The US SUCKS because...

[Elvis]

... well it really doesn't SUCK.

But as a proud citizen of the US, I DO question why our country's intelligence community seems to be in the Ice Age, and why our major cities have not been, and most still arent, protected with military/air force support? Israel, a country the size of California, does have its major cities protected 24/7 with fighters... even during peace times.

Are we (the US) so in a little fairytale world that we feel we are safe from the harsh realities of the world? Personally, I think our own lack of paranoia and security will be our greatest enemy. Do we even have surface to air defenses in our major cities? in our CAPITOL? It appears not.

We are a great kingdom with virtually no moat or castle walls...
We have many more enemies than we think, waiting to storm the castle(s).

**This post was inspired by a fellow forum member whom I had a private discussion with - does this post make me anti-US?**

[Screaming Flower]

Originally posted by Elvis


**This post was inspired by a fellow forum member whom I had a private discussion with - does this post make me anti-US?**

no. it makes you realistic. it's a shame when you can't criticize national policy without being called unamerican.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Screaming Flower


no. it makes you realistic. it's a shame when you can't criticize national policy without being called unamerican.

i think thats part of the national policy, is it not?

[Elvis]

Originally posted by kobayashi


i think thats part of the national policy, is it not?

The ONLY 'thought' crime in the US is that of presidential assasination... I believe.

[Gina Marie]

About the surface to air missile part-I saw a former FBI agent on CNN the other day talking about the plane incident over the White House.

He said they do have those on the White House roof(the shoulder-fired or whatever those are called) . I'd be willing to bet we have them in many other places as well.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Elvis


The ONLY 'thought' crime in the US is that of presidential assasination... I believe.

that is the only defined 'crime'. but many other thought processes are all but eliminated by a series of filters and traps placed throughout various social institutions.

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Gina Marie
About the surface to air missile part-I saw a former FBI agent on CNN the other day talking about the plane incident over the White House.

He said they do have those on the White House roof(the shoulder-fired or whatever those are called) . I'd be willing to bet we have them in many other places as well.

both the federal, provincial and municipal governments seriously considered placing SAM's around the perimeter of Pickering Nuclear Power Station in Pickering, Ontario which is just half an hour from downtown Toronto.

the plan was eventually abandoned but only after designs had been made and plans arranged for their installation.

i wouldn't be surprised at all if several US cities in particular are outfitted with similar measures.

[JessicaAnn]

I don't think you're anti-American for believing this ... actually that's the great thing about this country--we can criticize the government.

Part of me wants to agree with you, but part of me worries that:

* This is cost prohibitive;
* We won't know where to draw the line ... first we start with air force protection in major cities ... then the smaller (yet important cities) would complain about a lackof protection, demanding some sort of protection ... since it's not likely the air force can protect all cities in the US, we'll start having the army patrol the streets of America with machine guns and rifles strapped to their backs ... then what ... the start of a military state

About a month and a half after Sept. 111, I had to get on an airplane ... seeing the National Guard members at security check points and patrolling the terminals with their big guns and bomb sniffing dogs freaked me out and made me more nervous than I was when I left the house. I know it was for my safety (and the safety of all), but it only fed my paranoia.

I do not want to live my life in a state of panic and fear.

[Elvis]

Originally posted by kobayashi


both the federal, provincial and municipal governments seriously considered placing SAM's around the perimeter of Pickering Nuclear Power Station in Pickering, Ontario which is just half an hour from downtown Toronto.

the plan was eventually abandoned but only after designs had been made and plans arranged for their installation.

i wouldn't be surprised at all if several US cities in particular are outfitted with similar measures.

During world war 2, California was a fortress. All along the coast were HUGE cannons, bunkers, Nike missles, etc.... they were all dismantled post ww2... because there was no 'threat' and it made the general population nervous.

