The myth of DDT versus the reality of malaria in Africa

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I'm pretty sure the anti-malaria drugs aren't 100% effective. I know someone who got malaria after a semester in Ghana. We were told that it would still be possible to get malaria even though we took the drugs on schedule our entire month in Tanzania (well, you start a few days before and continue for a bit afterwards). In fact, if we have any fever for a year and a half after this past January, we have to be checked (I've already had to go in twice) and I don't think we can give blood for a few years. Some of the drugs make you sick. A friend of mine who went to Kenya a few years back threw hers up every day after taking them and couldn't help it. :(
 
The stuff that was sprayed in your room was probably not DDT but was surely some sort of bugspray chemical concoction. Also, even if you take medications you can still come down with malaria. I take doxycycline every day and it makes me nauseous. I'd almost rather get sick with malaria. :huh: Almost, but not quite.

Anyways, basically malaria is a parasite that lives in your liver and each life cycle (eggs hatch, send little critters into your bloodstream) you risk getting sick. The meds you take as prophalaxis try to kill the little bastards when they are on the run through your blood, but they don't kill the ones that are waiting in your liver to reproduce. which is why you can still get sick with malaria after leaving a endemic zone. (you can tell i'm not a doctor with my haphazard explanations. lol)
 
cardosino said:
And as for the pharmaceutical companies, they are beholden to their shareholders, blame THEM if you want to blame anyone for the companies' desire to turn a profit.

Oh I do. Don't worry. That's often why I want to say "fuck it" to privatized health care and socialize the entire damn thing. "Health care" for "profit" is an oxymoron.

Melon
 
melon said:


Oh I do. Don't worry. That's often why I want to say "fuck it" to privatized health care and socialize the entire damn thing. "Health care" for "profit" is an oxymoron.

Melon

I've lived in a socialized medicine society, I prefer the system we have here in the US
 
cardosino said:


I've lived in a socialized medicine society, I prefer the system we have here in the US

I think you are the first I've ever heard admit that...interesting.

I know a lot of conservatives who've actually changed their views after living in a socialized medicine society.
 
The phrase 'socialised medicine' does not even exist in Europe.

We take a decent level of public health care for granted, and complain like mad if we don't get it. Not that our healthcare systems are perfect, far from it.

Health care is a fundamental human right, and any wealthy society that doesn't give it to all its citizens, is uncivilised.

It's as simple as that.
 
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It is easy to make grand pronouncements like that. What level of healthcare is deemed a right? Also, how can it be a "right" when it requires someone else to pay for it.
 
nbcrusader said:
It is easy to make grand pronouncements like that. What level of healthcare is deemed a right? Also, how can it be a "right" when it requires someone else to pay for it.


medicine/health care is not a commodity. to view it as such is barbaric.

yes, someone pays for it, but it cannot be viewed in the same way that one views other products in a market system. it can be argued that, if you pay for it, it's a commodity, but that's indicative of black-and-white thinking. it's in society's best interests to ensure that all citizens receive at least a basic level of health care. let's take Japan as an example. over there, you'll find some of the lowest levels of HIV transmission on earth (actually, *the* lowest, i believe). why? universal health care, comprehensive sex education in schools, and a positive social attitude towards condoms.

education is also not a commodity, but that's a slightly different concept.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


I think you are the first I've ever heard admit that...interesting.

I know a lot of conservatives who've actually changed their views after living in a socialized medicine society.

Maybe they haven't had to deal with the NHS in the UK
 
financeguy said:
The phrase 'socialised medicine' does not even exist in Europe.


The word "aluminum" doesn't exist in Europe, but the Brits and Irish do use that material, they just call it "aluminium"



financeguy said:

We take a decent level of public health care for granted, and complain like mad if we don't get it. Not that our healthcare systems are perfect, far from it.

I don't know what you have in Ireland, but the NHS in Britain is far from a "decent level of public health" IMO, I lived there for 22 years so I do know what it's like

financeguy said:

Health care is a fundamental human right, and any wealthy society that doesn't give it to all its citizens, is uncivilised.

It's as simple as that.

Really ??? This is news to me. Where exactly does it say that ? I know that it *should* be.....
 
cardosino said:
Really ??? This is news to me. Where exactly does it say that ? I know that it *should* be.....

the UN's international covenant on economic, social and cultural rights:

1. The States Parties to the present Covenant recognize the right of everyone to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health.

