The Real McCain

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anitram said:
I don't really understand the American obsession with the military or military men somehow being glorified a presidents. It's really not found elsewhere in the Western world and the societies function well and have good leadership as well. I'd actually probably be predisposed to NOT voting for a military person only because I don't attach great political importance to it and I think there are some things about military structure that may be antithetical to democratic governing anyway.

The USA is different from other Western countries, her uniqueness reigning supreme.
Why do you think Bono pays homeage to America so much?

In God's Country is Bono talking about the USA and Ireland, and we still don't know why Nova Scotia was overlooked.:angry:

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diamond said:


The USA is different from other Western countries, her uniqueness reigning supreme.
Why do you think Bono pays homeage to America so much?

In God's Country is Bono talking about the USA and Ireland, and we still don't know why Nova Scotia was overlooked.:angry:

<>

This type of arrogant thinking is utterly sickening to me. Do you have any idea how offensive that comes off to people in other nations? We are no better or deserving of some "unique" blessing than any other country in this world. We've contributed a lot of good to the world, but we're also the cause of some huge atrocities. These attitudes are hurtfu to me, as a person who loves my country. I can only imagine how hurtful they must be to a person from another country who loves their nation as well.
 
U2isthebest said:


This type of arrogant thinking is utterly sickening to me. Do you have any idea how offensive that comes off to people in other nations? We are no better or deserving of some "unique" blessing than any other country in this world. We've contributed a lot of good to the world, but we're also the cause of some huge atrocities. These attitudes are hurtfu to me, as a person who loves my country. I can only imagine how hurtful they must be to a person from another country who loves their nation as well.

Then get Bono to never sing and/or disavow himself with the ideas expressed in the song "In God's Country" and I *may* reconsider my thought process.

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U2isthebest said:


Personally, I form my opinions independent of Bono. :shrug:

I thought Bono was our own personal cheerleader, our own kind of Tony Robbins musical life coach.:angry:

That's what Larry told me in the sexy email he sent a while back anyway.

;)

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diamond said:


I thought Bono was our own personal cheerleader, our own kind of Tony Robbins musical life coach.:angry:

That's what Larry told me in the sexy email he sent a while back anyway.

;)

<>

Is Bono ok?:yikes:














*My off topic-ness will now end.*
 
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A_Wanderer said:
Good question, I have yet to see any FYM lefties say that mercenaries slaughtered like pigs in Iraq had it coming because they ever so innocently pillaged, raped and murdered their way through the ashed out remains of a fascist state.

I am not a leftie, but I am in fact on record as saying that I have no sympathy for private mercenaries who get killed in Iraq - and, frankly, I stand by that 100%.
 
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Strongbow said:
it's funny that you gloss over most of McCain's life in favor of a few cherry picked allegations about his temperament and that you think Bush was right to pursue such an issue in his compaign against McCain back in 2000. Your hero Bill Clinton has had plenty of his own testy moments. But he never had to land an aircraft on a bobbing aircraft carrier in the middle of the ocean in total darkness. I think it would be better to independently look at McCain's entire life in order to assess his temperament instead of just following the latest media flap up about him.



Strongbow said:
I said ACTIVE MILITARY SERVICE! Murtha was in the reserves for most of his time in the military. He is a House Representitive and far from being as well known with most of the military as McCain.

Joe Biden, John Warner, Dick Lugar, Sam Nunn, Ike Skelton, Rush Holt don't have the 50+ years of experience that John McCain has on National Security. Sam Nunn and Joe Biden voted AGAINST the 1991 Gulf War to remove Saddam's military forces from Kuwait. EVEN the French sent troops, a light armored division, to help remove Saddam from Kuwait in 1991, but Sam Nunn, Joe Biden, John Kerry, and the vast majority of Democrats voted against it. Sorry but Gary Hart, Lee Hamilton and many of the others you mentioned are not on par or ahead of McCain on these issues nor are they as well respected.

The above must rank as quite simply the most bizarre series of posts ever seen on this forum.
 
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As an aside to this topic, I'm a bit angered that some FYMers do not answer their PMs from me.

dbs
 
politico.com

Lindsey Graham: McCain's 'little jerk'

Amie ParnesWed Apr 9, 5:39 AM ET

If anyone else called him “little jerk,” Sen. Lindsey Graham might be offended.

