The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism

[AEON]

from Wikipedia
The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism: Adolf Hitler and Haj Amin Al-Husseini is a self-published 2003 book (ISBN 0595289444) by Chuck Morse.

The book deals with the relationship between Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, and Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany. Morse believes that Amin al-Husseini helped to infuse the ideas of Nazism into political Islam to create a new fascist ideology of Neofascism and religion. He believes that this ideology plays an important role in explaining Islamic terrorism.

The book asserts that Amin al-Husseini furthered the Nazi cause by instigating a "pro-Nazi coup" in the nascent nation of Iraq in 1941, by urging Nazis and pro-Nazi governments in Europe to transport Jews to death camps, by recruiting pro-Nazi Bosnian brigades, and by fomenting violence against Jews in the British Mandate of Palestine.

I plan on picking up this book. It seems like it makes sense considering the propaganda we hear coming from several of the Middle East regimes.

 

[Judah]

I plan on picking up this book. It seems like it makes sense considering the propaganda we hear coming from several of the Middle East regimes.

Terror is terror, no matter what it's reasons for origin. But i'm glad you're interested in finding out what could be the foundational motivation/reason for Islamic terrorism. Many times -- in the media, or in mainstream American political debates -- whenever it's suggested that "we need to understand what are the underlying causes of Islamic fundamentalism," people are invariably told to shut up and stick to the line "they hate our freedom."

Hmm...i wonder if the book above also mentions the purported involvement of representatives of the Catholic Church along with the Moslems:

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_catholic_church.htm
"From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, the Croatian Ustasha and Muslim fundamentalists were openly supported by the Vatican, the Archbishop of Zagreb Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (1898-1960), and the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. "

----------------

I believe the Catholic Church actually helped thousands of people escape eventual Nazi oppression. But there is lots of dodgy history regarding the Church/Nazi relationship.

Even the Church had to enter into weird agreements with the Nazis...no doubt for self-preservation reasons:

http://www.mindshiftinstitute.org/Article_Catholic_Nazi.htm

Also in March 1933, the Vatican became the first government to recognize officially the legitimacy of the Hitler regime. The Concordat of 1933 made it apparent to all concerned that the Vatican did not take a hostile attitude toward Hitler. The agreement conferred legitimacy on the Nazi government. Under the terms of the Concordat, the Vatican was assured its property and wealth would be secure under the Nazi regime and the Hitler government agreed to continue to pay subsidies to the Church. In addition, the independence of the Catholic school system was protected from the Nazis and Catholic parents could choose to send their children to Catholic schools instead of state schools.

In return, the Catholic Church taught obedience to Hitler. Article 32 of the Concordat gave Hitler what he really wanted: the exclusion of the Catholic clergy from all political activity. Catholic clergy were forbidden to be political candidates, political office-holders or to support any politicians. The Church maintained friendly relations with Mussolini's fascist government in Italy; Franco's fascist government in Spain; and Hitler's Nazi government in Germany.

 

[all_i_want]

pro-Nazi bosnian brigades? sounds like a load of crap to me. i mean, lets be serious. Nazis were ridiculously zealous christians, how the hell would they be a part of a grand conspiracy with the arabs? it seems like an inept attempt at connecting the most hated group in the west (nazis) to another hated group (muslims), therefore legitimizing the hate towards the latter.

 

[hiphop]

Chuck Morse cashing in on hate. Well, we all reap what..

What a shit thread. Except, of course, Judah´s post.



edit:
We should not forget to mention Hitler would have not won the election if the Capitalists hadn´t been supporting his campaign. The steel industry - Thyssen, Krupp and the like - supported him because they hoped for a war so they copuld produce more steel - for bullets, guns, tanks, you name it. Hitler would not have been able to continue the war for so long without the weapons produced by Krupp. Another example is the Oberndorfer Mauserwerke, the biggest manufacturing plant in WWII. They still exist todayx and continue to produce - what? Just guess once.

These companies still exist today. You can read about their commitment here: http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/engagement/index.html

and here:
http://mauser.com/index.php?id=27&lang=en
(look at the history, it doesn´t say a lot in between 1898 and 1945 does it)

 

[nbcrusader]

"Independent sources" does not equal objective or factual.

 

[AEON]

Nazis were ridiculously zealous christians

Actually, at the core - Nazism was an occult religion fused with Nietzschean nihilism. It had nothing to do with Christianity. As a matter of fact, Nazism was very anti Christian.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Nazis were ridiculously zealous christians,

As Aeon has already told you, that's not true at al; the 3rd Reich was heavily into the Occult. If you want to verify that info, a quick Google search will turn up a lot of info. Better yet, catch the History Channel's special all about it.

Now, as for Hitler himself, in his autobiography, he wrote many many things against Christianity. He hated it; one thing he wrote was that it was a plague upon the world. A couple of years ago, I posted many of his quotes here in this forum.