2. The steps to be taken by the States Parties to the present Covenant to achieve the full realization of this right shall include those necessary for:

(a) The provision for the reduction of the stillbirth-rate and of infant mortality and for the healthy development of the child;
(b) The improvement of all aspects of environmental and industrial hygiene;

(c) The prevention, treatment and control of epidemic, endemic, occupational and other diseases;

(d) The creation of conditions which would assure to all medical service and medical attention in the event of sickness.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/a_cescr.htm
 
Silly dandy, don't you know UN covenants and resolutions are only there to slap other countries in the face with? :wink:
 
If you would like a more scientific look at DDT try this website

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search

Listed are 16 685 toxicology articles, 374 developmental and reproductive toxicology articles, articles on carcinogenicity and mutagenicity, environmental toxicology and the environmental fate of the chemical and metabolism in a wide range of animal species with regard to DDT.

This abstract is from the World Health Organisation.

Authors:

WHO working group

Source: Environmental Health Criteria , 83 (1989) 98 p


Abstract:

Physical and Chemical Properties: DDT is an organochlorine insecticide which is a white crystalline solid, tasteless and almost odourless. Technical DDT, which is principally the p,p' isomer, has been formulated in almost every conceivable form. Uptake. Accumulation, and Degradation: The physicochemical properties of DDT and its metabolites enable these compounds to be taken up readily by organisms. High lipid solubility and low water solubility lead to the retention of DDT and its stable metabolites in fatty tissue. The rates of accumulation into organisms vary with the species, with the duration and concentration of exposure, and with environmental conditions (BCFs in flow-through systems; Daphnia = 114 000, fish = 8500-154 000). The high retention of DDT metabolites means that toxic effects can occur in organisms remote in time and geographical area from the point of exposure. These compounds are resistant to breakdown and are readily adsorbed to sediments and soils that can act both as sinks and as long-term sources of exposure (e.g., for soil organisms). Organisms can accumulate these chemicals from the surrounding medium and from food. In aquatic organisms, uptake from the water is generally more important, whereas, in terrestrial fauna, food provides the major source. In general, organisms at higher trophic levels tend to contain more DDT-type compounds than those at lower trophic levels. Such compounds can be transported around the world in the bodies of migrant animals and in ocean and air currents. Toxicity to Microorganisms: Aquatic microorganisms are more sensitive than terrestrial ones to DDT. An environmental exposure concentration of 0.1 ug/litre can cause inhibition of growth and photosynthesis in green algae. Repeated applications of DDT can lead to the development of tolerance in some microorganisms. There is no information concerning the effects on species composition of microorganism communities. Therefore, it is difficult to extrapolate the relevance of single-culture studies to aquatic or terrestrial ecosystems. However, since microorganisms are basic in food chains, adverse effects on their populations would influence ecosystems. Thus, DDT and its metabolites should be regarded as a major environmental hazard. Toxicity to Aquatic Invertebrates: Both the acute and long-term toxicities of DDT vary between species of aquatic invertebrates. Early developmental stages are. more sensitive than adults to DDT. Long-term effects occur after exposure to concentrations ten to a hundred times lower than those causing short-term effects. DDT is highly toxic, in acute exposure, to aquatic invertebrates at concentrations as low as 0.3 ug/litre (Daphnia, 48-h LC50 = 0,5-4.7 ug/l (static tests)). Toxic effects include impairment of reproduction and development, cardiovascular modifications, and neurological changes. Daphnia reproduction is adversely affected by DDT at 0.5 ug/litre. The influence of environmental variables (such as temperature, water hardness, etc.) is documented but the mechanism is not fully understood. In contrast to the data on DDT, there is little information on the metabolites DDE or TDE. The reversibility of some effects, once exposure ceases, and the development of resistance have been reported. Toxicity to Fish: DDT is highly toxic to fish; the 96-h LC50s reported (static tests) range from 1.5 to 56 ug/litre (for largemouth bass and guppy, respectively). Smaller fish are more susceptible than larger ones of the same species. An increase in temperature decreases the toxicity of DDT to fish. The behaviour of fish is influenced by DDT. Goldfish exposed to 1 ug/litre exhibit hyperactivity. Changes in the feeding of young fish are caused by DDT levels commonly found in nature, and effects on temperature