But the jab comes from Sen. John McCain, so he wears it like a badge of honor.

“If John’s not belittling you, you’re in trouble,” Graham said. “He calls me lots of other names, too, but they’re not appropriate for the newspaper.”

McCain and Graham aren’t just friends. They’re inseparable, so much so that colleagues, staffers and journalists have begun making cracks about the relationship between the freshman senator from South Carolina and the man who would be president.

Some call Graham a lapdog. Others say he acts as though he’s one of McCain’s legislative aides. One Senate aide, who called Graham and Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.) “Pips” to McCain’s Gladys Knight, said that Graham “fawns over McCain like there’s no tomorrow.” In the run-up to this week’s hearings for Army Gen. David Petraeus and Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker, The Washington Post’s Tom Ricks said Graham “sometimes seems like McCain’s ‘Mini-Me.’”

“I think it’s almost a father-son relationship,” said Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.), a friend of both senators and another member of their Senate clique. “I think Lindsey looks to [McCain] and relies on him. But I think John draws on Lindsey’s energy and relies on him for a laugh.”

McCain spokeswoman Melissa Shuffield said the two senators “have the kind of friendship that will outlast their political careers.”

The two have grown so close that a Fox News anchor felt compelled to ask Graham last week if he might be McCain’s running mate — a suggestion Graham laughed off by saying that McCain “doesn’t have anything I want or need.”

That’s not exactly true. As Graham himself admits, his close relationship with McCain affords him opportunities and access that most neophyte senators don’t usually enjoy — as long as he’s willing to put up with the abuse that goes along with it all.

Tuesday morning was typical. As a curtain raiser for Petraeus’ appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee, McCain, Graham and Lieberman appeared together outside the Capitol at an event organized by Veterans for Freedom.

The TV cameras turned out to catch the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, but Graham got some of the attention and a bit of the ribbing. “Lindsey Graham was a colonel — that’s the good news,” McCain told the crowd. “He’s also a lawyer — that’s the bad news.”)

Tuesday was McCain’s first day back at the Capitol in a few weeks. The last time he was there — for votes on the massive budget bill — he and Graham could be seen walking side by side in the Russell building and riding together on the Senate subway. During the late-night vote-o-rama, the two men cracked jokes in the back of the chamber like two grade school pranksters.

“Lindsey! Lindsey! Get over here!” McCain said, his raspy voice wafting up to the gallery, when Graham strayed momentarily and walked in the other direction.

A few days later, when McCain flew home to Arizona for a weekend of relaxation and barbecue, he took Graham with him. Then, together with Lieberman, they traveled on an eight-day journey to Iraq, Jordan, Israel, England and France later in the month.

On the trip, like at so many other times, Graham had what he called “a name-ID problem” as he traveled with two more widely known senators. “Everyone was saying, ‘Hey, John! Hey, Joe! And then there was me,” Graham said. “But John was very good about making sure everyone knew my name.”

At the Western Wall, Graham said he was literally run down by 100 photographers trying to get to McCain. Graham ended up on the ground. “I almost dislocated my knee, and John is screaming, ‘Get up! Get up!’” Graham recalled, laughing. “Apparently, my fate in life is to be instructed.”

It isn’t easy being the nobody-senator next to the somebody-senator-turned-presidential-hopeful. But Graham says he relishes playing the role of McCain’s confidant.

“If I make his day better by being someone he can talk to, confide in, have a good laugh with, I am honored to play that role,” he said. “I enjoy his company.”

But it’s not all give and no take, Graham said.

“I’ve gotten to do things because of John that I’d never be able to do” without his friendship, he said.

McCain was there for Graham when he made the jump from the House of Representatives to the Senate in 2002. They supported one another through some of the biggest legislative battles of the past six years. And when others wavered, Graham stuck it out for McCain during those dark days in the summer of 2007 when it looked like his presidential ambitions were dead.

It’s quite the bond, considering McCain was already studying at the Naval Academy before Graham was born in 1955.