 

[hiphop]

Actually, at the core - Nazism was an occult religion fused with Nietzschean nihilism. It had nothing to do with Christianity. As a matter of fact, Nazism was very anti Christian.

Bullshit. Nazism was a political movement, not a religion. They just used old symbols of the Celts for propaganda reasons.

Nazism had a lot to do with Christianity, as sad as it sounds. And guess what, Christians still are paying a percentage of their salary to the Church. This rule was created when Hitler took the land of the big owners - i.e. the Catholic church - for himself and did a deal with them so they could get the money back by taxing the Christians. This tax is still paid today, while we are speaking-. The church did not care to change this rule. This is a reason for many Christians to leave church, because if you don´t pay, you are breaking the law.

Most Germans were conservative Christians who went to Church every Sunday, who dressed their children in nice clothes and prayed when starting a meal, and who held up the ideal of the German Christian family which, of course, was superior to everybody else.


Do me a favor AEON and continue to spread your wrong propaganda phrases elsewhere. Or at least, do it with a little more style. You´re so easy to uncover.

 

[hiphop]

Now, as for Hitler himself, in his autobiography, he wrote many many things against Christianity. He hated it; one thing he wrote was that it was a plague upon the world. A couple of years ago, I posted many of his quotes here in this forum.

Hitler wrote many things, he was a person that was constantly allying with people and then breaking the bond, see the Hitler-Stalin pact.

Leave the "occult" shit out. Or don´t, if you want to perpetuate the myth that this dictator was evil and had a deal with Satan or whatever.

Fact is that a majority of Nazis were brave Christians.

 

[all_i_want]

You can pick up this quote from wikipedia:

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

—Hitler, on his belief in the non-Jewish, anti-materialistic, 'Ario-heroic' spirit of Jesus, later distorted by exoteric Christianity

 

[Zoomerang96]

Nazis were ridiculously zealous christians, how the hell would they be a part of a grand conspiracy with the arabs?

um, no. not even maybe.

himmler in particular.

 

[80sU2isBest]

You can pick up this quote from wikipedia:

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."

—Hitler, on his belief in the non-Jewish, anti-materialistic, 'Ario-heroic' spirit of Jesus, later distorted by exoteric Christianity

Before I post the quotes from his own autobiography, I feel obliged to tell you that none of that quote is about the true Jesus. Hitler had a messed up view of Jesus. If Hitler had some admiration of Jesus, it was only for traits he imagined in his head. Jesus himself was a Jew, and Jesus was not a fighter. If Hitler held Jesus as Lord and Savior, it was for some other Jesus - it was not for Jesus the Christ as written about in the Bible. Therefore, Hitler was not a Christian at all. Anyone can call himself a Christian; doesn't mean he is one. I could call myself an athiest, but my beliefs are totally opposite of an athiest's beliefs - therefore I am not an Athiest.

Here are the quotes I promised you, which show how Hitler felt about Christianity. Remember, these are his own words:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity <is> the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

21st October, 1941, midday

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
"The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the
instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe
transubstantiation>....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

14th December, 1941, midday

"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism,
under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278)

 

[80sU2isBest]

Hitler wrote many things, he was a person that was constantly allying with people and then breaking the bond, see the Hitler-Stalin pact.]

Exactly. In public, Hitler may have claimed to be a Christian, but in his autobiography, he made it quite clear what he really thought about it.

Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

Leave the "occult" shit out. Or don´t, if you want to perpetuate the myth that this dictator was evil and had a deal with Satan or whatever.

Of course he was evil; that is not even in question.

As for the occult, are you claiming to know more about it than the History Channel? The History Channel special doesn't even leave any doubt as to whether the Third Reich was involved in the occult. The byurden is on you to prove them wrong, I'd say.

Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Fact is that a majority of Nazis were brave Christians.

Brave? What's brave about executing millions of people simply for being Jewish, or homosexual, or Catholic, or Gypsies?

Christians? Why do you think they were Christian? Did they say they were? If so, you take their word for it, why? You don't require any proof? As with every other label a person can take upon himself, the proof is in the pudding. You will know a man by his actions. If a man calls himself a Christian and yet his life is chracaterized by anti-Christian behavior, it sheds extreme doubt upon his claim.

 

[nbcrusader]

Hitler wrote many things, he was a person that was constantly allying with people and then breaking the bond, see the Hitler-Stalin pact.

Leave the "occult" shit out. Or don´t, if you want to perpetuate the myth that this dictator was evil and had a deal with Satan or whatever.

Fact is that a majority of Nazis were brave Christians.

Hitler was fascinated in anything that would give him power - including all aspects of the occult.

Leave the "Nazi=Christian" shit out. Or don't if you want to perpetuate another form of hate.