The real question is... IF they indeed have SAMs in DC... why did they not take-out a plane flying right into the heart of the Capitol, before it ever got there? Is the FAA that out of touch with the planes? Do they not notice when major airliners head off-course? Where were our fighters over our Capitol... to guide/force the plane away?

[kobayashi]

Originally posted by Elvis
The real question is... IF they indeed have SAMs in DC... why did they not take-out a plane flying right into the heart of the Capitol, before it ever got there? Is the FAA that out of touch with the planes? Do they not notice when major airliners head off-course? Where were our fighters over our Capitol... to guide/force the plane away?

sorry, i meant they may very well be there now in the time since sept. 11. i would be surprised if they weren't.

should they have been there all along? i suppose, but it matters little now.

[Elvis]

Originally posted by JessicaAnn

About a month and a half after Sept. 111, I had to get on an airplane ... seeing the National Guard members at security check points and patrolling the terminals with their big guns and bomb sniffing dogs freaked me out and made me more nervous than I was when I left the house. I know it was for my safety (and the safety of all), but it only fed my paranoia.

I do not want to live my life in a state of panic and fear.

A good portion of the world lives like this... compared to 'them', we live in Disneyland... a plot of land in the real world, that when you're inside, you pretend nothing else exists - but it does.

Ideal or not, we live in a harsh, uncivilized world...
How do you think the US has protected its citizens all these years? By imposing force, or the threat of it, upon other nations/groups. Our military and its technologies are mostly outdated...

Trust me, I wish we could live in a peaceful world w/o violence and fear, but this simply isn't the case. We NEED to be realistic about these things, prepare ourselves, and be on guard.

Personally, the last time I flew, I was sad to see the National Guards NOT present, as they were when I flew in the fall (post 9/11). I'd rather have SOME feeling of security than none at all.

[diamond]

I think this is the ultimate goal of The Homeland Security Office.

If the 'civil rights' crowd will bite their tounges for a bit ...maybe some ultimate good can be accomplished here

dB9

[Elvis]

Originally posted by diamond
I think this is the ultimate goal of The Homeland Security Office.

If the 'civil rights' crowd will bite their tounges for a bit ...maybe some ultimate good can be accomplished here

dB9

We sholdn't have needed a homeland security BS office....

What the F*** is our military for???


As for civil rights, as a friend mentioned earlier... we live in a country where 30 yrs ago blacks were just given more 'civil rights'.

In this country, you need to realize something..... civil rights DO NOT exist when compared to the nations security. If there is no nation, or a weakend one, there is also no nation to grant any 'rights'. Again.. this is the Disneyland scenario.

As in most nations, the US's number one priority is preservation of the gov't. All else comes after that in the priority list.

[Lilly]

i think where the "we don't need much protection" attitude originated was when we realized we were oceans away from anyone who would want to attack us. this was well before the airplane, and the attitude survived longer than it took technology to grow. airplanes now are clearly capable of flying across the ocean and dropping bombs (or being hijacked). the attitude that america was invinsible crumbled with the twin towers on 9/11. we understand now (or i HOPE we understand now) that we cannot expect that we are invinsible.

of course the question comes after the realization. and this time the question is "what are we supposed to do to make sure we are safe?" well, there isn't really an easy answer to that. we have many more major cities than israel does. what would we classify as a major city? we would have to raise taxes to pay for this, if i didn't live in a major city i wouldn't want to pay for a city hundereds of miles away to be protected while i sit in a city that could be large, but not classified as major, which is unprotected.

the united states receives threats daily. how are we to know which ones to take seriously? who knows. if we take all of them seriously we won't live lives. if we don't take any of them seriously, innocent people die. it's a catch-22 that no one has really been able to solve yet.

[adamswildhoney]

Originally posted by JessicaAnn
I don't think you're anti-American for believing this ... actually that's the great thing about this country--we can criticize the government.

I agree!