In a sense, the two men owe their friendship to former President Bill Clinton. Graham was a member of the House, serving on the Judiciary Committee, when the panel initiated impeachment proceedings against Clinton. Graham had the task of shipping the impeachment case to the Senate side of Capitol Hill, and that’s when he and McCain met.

“It’s kind of an odd way to meet people, but that’s how we met,” he said.

The two found a mutual interest in military issues. McCain, a Navy man, was a POW in Vietnam; Graham served in the Air Force and went on to serve as a judge advocate during the Gulf War.

With military issues as their common language, they kept up the communication from opposite ends of Capitol Hill. In 2000, when McCain decided to run for president, he asked Graham for his support.

“He called me out of the blue and said, ‘I’m thinking about running for president. Will you support me?’ Graham recalled. “I said, ‘Sure, yeah, I’ll support you, because you’re the first person who ever asked. What the hell? Why not?’”

In 2002, Graham won a Senate seat and instantly turned to McCain as a mentor.

Over the past six years, when one senator was working on a big issue, the other was often close by his side. It happened on immigration, when McCain introduced a comprehensive reform measure that critics called nothing but amnesty.

Graham was there.

“I got pulled into this,” Graham said. The issue was so controversial that some of his constituents began calling him “Lindsey Gomez,” he said.

“I really owe him a lot for that,” Graham said, his voice dripping with sarcasm.

It happened again on judicial nominations, when McCain brought together the bipartisan “Gang of 14” senators in an effort to end an impasse over judicial nominations.

Graham was there.

And once again, he had to take the heat. Religious conservatives were incensed because they wanted Republicans to stand tough. Some evangelical leaders even singled out Graham for his role in the gang.

Graham was there yet again when McCain pressured the White House over detainee interrogations and the definition of torture.

They’ve been through some big fights but perhaps none tougher than the one Graham calls “our campaign,” the current battle for the White House. Last July, as McCain’s campaign looked like it was falling apart, the two buddies found themselves at a humbling campaign stop.

There were just 12 guys there, and half of them were aging World War II veterans. As McCain spoke, “these guys were saying, ‘What did he say?’” Graham recalled, laughing.

The headlines were saying that McCain’s campaign was dead. But McCain turned to Graham, smiled and said, “Hey, pal, we’ve got ’em right where we want ’em.”

Since then, Graham has been impressed with his friend’s ability to turn it all around.

“When the chips are down, John has a way of slowing down, reflecting, listening to what people tell him,” Graham said. “Under pressure, he’s at his best.”
 
Scarletwine said:
The media has made him out to be some moderate maverick and it couldn't be farther from the truth. As Pat Buchanan said he's Dick Cheney on steriods.
10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1

2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan says McCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2

3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4


5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5


6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7


8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8

9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9


10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0—yes, zero—from the League of Conservation Voters last year.10

http://www.antipasministries.com/html/file0000276.htm
 
diamond said:




In God's Country is Bono talking about the USA and Ireland, and we still don't know why Nova Scotia was overlooked.:angry:

<>

"sad eyes, crooked crosses. . ."
 
Strongbow said:


Well, most Americans did not feel that way which is why Bush is a two term President with his party having controlled congress for most of his time in office.

What is your point? Clinton was a two term president as well. Bush did not win in 2000 and won by the narrowest margin in history in 2004. Just because he got elected does not mean he is a good president. What I said was a fact, Bush's business career and missteps in office- deficit, Iraq, economy, are there for all to see. Clinton left with approval rating over 50%, Bush is lucky if he hits 30 now, so even by your standards, hes no good.
 
diamond said:


Actually the 40 million was well spent on prosecuting Bill.
He got him impeached, disbarred and will keep his wife from obtaining the presidency, money well spent for the future of our country- my hot headed little friend.

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Impeached, disbarred for nothing!! Whitewater never turned up any proof of wrongdoing- Arkansas disbarrment was orchestrated by a Mike Huckabee, who also PERSONALLY let a murderer who was a Clinton accuser out on parole- he went to Missouri and killed again- that is how far the Republicans will take their hatred for Clinton. Dont you understand that they WASTED all that money that could have been used plenty of places on a PERSONAL and POLITICAL vendetta. He did nothing that was illegal or that would serve to disqualify himself from office in the least bit. Money well spent for the future of our country?? He was not removed from office, so it went nowhere, and looking at where we are now, with all of the debt that Bush has got us into, I would take the future Clinton was leading us to any day. As far as keeping his wife from being President- she can do that on her own accord, believe me! I am no Hillary fan, but Bill did a very good job in office.