 

[Irvine511]

Hitler was fascinated in anything that would give him power - including all aspects of the occult.

"raiders of the lost ark" is one of my favorite movies ever.

 

[BVS]

I feel obliged to tell you that none of that quote is about the true Jesus. Hitler had a messed up view of Jesus. If Hitler had some admiration of Jesus, it was only for traits he imagined in his head.

Here's the ultimate problem with all public religion. It's all distrorted view, some more than others, but it's all distorted.

I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.

 

[nbcrusader]

Hitler messed up all discussion of religion.

 

[Justin24]

I wish there was no religon.

 

[all_i_want]

obviously not all Christians are Nazis. But except for people like Himmler or Goebbels, I think its safe to assume that most Nazis, as were most Germans, were Christians. Although as 80s pointed out, not every self-proclaimed christian is a true christian. hitler himself, especially, had a quite warped sense of christianity. just like extremist islamist terrorists have a warped sense of islam.

given that, the Nazi=Christian thing doesnt hold any water. Just like the Terrorist=Muslim thing doesnt.

Anyway, going back to the original point, i dont think Nazis and muslims had a pact to overtake the world through fascism.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Here's the ultimate problem with all public religion. It's all distrorted view, some more than others, but it's all distorted.

I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.

BVS, Hitler said that Jesus was a non-Jew and a fighter. He is wrong on both counts. Jesus was definitely a Jew, and of all the writings we have on Jesus, Biblical and non-Biblical, none mention Jesus as a fighter. In fact, it is written that he lived by his motto "Turn the other cheek". It follows, therefore, that Hitler's view of Jesus was undoubtedly incorrect.

I do not know how my point could be any clearer.

 

[80sU2isBest]

obviously not all Christians are Nazis. But except for people like Himmler or Goebbels, I think its safe to assume that most Nazis, as were most Germans, were Christians.

It's not safe to assume that; you even point that out yourself, below:

Although as 80s pointed out, not every self-proclaimed christian is a true christian.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true.

Well good since they both spread the hate and inflict damage.

The meeting between Hitler and al-Husayni is documented in Albert Speers biography "Inside the Third Reich".

His wikipedia article also covers the issue.

 

[all_i_want]

It's not safe to assume that; you even point that out yourself, below:

well, then i could argue that terrorists who wage the so-called 'jihad' are not muslims either. would you then refrain from referring to them as muslims? i dont think so.

 

[BVS]

BVS, Hitler said that Jesus was a non-Jew and a fighter. He is wrong on both counts. Jesus was definitely a Jew, and of all the writings we have on Jesus, Biblical and non-Biblical, none mention Jesus as a fighter. In fact, it is written that he lived by his motto "Turn the other cheek". It follows, therefore, that Hitler's view of Jesus was undoubtedly incorrect.

I do not know how my point could be any clearer.

I wasn't arguing your point. If you read my response, you would know that. I just used your response as a springboard to show how religion DOES get distorted. That's it.

This is at least the second time in the last week where you've made a somewhat snippy response to someone who was in essence agreeing with you. Maybe you should re-read people's post before responding so quickly.

 

[Harry Vest]

Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.

 

[all_i_want]

Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.

oh boy.

its easy to connect nazis to everyone from christians to muslims, from homosexuals to god knows who else, i guess. lets not attach the swastika to all these groups and aggrevate each other.

 

[AEON]

Well good since they both spread the hate and inflict damage.

The meeting between Hitler and al-Husayni is documented in Albert Speers biography "Inside the Third Reich".

His wikipedia article also covers the issue.

"Inside the Third Reich" is a great read - albeit, a tough one to read. Speers is so relatable, which makes his story that more tragic and eerie.

 

[hiphop]

Hitler was fascinated in anything that would give him power - including all aspects of the occult.

Leave the "Nazi=Christian" shit out. Or don't if you want to perpetuate another form of hate.

I think you misunderstood me.

By no means have I said Nazi=Christian. And as to 80s, sure Hitler was evil and has nothing to do with what Christianity in its origins stands for. Just allow us to get the historical point of view and the religious point of view clearly. When I say a majority of Nazis were Christians, that´s just statistics - there weren´t living many Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists in Germany at that time, and a majority of Germans who voted for Hitler were Christians.

Isn´t it a desperate tragedy that apparently people from all religions are able to commit the most atrocious crimes. We could skip back to Christian crusades or the middle age not even mentioning WWII. And when we do, it is important to remember that National Socialism was a political movement, NSDAP were a party. People who declared themselves to be Christians, who actually were Christians, killed Jews in concentration camps- as difficult as this seems to be to accept.

Is that human nature? No, it is not human, one would like to believe. "The Nazi connection to Islamic terrorism" - what is that piece of bullshit! Come on. The whole purpose of this book is to stir hate.

