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View Poll Results: What causes HATE/ANGER for our fellowmen?men?men?
ENVY/JEALOSY 11 45.83%
POVERTY 13 54.17%
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Old 10-13-2002, 05:58 PM   #1
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The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..Plez vote and comment.

Is it ENVY?
Is it POVERTY?
I mean there is alot of hatred these days.
Some philosophers say-

it is because ppl are poor they hate others and want to start and altercation/aggression.
On the other hand when Ive been broke I never was mad at anybody, I just wanted to go out and make money.
I dont wanna be mad at the wealthy ppl..
When ppl were broke during the Great Depression in the 1930s in our country ppl were nicer and more humble to each other..

On the other hand when ppl are ENVIOUS/JEALOUS of eachother
I think this causes hate..

What do you think?
I think the worship of money causes lots and lots of problems..
We get blinded from commonsense and love of our fellowman

diamond
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Old 10-13-2002, 06:14 PM   #2
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I think poverty by a long shot.
I think that a lot of things begin with poverty and can lead to being envious.
Poverty can also lead to a lack of education which is where mis-understanding comes in and causes anger.
All in all, I think misunderstanding causes more hate and anger, but of the 2, poverty.
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Old 10-13-2002, 06:19 PM   #3
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Re: The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..Plez vote and comment.

I think the root cause of hatred and anger is elitism, actually, which is generally fostered in religion. Sure, there is a bunch of window dressing about us all being equal under the eyes of God, but then there are all these ideas of being "the elect" and "chosen people," which are then instruments for one of those who consider themselves "elect" to try and destroy all those whom they consider to be "evil" or "inferior."

Tolerance, in general, goes against human nature, which, for millennia, has been looking for excuses to destroy anyone they don't consider to be like them. Heck, even animals rip each other apart for the same reasons.

The term "envy" is usually thrown around by the elite to absolve themselves from guilt, and "poverty" is thrown around by those who are, frankly, not part of the elite. But that is just a superficial wound on a much larger injury.

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Old 10-13-2002, 06:25 PM   #4
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Good responses Melon
and
Ms Sparky.

However Ms Sparky-
How come rich ppl still envy each other like fueding rockstars/actresses ect?
Theyre not in poverty.
They are usually angry and act like spoiled brats..

Melon-
Elitism.
Good word..

So "Elitism" is ="bigotry" in a sense?

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Old 10-13-2002, 06:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
So "Elitism" is ="bigotry" in a sense?
"Elitism," in my sense of the word, is any movement that attempts to exult a certain group of people above the rest of the people. "Bigotry" is certainly a signature element of elitism, but it is a characteristic of a group, not the same thing.

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Old 10-13-2002, 06:54 PM   #6
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I think that the envy/hatered that is felt by rich folk pales in comparison to any anger that is reflected by those in poverty.

When I think of anger and hatred, I think of where those 2 emotions often lead - One thing that can be said is crime.
Taking crime and going so far as to say that more crime is commited by those in poverty than those that are rich would lead me to think in the line of direction that poverty is the cause of the anger.

(I'm a little dis-jointed today, I forgot to take my medicine and I'm having difficulty expressing myself clearly, perfect time to try to write eh?)

*Altho, crime commited by rich folk (like Corporate Crime) does do more damage and I'm sure happens more frequently than we are made aware, and lord knows what their problem is. Lack of any brain is my guess *

I could say that the reason rich ppl still hate each other, is out of fear that they will be precieved as less rich than the one they are pissed at. People always think that someone else has more money, or is better off, and fear that they will be stricken with poverty. They don't want others to see them as poor because the Smiths down the street have a newer car than them or something.


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Old 10-13-2002, 07:01 PM   #7
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Old 10-13-2002, 07:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Good responses Melon
and
Ms Sparky.

However Ms Sparky-
How come rich ppl still envy each other like fueding rockstars/actresses ect?
Theyre not in poverty.
They are usually angry and act like spoiled brats..

Melon-
Elitism.
Good word..

So "Elitism" is ="bigotry" in a sense?

DB9
I disagree. There are billions of people living below the poverty line in this world and social strata exist in every society. The fact that many of these people are not full of hate and malice seems to negate this possibility. Poverty may enhance hatred and the willingness to hate, but I think that most of our problems stem from opposing political and religious ideologies manipulating the impoverished (and their lack of education) for their own purposes.
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Old 10-13-2002, 07:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo


I disagree. There are billions of people living below the poverty line in this world and social strata exist in every society. The fact that many of these people are not full of hate and malice seems to negate this possibility. Poverty may enhance hatred and the willingness to hate, but I think that most of our problems stem from opposing political and religious ideologies manipulating the impoverished (and their lack of education) for their own purposes.
These are my sediments

There are ALOT LOT more poor people who live in the world happily

Thank u-Garialdo

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Old 10-13-2002, 07:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
There are ALOT LOT more poor people who live in the world happily
*sees 19th century American lithographs of naked, happy slaves dancing around*



I don't think it is as much as they are happy in poverty. In fact, take the West Bank. A lot of those who live there would never engage in violence themselves, but support those who will blow themselves up in suicide bombings. The nature of support for violence must also be studied, in addition to the actual violence.