preference have been reported. Residue levels of > 2.4 mg/kg in eggs of the winter flounder result in abnormal embryos in the laboratory, and comparable residue levels have been found to relate to the death of lake trout fry in the wild. Cellular respiration may be the main toxic target of DDT since there are reports of effects on ATPase. The toxicity of TDE and DDE has been less studied than that of DDT. However, the data available on rainbow trout and bluegill sunfish show that TDE and DDE are both less toxic than DDT. Toxicity to Amphibians: The toxicity of DDT and its metabolites to amphibians varies from species to species; although only a few data are available, amphibian larvae seem to be more sensitive than adults to DDT. TDE seems to be more toxic than DDT to amphibians, but there are no data available for DDE. All the studies reported have been static tests and, therefore, results should be treated with caution. Toxicity to Terrestrial Invertebrates: There have been few reports on the effects of DDT and its metabolites on non-target terrestrial invertebrates. Earthworms are insensitive to the acutely toxic effects of these compounds at levels higher than those likely to be found in the environment. The uptake of DDT by earthworms is related to the concentrations in soil and to the activity of the worms; seasonally greater activity increases uptake. Thus, although earthworms are unlikely to be seriously affected by DDT, they pose a major hazard to predators because of the residues they can tolerate. Both DDT and DDE are classified as being relatively non-toxic to honey bees, with a topical LD60 of 27 ug/bee. There are no reports on laboratory studies using DDE or TDE, in spite of the fact that these are major contaminants of soil. Toxicity to Birds: DDT have moderate to low toxicity to birds when given as an acute oral dose (LD50 = 600 - > 4000) or in the diet (5-day LC50 = 300-900). DDT and its metabolites can lower the reproductive rate of birds by causing eggshell thinning (which leads to egg breakage) and by causing embryo deaths. However, different groups of birds vary greatly in their sensitivity to these chemicals; predatory birds are extremely sensitive and, in the wild, often show marked shell thinning, whilst gallinaceous birds are relatively insensitive. Because of the difficulties of breeding birds of prey in captivity, most of the experimental work has been done with insensitive species, which have often shown little or no shell thinning. The few studies on more sensitive species have shown shell thinning at levels similar to those found in the wild. The lowest dietary concentration of DDT reported to cause shell thinning experimentally was 0.6 mg/kg for the black duck. The mechanism of shell thinning is not fully understood. Toxicity to non-laboratory Mammals: Experimental work suggests that some species, notably bats, may have been affected by DDT and its metabolites. Species which show marked seasonal cycles in fat content are most vulnerable, but few experimental studies on such species have been made. In contrast to the situation in birds, where the main effect of DDT is on reproduction, the main known effect in mammals is to increase the mortality of migrating adults. The lowest acute dose which kills American big brown bats is 20 mg/kg. Bats collected from the wild (and containing residues of DDE in fat) die after experimental starvation, which simulates loss of fat during migration.



The major issues with DDT are:

1. It bioaccumulates, ie it builds up in the fatty tissue of animals along the food chain.
2. It does not readily break down, so exists for a long time in the soil/water or whereever it is found.
3. It has been shown to be a possible human carcinogen at low levels of exposure.
4. It has reproductive impacts.

I think that the negatives out weigh the positives and I am sure there are other much more suitable alternatives.
 
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I wish I recalled the links I found the other night...a series of independent research articles I'll try to dig up. I'd add to tania's list that it has been linked pretty strongly (the suspected mechanism is DDT's estrogenic properties) to reduced period of lactation and also to low-birthweight babies. Both of those can be considerable risks to developing nations fighting battles against hunger and other diseases.
There are also some DDT-resistant breeds of mosquitoes...
I think it would be silly not to look at the relative risks in deciding whether DDT should be used in limited ways to destroy mosquitoes, but other means should be researched and continued and its use should be seriously monitored and limited so that it doesn't get widespread in the environment.

Good to see the conservatives worried about malaria, better if they then got together with actual experts in these issues to work out the best way to go and not just slam environmental protection groups or cry end-all-regulatory-protection with every possible fibre of their public beings...

cheers..
 

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