U2387 said:
Please read all of this, I want to address the advice you gave me, etc:
. I see you are from Arizona- you guys probably would have been ignored until you became the fastest growing state under such a system.(correct me if I am wrong- 1990s somewhere?)
Sure, Clinton was impeached, did not try and claim otherwise, I guess we can just agree to disagree on the merits. They got Capone for tax evasion, fine, Elliot Spitzer, another straight arrow got the Gambinos on running a monopoly, not on blowing people's brains out. Difference between this and Clinton- what they did was illegal, Clinton was just a personal transgression that you correctly point out as his Achilles heal- always has been. I dont admire that part of him.
On a better note, thank you for the compliments on my writing and I am not trying to be angry. I do not want to and will not flame out, as I have liked posting and learning from others here in the short time I have been registered.
We can agree on Obama and McCain and independents, both come across as principled, not in it for themselves and Hillary is just the opposite. You make a good point about independents not going for Hillary, and I will be glad to stick up for you if you get any of her supporters on here.
. I liked Biden the best and Richardson was my number 2. I am rambling again, but I just want you to have my assurances that it is not personal, I have no problem with you, appreciate the debate and also, I am no radical leftist who is blind to realities. One U2 fan to another, neither of us could be that bad, we both have our views and thats what it is about. Look forward to seeing you in other posts, and things will be toned down!
-Greg
p.s. Ever attended U2 outdoors in Arizona? UF tour somewhere, forget the place and of course, Sun Devil Stadium Tempe? I have 12/20/87 at Sun Devil and it sounded like one of their best shows ever. I know someone who goes to ASU and she says the whole area is amazing.
Greg-
Here's an interesting article on why Richardson wouldn't support Hillary, he was being pressured by them, told that he owed them etc etc. It's an artcle that shows both Clintons' true colours-power.
Here's the article:
Why Gov. Bill Richardson didn't endorse Clinton
Shari Vialpando / Associated Press
Gov. Bill Richardson, shown here in New Mexico on Tuesday, has drawn criticism from supporters of Bill and Hillary Clinton for endorsing Sen. Barack Obama. "I was loyal," Richardson says. "But I don't think that loyalty is transferable to his wife.... You don't transfer loyalty to a dynasty."
The New Mexico governor says he was dismayed by pressure from the Clinton camp, and impressed by Obama's optimism. Besides, 'you don't transfer loyalty to a dynasty.'
By Mark Z. Barabak, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
April 12, 2008
SANTA FE, N.M. -- Before he endorsed Barack Obama, before he drew the wrath of the Clintons and was likened to Judas, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson nearly endorsed Hillary Rodham Clinton for president.
But Richardson hesitated, and as the Democratic campaign turned ugly, he grew angry.
There was that "3 a.m." TV ad, in which Clinton questioned Obama's personal mettle. "That upset me," Richardson said.
There were some ham-fisted phone calls from Clinton backers, who questioned Richardson's honor and suggested that the governor, who served in President Clinton's Cabinet, owed Hillary Clinton his support. "That really ticked me off," Richardson said.
Still, even as he moved from Clinton toward Obama -- "the pursuit was pretty relentless on both sides" -- Richardson wrestled with the question of loyalty. After 14 years in Congress and a measure of fame as an international troubleshooter, Richardson was named Clinton's U.N. ambassador, then Energy secretary: "two important appointments," Richardson said.
He finally concluded that he had settled his debt to the former president: He had worked for Clinton's election in 1992, helped pass the North American Free Trade Agreement as part of his administration, stood by him during the Monica S. Lewinsky sex scandal, and rounded up votes to fight impeachment.
"I was loyal," Richardson said during an extended conversation over breakfast this week at the governor's mansion in Santa Fe. "But I don't think that loyalty is transferable to his wife. . . . You don't transfer loyalty to a dynasty."