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Old 10-13-2002, 07:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


*sees 19th century American lithographs of naked, happy slaves dancing around*



I don't think it is as much as they are happy in poverty. In fact, take the West Bank. A lot of those who live there would never engage in violence themselves, but support those who will blow themselves up in suicide bombings. The nature of support for violence must also be studied, in addition to the actual violence.

Melon
Good pt.
but
arent these 2 nieghbors both "envious" of what they think they are both entitled to?



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Old 10-13-2002, 08:05 PM   #12
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i think envy/jealousy. there's so many people (myself included) who are envious of those who can enjoy the finer things. those that can buy a new car without finding a second (or third) job first. those that can go out to eat wherever they want, whenever they want, without wondering if they'll have money for groceries at the end of the week. those who don't have to live paycheck to paycheck and decide which bill isn't going to be paid on time.

but then there's the crazy extreme people who go robbing upper class houses because they want their stuff, or something like that. so yeah...that's my answer.
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Old 10-14-2002, 12:56 AM   #13
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I vote for ENVY/JEALOUSY, but I want to clarify my answer. I think that racism exists solely because itís taught from generation to generation. Itís true that most racism is fueled by reasonable circumstance that take place between specific people, which leads to stereotyping, but the idea of racism must be learned.

I chose ENVY/JEALOUSY mainly because itís easy to disprove that poverty leads to racism. When you grow up poor your more likely to judge people on character rather than skin color. Itís the protected class, the upper crust of society that continuously holds attitudes of superiority when speaking of not only classes, but races as well. This is based mainly on my own personal experience, so Iím sure there are exceptions to this rule. I will point out that I have mixed with both classes at different points in my life, so I grew up with poor kids from the age of birth until I was 16, and with rich little bastards since I was 9. If this isnít enough proof I donít know what is.
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Old 10-14-2002, 01:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
I vote for ENVY/JEALOUSY, but I want to clarify my answer. I think that racism exists solely because itís taught from generation to generation. Itís true that most racism is fueled by reasonable circumstance that take place between specific people, which leads to stereotyping, but the idea of racism must be learned.

I chose ENVY/JEALOUSY mainly because itís easy to disprove that poverty leads to racism. When you grow up poor your more likely to judge people on character rather than skin color. Itís the protected class, the upper crust of society that continuously holds attitudes of superiority when speaking of not only classes, but races as well. This is based mainly on my own personal experience, so Iím sure there are exceptions to this rule. I will point out that I have mixed with both classes at different points in my life, so I grew up with poor kids from the age of birth until I was 16, and with rich little bastards since I was 9. If this isnít enough proof I donít know what is.
I don't think this is proof enough. In fact, it's the poor or the defenders of the impoverished who are often the quickest to generalize about the rich and their mentality. I know plenty of rich people who are rich because they studied like a dog in school and always set the bar higher. The fact is that you're not rich and that means that you are already in a position to envy and judge. I've met plenty of poor, racist people in my life. In fact, I think there is a definite link between poverty, education (or lack thereof) and racism.
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Old 10-14-2002, 01:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by garibaldo
I think that most of our problems stem from opposing political and religious ideologies manipulating the impoverished (and their lack of education) for their own purposes.
hit the nail on the head
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Old 10-14-2002, 02:11 AM   #16
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Simply put, I believe the root of hatred is formed by the lies we believe about the OTHER, whomever they might be... The more we believe in LIES the more we'll hate that other person.
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:37 AM   #17
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The constant need of humans to think in "Us vs Them" terms, on small or large scale.
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Old 10-14-2002, 11:31 AM   #18
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Re: Re: The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..Plez vote and comment.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I think the root cause of hatred and anger is elitism, actually, which is generally fostered in religion. Sure, there is a bunch of window dressing about us all being equal under the eyes of God, but then there are all these ideas of being "the elect" and "chosen people," which are then instruments for one of those who consider themselves "elect" to try and destroy all those whom they consider to be "evil" or "inferior."

Melon
I'm not sure if this statement is based on theological study or personal interaction with people of faith or if you were referring to a particular religion.

Scripture states that the Jews are Godís chosen people. The Elect is another term for Christian. The doctrine of election simply states that God knew who would come to faith in Christ before the creation of the world.

Is there a continuing history of Jews and Christians trying to destroy all those who are not believers? I think not. Quite the opposite Ė Jews have a continuing history of being targets for hatred. Christians also are being imprisoned or killed today as a result of their faith.