I am giving the facts calmly- I know you interpret that as hot headed, but since you do not have any to contribute, you name call. Thats fine. BTW- have you heard from principal management about that Gone idea?
 
diamond said:
Only in FYM would the idea be floated of finding fault with the character of a man who is battled test and true patriot for his country, only in FYM.

I often wonder if some of you take the metaphorical "short bus" to your computer monitors every morning.

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And in the Republican Party- they did the same thing to Max Cleeland, John Kerry, Jack Murtha, the list of military heroes they have defamed goes on. Plenty of crazies to go around, here and elsewhere.
 
Strongbow said:


I said ACTIVE MILITARY SERVICE! Murtha was in the reserves for most of his time in the military. He is a House Representitive and far from being as well known with most of the military as McCain.

Joe Biden, John Warner, Dick Lugar, Sam Nunn, Ike Skelton, Rush Holt don't have the 50+ years of experience that John McCain has on National Security. Sam Nunn and Joe Biden voted AGAINST the 1991 Gulf War to remove Saddam's military forces from Kuwait. EVEN the French sent troops, a light armored division, to help remove Saddam from Kuwait in 1991, but Sam Nunn, Joe Biden, John Kerry, and the vast majority of Democrats voted against it. Sorry but Gary Hart, Lee Hamilton and many of the others you mentioned are not on par or ahead of McCain on these issues nor are they as well respected.

All of the guys I mentioned are highly respected, and Murtha is widely known as the most respected among the military brass. All of these guys are at least on par, and all have had plenty of military endorsements. The point is not to count them and see who has more endorsements or experience, it is just to say that there are plenty of people in public life who have served honorably and are well respected by military and national security officials- career military guys are Democrats, Republicans and independents. Career officers, generals, all good leaders have endorsed all candidates in this race. John McCain is one of the most prominent, but not the only.

Voting against the 1991 Gulf War has nothing to do with whether you are qualified on National Security. Were did that get us? First, he was Reagan and Daddy's pal, then April Glaspie, Bush's ambassador to Iraq gives Saddam the green light to invade Kuwait, all of a sudden Bush has a problem with it and has to go and defend Kuwait and Saudi Arabias rightful dictators? The reason we went to war, supposedly, was that Saddam threatened Saudi Arabia- did he, no absolutely not, he never amassed any troops on the border(google st petersburg times satellite photo). Then because we are over in Saudi defending the most violent and radical muslim financier of terrorism anywhere, the royal family, our friend at the time Osama turns against us and declares war. Then Bush cheerleads the Shiite uprising and does nothing to aid it, leading to a brutal slaughter and resentment that continues among the Shiites in Iraq to this very moment in Basra and Sadr City. He goes in, does not finish the job, leaves Saddam in power and then gets Al Qaeda off the ground. I am glad they voted against it, Kuwait, Israel, Saudi, all those very wealthy militarily capable countries are NOT OUR PROBLEM. Let me know when Nunn or Biden or Kerry vote against a necessary war- they all supported Afghanistan and still do.
 
2861U2 said:


Actually, he did win. I know it's still hard for liberals to accept.



:lol:

You don't know history, then, because that isn't true at all.

No, he filed the biggest frivolous lawsuit that even his own supreme court had to cover their ass and say dont expect this reasoning to be used to stop future recounts. Gore won, not only the popular vote in nationally, but the popular vote in FLORIDA. I understand and accept what the electoral college is, my point is not to get rid of that, it is that Gore won that as well.Before you accuse me of being a 'liberal' I dont even know what that means - Bush has spent us into oblivion and he calls himself a conservative , have you read Bush v Gore?? Any legal expert will tell you it was a joke- alleging a violation of the voting rights act because procedures differed across Florida counties. That is such BS- by that logic, all voting is a violation of the voting rights act, because the differences were punch card vs machine vs lever that exist everywhere! It was a COMPLETE and UTTER JOKE and the court even admitted that.