He was impressed by the mostly positive tone of Obama's campaign, and grew to appreciate the substance and depth of their private conversations. The more Richardson heard from the Washington heavyweights backing Clinton, the more convinced he became of the need for a change inside the Beltway.
It has been three weeks since Richardson embraced the Illinois senator, an endorsement that continues to rankle and resonate -- the significance, it would seem, going far beyond the preference of a governor from a poor, rural state.
But this is a family fight, between kin of the Clinton years, so perhaps the raw emotions shouldn't be surprising. "They're very similar in personality," said Art Torres, chairman of the California Democratic Party and a friend of both Bill Clinton and Richardson. "There was a bond established, and I think [the former president] feels a little hurt."
Attention to the endorsement might have quickly passed but for the strenuous protest of Bill Clinton and others. Speaking for the campaign, advisor Mark Penn suggested Richardson's endorsement came too late to be much help to Obama. "Everyone has their endorsers," he said.
But then James Carville, the pundit, strategist and Clinton loyalist, hurled a lightning bolt by comparing Richardson to Judas and his surrender of Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.
Soon after came an odd back-and-forth concerning a private conversation in which, supposedly, either Hillary Clinton or Richardson dismissed Obama as unelectable. (Neither party will discuss particulars, but Richardson said he never made that statement.)
Days later, just when interest in the endorsement seemed to wane, former President Clinton exploded in a rant about Richardson at the California Democratic Party convention. He later apologized, but his tirade in a closed-door session with superdelegates rekindled the story for several more days.
People close to Clinton said he views the governor's action as a personal betrayal. "I think [Richardson] really owes a big chunk of his success and his career to the Clintons," said an associate who has discussed the matter with the former president and requested anonymity to speak candidly.
"Look," Richardson responded, "I was a successful congressman rescuing hostages before I was appointed. I was a governor afterward, elected on my own."
Even more than the endorsement, Clinton's associate said, the former president was angry because he thought Richardson broke his word. The two men watched the Super Bowl together at the governor's mansion -- Clinton made a special trip from California in bad weather -- and the former president walked away convinced that Richardson would endorse his wife or, at least, stay neutral.
Richardson was, in fact, close to backing the New York senator that day, though his advisors -- many of whom backed Obama -- urged him to wait. "I remember talking to the president and saying, 'I'm leaning. But I'm not there yet.' He denied pledging neutrality if he changed his mind. "Sometimes people hear what they want to hear," Richardson said.
Normally the most gregarious of politicians, the governor during the interview this week was subdued as he slowly worked his way through a plate of scrambled eggs, bacon and green chiles. His voice was soft, and he rarely smiled.
His endorsement had been highly coveted, due largely to his stature as one of the country's most prominent Latino leaders. The pursuit began soon after Richardson quit the presidential race on Jan. 10.
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Re Biden although a decent and warm speaker, he comes across lofty and a bit Kerry like, plus the plagerism issue back in the 80s.
Richardson I think is more genuine, but I do remember him early in the Lewinsky scandal huddling with Bill and Veron Jordan aiming to besmirch Monica. The blue dress surfaced later and unbeknown to Richardson he coulda been played or used the same way ( or even known perhaps that something was up) Colin Powell was played by the Bush Administrtion in the UN. I think subconsciously it may have bothered Bill Richardson that early on he was lying for Bill, and in the meantime the Clintons still say "hey you owe us". You gotta love Richardson for saying F/O to the Clinton machine.
I don't think Bill's only character flaw was his libdo, I view him more as pathological and always able to tidy up his loose ends- this is the only way that he was finally nailed and it wasn't pretty.
Az is a great place if you're heat tolerent, in which I'm not but I have 2 beautiful teenage girls from a 1st marriage that keep me here along with an outstanding wife. I grew up in So. Cal where the weather is nearly perfect however I'm stuck here for another 5 years it looks like.
I have many bootlegs of U2, and pretty sure I have Tempe 87 Joshua Tree Tour-thanks for your offer.
Stay well #387 and looking forward to your posts.
Dave