I will pray for you brother Melon.
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Old 10-14-2002, 12:32 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: The root cause of HATE/ANGER towards our fellowman..Plez vote and comment.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Scripture states that the Jews are Godís chosen people. The Elect is another term for Christian. The doctrine of election simply states that God knew who would come to faith in Christ before the creation of the world.
The Old Testament indeed states that Jews are God's "chosen people," but Jesus came to Earth and wholly rejected that claim. St. Paul makes an equal condemnation of that claim, and his entire Church of Antioch (ideological and chronological predecessor to the entire Christian Church) emphasized on Gentiles--e.g., the excluded. I believe that the entire concept of "chosen people" is an archaic relic of polytheism, as I'm sure the Philistines were the "chosen people" of Baal. Since we don't believe in polytheism, the idea of "chosen people" is ridiculous. Aren't we all equal children of God?

Quote:
Is there a continuing history of Jews and Christians trying to destroy all those who are not believers? I think not. Quite the opposite Ė Jews have a continuing history of being targets for hatred. Christians also are being imprisoned or killed today as a result of their faith.
Read the Bible, for instance. In conquering Canaan in the book of Joshua, God supposedly commands Joshua to evoke "the Ban," which commanded the murder of every last man, woman, and child, along with all property of all sorts. Of course, then there are the evocations of justified rape in Deuteronomy:

"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, and seeth among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; and she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and remain in thine house . . . And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her" (Deuteronomy 21:10-14).

But hey...we can tell that there is justice here. I mean, they were allowed to "humble her" and divorce her, but they can't sell her!

But, yes, there is a shift of persecution, and the tone of Judaism changes, *especially* in post-Biblical medieval Jewish scripture. In fact, the Talmuds so rejected most of the bombasticism of the Mosaic Law that they voided it entirely; hence, why reform and conservative Judaism is looked at disdainfully by Orthodox Judaism, which still does believe in the Mosaic Law.

While I have sympathy for post-Biblical Judaism, the same courtesy I do not extend to Christianity. Was there a sense of persecution in the early Church? Yes, indeed; but that ended the minute Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and made it the state religion of the Roman Empire. Christianity switched from being the oppressed to being the oppressor; a machine of imperialism more interested in the control aspects of religion than anything. I mean, how else could imperial Europe keep the entire population enslaved for 1000 years in feudalism? Guilt. Telling everyone that it is God's will that they are serfs, and, equally, that it is God's will that certain people are wealthy and powerful; hence, you would be sinning against God to defy this classification. A complex system of controlling every aspect of living, telling them that pleasure is sinful and misery is godliness. Then there's the Inquisition. Oh my...you should read some of the torture techniques they used. Hanging someone upside down and systematically sawing them in half, starting from the most "sensitive" parts of our bodies. The glory of Christianity!

Of course, the Protestant Reformation comes, and we get new oppression. John Calvin, the ideological founder of most American Protestant sects, rather than set a new example when he conquered Geneva, Switzerland, sets up a counter-Reformation and kills everyone who won't convert to his religion. Rather than reject the modes of control that the Catholic Church constructed to stay in power, they just crank it up a notch to consolidate their own control. How can we culturally forget Jonathan Edwards' famous "fire and brimstone" sermon?

Hell, damnation...does man seemingly do anything right? Oh wait...we supposedly live in an *especially* evil time. At least, that's what the Christians tell me. Even more evil than 1000 years of enslavement; a Church run entirely by the royalty that practiced especially gruesome torture; a religious doctrine that made everyone believe that sex, even in procreation, was a sinful extension of lust; the Bubonic Plague that killed 1/3 of Europe; and smallpox that would kill most of its victims and leave the rest horribly disfigured, if not blind. Heh...whomever said people were ever good at history?

...

Of course, let me allay any confusion: I am a devout Christian, but--maybe I was from another planet in another dimension--all these ideas of guilt, self-loathing, and general complexity was completely foreign to me until I was 18. Creationism and the ideas expoused by the Christian Coalition I believed to be long extinct, killed in the 19th century when man was able to reconcile between God and science. How wrong I found myself to be, and I have a hard time finding Jesus in all this mess. Of course, the response I get from some Christians is "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). And all I can say to that is that Jesus would never have had to come at all; we've always done a great job of killing ourselves and each other.

Hatred...anger...guilt...power...control...elitism...

Melon
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Old 10-14-2002, 12:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

Good pt.
but
arent these 2 nieghbors both "envious" of what they think they are both entitled to?
Let me get more in-depth. This is an ideologically-charged argument. "Envy/jealousy" is what conservative organizations say. "Poverty" is what liberal organizations say. It comes down to a semiotical distinction, though. "Envy/jealousy" is perceived as a vice that people just need to get over, and "poverty" is a social injustice that needs to be solved. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why would most of third-world be "envious"? Because they are mired in poverty. But why is there poverty to begin with? Elitism. Man feels good, knowing that they are better than people. It is this elitism that keeps those who have the resources to enact change from doing nothing effectual at all. It is this elitism that generates all this conflict, because man has an instinctive desire to want its concerns and emotions validated. When this validation does not come--in this case, the third-world wants its concerns validated by the first-world--people will do more desperate and sometimes violent things to try and achieve this validation. But elitism stands in the way and says, "Hey...don't feel guilty about being wealthier than them. You *earned* your wealth." Again, with "earnings" being a pivotal virtue in the Western world.

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