[STING2]

Actually, are military and technologies are far from being outdated as is so often demonstrated. In fact, the USA is so far ahead of other countries that there is a huge gap in military technology between the USA and its NATO Allies in Europe. In the Kosovo Campaign in 1999, the first war to be fought and won by one side without any military losses, the USA performed over 90% of the combat operations because USA aircraft all had combat all weather capability and satellite guided munitions rather than just laser guided munitions effected by smoke and weather. Thats one thing, the list is very long actually.

In Israel's case, their Airforce is on full alert to respond to attacks that can happen in under 2 or 3 minutes from either the Egyptian Airforce, Syrian Airforce, or Jordans Airforce. Their airlines have not been hijacked in over 30 years and its unlikely that a terrorist could sieze a plane and crash it. It is Israel's airport security and other more police like and investigative measures that prevent airborne terrorism in Israel. Like Israel, this is where the USA's focus should be. There should be profiling of Arab/Muslim passengers and all bags whether they be carry on or being put in the cargo hold should be screened on both International and Domestic flights. Right now on Domestic flights, your bags that you do not carry on with you are not screened when their put in the cargo hold!

While I'll agree that the sensitivity of targets in DC merits a fighter patrol there, the focus of our resources should be on preventing the terrorist from boarding and siezing aircraft of all types. That is where Israels focus is on Airborne Terrorism and it has worked solidly for over 30 years! Israel's Airforce in the meantime is more concerned with a surprise attack by its Arab neighbors than terrorist siezing an aircraft which Israely ground security has prevented from happening for over 30 years.

[U2002revolution!]

The US SUCKS because...

*looks at location* tis okay you say this since you are from the U.S., if you were a foreigner i would of had to get midevil on your butt! (its just one of those things, you know like only black people are supposed to use the "n" word, well, atleast its not as offensive *shrug*)....not that i'm all about U.S. pride or anything, i could care less really.
but yeah, the U.S. has its good points & bad (more good, i'd say).....all in all i wouldn't want to live anywhere else!

[BEAL]

Originally posted by STING2
There should be profiling of Arab/Muslim passengers and all bags whether they be carry on or being put in the cargo hold should be screened on both International and Domestic flights. Right now on Domestic flights, your bags that you do not carry on with you are not screened when their put in the cargo hold!

While I do agree with this statement, i don't think it will hold it's own in the future. I do see terrorists recuriting other nationalities to try and get around the racial profiling. As unfortunate as it is, anyone trying to enter the U.S. from an Arab background should be looked into more deeply than others....right now. I do think the INS should do a better job of tracking EVERYONE who comes into our country. If they are overworked then reform should be in the equation.

It really sucks that it appears that nothing has been done since 9-11 in our own country. How's that saying go....Those that forget the past are bound to relive it????, just keeps coming full circle doesn't.

[JessicaAnn]

Originally posted by STING2
There should be profiling of Arab/Muslim passengers and all bags whether they be carry on or being put in the cargo hold

Are you kidding me ...

Not every person of Arab or Muslim decent is a terrorist and as BEAL correcly pointed out terrorist are recruiting people from other nationalities (ie John Walker Lindh, the so-called American Taliban).

For example, consider the internment of hundreds of throusands of innocent Japaneese citizens in western states during WWII--not to mention the "looks" or harrassment that anyone of Aisian or German decent was subjected to during WWII. Was that right or justified? I think not.

Racial profiling is wrong ... and illeagal. We condemn racial profiling in other countries (ie during the war in the Balkans). As a country, we must be better than that ... people come to this country to escape things like unjustifiable profiling.

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by JessicaAnn


Racial profiling is wrong ...

The liberals will now have you believe that your statement is wrong.. As long as you call it 'Nationality of Origin Extra Attention'..

Anyways, The point remains.. morally wrong or right.. what ethnicity or nationality were these terrorists?.. It's just common sense to pay a bit more attention.. Call it what you want, Just be sure to call it smart in the same breath.

I'm reminded of a Ronald Reagan Quote that can apply many places.. 'Trust But Validate'..

L.Unplugged