So it is still important to stress (sigh.. after 60 years) that Hitler wasn´t a crazed up madmen occult blah blah whatever because when you label a dictator like, how can you judge the whole social envirnment that led to the wide acceptance of this kind of dictator? How can you judge the people around him that supported him in the first place, when these people still this was a madman in a mad time to play down their own crimes?

It is very dangerous to play this down, and that´s essentially what the political parties in Austria did up to the 70s. Let´s not talk about it. Lol. Before Hitler rolled over Austria in 1938, we even had Austro-Fascism. Now what kind of movement do you think that was? Dollfuss was a conservative Christian. he was murdered by Austrian Nazis later, but not before becoming chancellor with dictatorial powers in 1933 and shooting Socialists in an uprising in 1934.

The historical dimension and the social background (as social, tied to a certain lifestyle, religion, culture) at that time is a little more complicated than anything you may have thought I meant to say in my last post.

 

[80sU2isBest]

IThis is at least the second time in the last week where you've made a somewhat snippy response to someone who was in essence agreeing with you. Maybe you should re-read people's post before responding so quickly.

BVS, in the post to which I was responding, you said:

"I can't stand those that claim that the hatred spread by Christianity is a manipulated view, yet the hate spread by the Muslim religion is true."

That was in response to my assertion that Hitler had a distorted view of Christianity.

Surely, you won't sit there and tell me that you don't see why I failed to see that you were "agreeing" with me.

As for the other post, first I'll say: How can the following be characterized as "snippy"?

I wasn't "sneaking in" anything. The "wacko" statement was a sneak-in. I was openly stating that this was not the place for it.

I'm not arguing about whether Republicans are "wacko". I'm pointing out that this thread is not the place for it.

Secondly, I'll say that you are the one who needs to go back and read that post again. The person was taking issue with what I wrote, not to what was written by the person to whom I was responding.

"I was wondering how long it would be before someone just had to sneak in a little retort. The way it stays argument free is in choosing not argue the points here. I've read a lot of stuff I disagree with hetr, but if we're going to argue about, for example whether "Republicans are wacko" that should happen on another thread. I agree, it's not fair for someone to use this thread to "take potshots" but in order for the thread to serve what I understant to be it's intended purpose, we have to grit our teeth and ignore the occasional cheap shot."

The person was referring to me, not the person who called Republicans "wacko".

I was the one who used the term "argument free", not the person to whom I was replying.

Also, consider the word "retort", which is defined thusly:

Retort's definition is "To reply, especially to answer in a quick, caustic, or witty manner".

I was the only one doing any "retorting". The comment I was responding to was an insult, not a retort.

 

[Judah]

Hitler was indeed into the Occult - in fact Black Magic played it's part with many of the top ranking Nazi's. I really don't want to start something here but many of Hitlers henchmen were woman hating homosexuals (coincidentaly so are many of the Islamic militants - not all mind you - but many). This is not saying anything against typical gay males but what I am talking about here is much more sinister i.e. The Taliban
A good friend of mine was sent over to Afghanistan back in 2003 and had lots of contact with these guys - his take on it was that there were "way more homo's than I ever thought there would be" amongst the Taliban he helped capture. He was quite shocked actually - I must say I always suspected this though. Any male who's gonna whip a female for showing her ankle is a sick and twisted individual. Again, I am not saying anything against the typical gay male out there but this kind of thing is like I said before - much more sinister. I better shut up now before this gets out of control.

The homosexuality you speak of in Afghanistan is cultural...been part of that region way before Islam got there. Moslems in these regions have integrated the cultural practice in a manner that is not deemed "unIslamic." The Taliban, and their extreme fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic traditions, had banned any acts deemed homosexual. Since the Taliban were ousted, this practice has been practiced as it was before.

http://www.globalgayz.com/g-afghanistan.html

"... (3) Sex between men is "frowned upon, but accepted" so long as the participants also marry and have children; and also if they keep quiet about this activity. (4) The key distinction is not hetero vs. homosexual but active vs. passive; men are expected to seek penetration (with wives, prostitutes, other males, animals); the only real shame is attached to serving in the female role. (5) Youths usually serve in the female role and can leave behind this shame by graduating to the male role. (6) The great Muslim emphasis on family life renders homosexuality far less threatening to Muslim societies than to Western ones (Muslim men seeking formally to marry each other remains unimaginable)."

...

"Whether the activity is mutual or forceful, there is an almost universal attitude in these eastern cultures that such sexual indulgence is not ‘gay’, that is, it's not sex or love between two men who identify as homosexuals. (In Afghanistan it's common for the older participants to be married with kids.) Rather, in a collective mental shell game the meaning of sex is re-framed: heterosexual men engage in homosexual behavior in which the younger guy is not a ‘fem’ but obedient and passive and the older one is not a ‘butch queer’ but assertive and active."