 attacks it would start, but no avail. but maybe it's slowly building.
OP
OP
baker6621
War Child
All I want to stress is that the Anti-Drug commercials are such complete bullshit. They put "Truth" at the end. I really think Children should know the truth. The real truth. Truth that marijuana is a God-given herb ("Enjoy all the fruits and herbs I give to you -Bible") and that no one has ever died from it. Maybe it has some social drawbacks, but not as extensive as a kid hitting his head against a brick wall. I mean, c'mon. I hate when they make shit up, those commercials are so dumb.
U2Bama
Rock n' Roll Doggie
For that matter, tobacco and poison ivy are God-given.
baker, do I sense that you have recently determined that you enjoy smoking pot, and feel like you missed out on it for too many years due to D.A.R.E. and all of the other anti-dope campaigns?
Are you saying that we should start encouraging children to smoke dope because you think it is the Biblical thing to do?
That is a very interesting take on the situation.
~U2Alabama
baker, do I sense that you have recently determined that you enjoy smoking pot, and feel like you missed out on it for too many years due to D.A.R.E. and all of the other anti-dope campaigns?
Are you saying that we should start encouraging children to smoke dope because you think it is the Biblical thing to do?
That is a very interesting take on the situation.
~U2Alabama
Angela Harlem
Jesus Online
I only read the 1st few and last few arguments here, mainly due to the fact I read many previous arguments on pot in here before.
But I got a question for those in favour of decriminalising or legalising smoking of it and possession.
Where do you all draw the line on what society should allow?
The most common argument is that pot is quite harmless. Then we get the retaliation from either side comparing it to alcohol or tobacco. Even fast food, or whatever.
Should we all draw up a table and compare everything us humans consume and rate them?
But I got a question for those in favour of decriminalising or legalising smoking of it and possession.
Where do you all draw the line on what society should allow?
The most common argument is that pot is quite harmless. Then we get the retaliation from either side comparing it to alcohol or tobacco. Even fast food, or whatever.
Should we all draw up a table and compare everything us humans consume and rate them?
CannibalisticArtist
War Child
ideally, the government should completely decriminlise Mj but NOT legalise it. although that would never happen, since the goverment would never allow free trade without some form of taxation, it would have to have a piece of the pie somehow, either by legalising it with tax, or do what they are doing now, making it illegal and punishable with...ta-da....fines.
i'm in favour of decriminalizing all drugs, if people want to have a good time, let them, if they want to die, let them. it's their body they can do whatever they want with it. i can buy a gun and kill myself, why can't i buy heroin and OD?and if children do it, well then they should understand the risk with the aid of their parents explainning to them. cigs are terrible but children can still access them. drugs are illegal and children are still dying from them. mortality will probably increase with increased availability but it will then peak and settle, just like anything it takes TIME to get used to things.
again if people die, well then it's population control. if everybody lived till they were 100 years old then we would have an awfully crowded planet, as if we don't already.
i'm in favour of decriminalizing all drugs, if people want to have a good time, let them, if they want to die, let them. it's their body they can do whatever they want with it. i can buy a gun and kill myself, why can't i buy heroin and OD?and if children do it, well then they should understand the risk with the aid of their parents explainning to them. cigs are terrible but children can still access them. drugs are illegal and children are still dying from them. mortality will probably increase with increased availability but it will then peak and settle, just like anything it takes TIME to get used to things.
again if people die, well then it's population control. if everybody lived till they were 100 years old then we would have an awfully crowded planet, as if we don't already.
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Vorsprung
War Child
A war on drugs, especially on marijuana, is stupid. It only causes crime and suffering even though the drug itself is relatively harmless. Above that, it doesn't work, access to the drug still is spo damn easy. In all of the foreign countries I've been the past 5 years (Belgium, Germany, Italy, Russia, Czech Republic, Spain, USA, Denmark, France and Austria) I've had access to it, though I wasn't looking for it (only used it in Italy) nor did I belong to the incrowd there....most of the times i didn't even speak their language. Now, if it's so easy for a foreign-non-incrowd person to get the stuff, how the hell do you want to stop
adamswildhoney
ONE love, blood, life
The thing with drugs that I don't like is that no matter who you are u can get drugs anywhere and anyhow. I would like to see drugs become harder for children to get because they have no really sense of what they are. Its fine with me if adults want to do or take drugs because that is their life and they are choosing to do what they eant. But when it comes to kids, most often then not the kid is going to do drugs because its what all the other kids are doing not because he/she really wants to do them.
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