I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.
 
U2387 said:


I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.

I'm not sure how you define close, but I'll give you 3 examples:

Electoral College:
2004: 286-251
2000: 271-266

Popular Vote:
2004: 62,040,610 vs. 59,028,111
1960: 34,220984 vs. 34,108, 157

Percent:
2004: 50.7% vs. 48.3%
1968: 43.4% vs. 42.7%
 
U2387 said:


No, he filed the biggest frivolous lawsuit that even his own supreme court had to cover their ass and say dont expect this reasoning to be used to stop future recounts. Gore won, not only the popular vote in nationally, but the popular vote in FLORIDA. I understand and accept what the electoral college is, my point is not to get rid of that, it is that Gore won that as well.Before you accuse me of being a 'liberal' I dont even know what that means - Bush has spent us into oblivion and he calls himself a conservative , have you read Bush v Gore?? Any legal expert will tell you it was a joke- alleging a violation of the voting rights act because procedures differed across Florida counties. That is such BS- by that logic, all voting is a violation of the voting rights act, because the differences were punch card vs machine vs lever that exist everywhere! It was a COMPLETE and UTTER JOKE and the court even admitted that.

I dont know history?? Show me an election decided by a narrower margin than 2004? Maybe 1876, but I doubt it.

A little bit of help- 1976 and 1876 were all slightly bigger wins percentage wise for Tilden and Carter than Bush over Kerry. Good luck finding any that were closer, we'll see who doesnt know history.
 
2861U2 said:


I'm not sure how you define close, but I'll give you 3 examples:

Electoral College:
2004: 286-251
2000: 271-266

Popular Vote:
2004: 62,040,610 vs. 59,028,111
1960: 34,220984 vs. 34,108, 157

Percent:
2004: 50.7% vs. 48.3%
1968: 43.4% vs. 42.7%

I already took care of 2000- it has been proven that the only reason Bush won was the political leanings of the Supreme Court. Just read the decision. 2000 is out, Bush only beat himself in 2004. 1968 results were not the same- they were not head to head as a significant amount of Southerners distrusted Nixon and the Republicans and went for Wallace. 2004 was head to head.As for the popular vote in 1960, I concede that, it was much closer than 2004, so was electoral and percentage. I should have said he won RE ELECTION by smallest margin ever, as the point was he was elected twice, sorry. I was wrong.

My original point stands, however: he lost in 2000, was reelected narrowly in 2004, claimed a mandate only to have his presidency collapse shortly thereafter. There was never a clear mandate for any of his policies or traits, he lost the congress in 2006 and even his own party's primary candidates took pains to stay the hell away from him in 2007/08. Republicans have won despite the unpopularity of their policies- no one supports the deficit, not too many support social security privitization, 70% want an increase in the minimum wage and some kind of gun control, etc. It is just the media has no understanding of economics and the Republicans use that to their advantage. More credit to them, the Democrats dont do the same. Remember them all evoking Reagan and not their current two term president? Funny thing is W was their hero four short years ago.

Sorry again for being wrong on the 1960 part, Kennedy was probably into some shady stuff re: IL and TX and thats why he eeked out a win.
 
Every vote must count!!!!!!
This is a Democracy!!!!!!!
Especially in Florida!!!!!!!!!!!

That is unless you are Barack Obama.
Whatever benefits you, right?
That's all it's ever been about.

The Real McCain is the Real Hillary is the Real Obama.

They all want the power.

I err on the side of counting all the votes but what do I know?
 
Who is the real McCain :wink:

jmst.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh
 
Is that the Battlestar dude?

Speaking of geeks like us, Wanderer, which Buffy writers did you like so much?

Did the one, Goddard end up on Lost?

Also, did you hear The Dark Tower was optioned by JJ Abrams?

/geekness out
 
U2387 said:


I already took care of 2000- it has been proven that the only reason Bush won was the political leanings of the Supreme Court. Just read the decision.

How has that been proven?

I say if you can't work a fucking butterfly ballot your vote should not count.

The real reason Bush won is Al Gore could not carry his home state. If he had, FLORIDA would not have even mattered.
 
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