The most trusted NEWS source in America?

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Although, it is interesting to see Fox presenters coming around to reverse positions on arguments from nearly ten years ago.
 
2861U2 said:
No.

The FNC story you're referring to is the clip of Fox and Friends running cricket sounds after Obama's jokes at the SOTU, right? If so, you need to re-read my original post on that. I said it was childish and stupid, and I don't think anyone in here is disputing that. Ditto for the Egypt graphic. Bad journalism.

However, if people are going to cite that as proof that FNC is not news, then you MUST say the same thing about MSNBC after selectively editing the footage I posted. You MUST. There's no way around it. All I hear in here are people proclaiming FNC as not a news organization, but never MSNBC despite examples of such deceit and irresponsibility. Will you admit that MSNBC is not news? The fact that people here say "sure, the primetime is biased, but the rest of the day is credible stuff" is just baffling. Apparently you don't concur. :shrug:
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You want me to say Fox and MSNBC cancel each other out, and that's just not true. It's not. I can't in good conscious say it's true, because it isn't. Fox is much, much worse. They have a much tighter agenda, a larger audience, and have done more harm than all other networks combined.
 
This whole Fox vs. NBC thing is kinda funny, like you guys are rooting for teams.

How about we agree they are both shitty and suitable for light popcorn political entertainment at best?

If I want big boy news I watch/read the BBC, read The Economist or listen to NPR political analysis.
 
The part I liked was Beck bringing up the “Why do they hate us?” question. He said it wasn’t because “they hate our freedom” as per George W Bush, that it was because of the history of US policies and actions in the region. Of course, from there, he takes it off into complete nuttyland, but still, he said this on FOX NEWS.

Remember, the “why do they hate us” question was one of the major, major battlegrounds back in the immediate post 9/11 years. If in those with-us-or-against-us years of 01-03, you had the balls to dare suggest that it was, perhaps, only even in just some small, tiny part, possibly because of US/Western policies and actions in the region, you would have copped a barrage of abuse from Fox hosts for a good month afterwards. ANTI-AMERICAN! ANTI-AMERICAN! And yet, I've seen both Beck and O'Reilly - and to a tiny, tiny degree, Hannity - suggest the same thing in recent days. Beck explicitly. Amazing. Only took nine and a half years. And a political need to steer the rage back around in the other direction.

Of course Beck wasn’t around back then. But I guess if he was, he might not have screamed anti-American, he would have just asked a few questions. Why did this person say this thing? WELL! Just saying, but, you know, here’s a photo of him eating a FALAFEL!!! In PARIS!!!

WHY IS NO-ONE ELSE TELLING YOU THIS!?!?

WHY?

WHY!?!?
 
Earnie Shavers said:
WHY IS NO-ONE ELSE TELLING YOU THIS!?!?

WHY?

WHY!?!?
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and this gets to the true beating heart of Fox News.

comparisons about MSNBC are totally besides the point, and besides Fox's MO. they don't care about MSNBC. Fox cares about CNN, ABC, CBS, and ABC, and the NYT, Time, Newsweek, and all the other "mainstream" media that try very hard to genuinely report actual news. often, the news doesn't jive well with conservative policies, hence we saw the rise of the "media bias" charge in the early 1990s -- something that Bill Kristol admitted in 1996 was akin to "working the refs" -- and then the rise of Fox, as a place where you could get the real truth, the real news, from people who were just brave enough to ask questions. suddenly, all those people telling you not to believe the actual news were right! there was a media bias! and look! now we have Fox! sure, it's biased, but so is every other news outlet, right? i mean, what is truth, you know?

Fox has succeeded in destabilizing credible information for a certain segment of the population, and it allows preposterous paranoid nonsense like Beck an outlet, all dressed up as "news," now that it's discredited actual news, at least in your mind.

it has nothing to do with MSNBC. that's a sideshow. Fox is after reality itself.
 
I blame Fox News for my parents' belief that when I get off the plane in Dublin this fall, I'll be greeted by an angry mob of bat-wielding Irish folks just waiting to beat up an American.
 
corianderstem said:
I blame Fox News for my parents' belief that when I get off the plane in Dublin this fall, I'll be greeted by an angry mob of bat-wielding Irish folks just waiting to beat up an American.
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As people become older, I am finding they become more insular and have stronger, more conservative beliefs.

I have decided to just start ignoring people more and more on an increasing scale based on age.
 
^What I got out of that was: "Look guys,' Muslim Brotherhood as a threat is exagerrated' is not a very exciting story. Couldn't we just stick with the more exciting story, facts be damned?"
 
i can't remember if this has been posted or not, but i came across this: January 2011 Ratings: Fox News on Top for 9 Years; Beats MSNBC, CNN Combined - TVNewser

The network was down -21% in Total Viewers and -31% in younger viewers compared to January 2010 (Total Day, Mon-Sun), which was a big month for cable news viewership due to the earthquake in Haiti.

just thought it was worth mentioning.

however, before anyone comes in and says all cable news networks experienced decline, this isn't true: January 2011 Ratings: MSNBC Only Cable News Network to Show Growth - TVNewser

Overall, MSNBC was the only cable news channel to grow year-over-year: +23% in Total Viewers and +25% in younger viewers (total day, Mon-Sun).
 
maycocksean said:
^What I got out of that was: "Look guys,' Muslim Brotherhood as a threat is exagerrated' is not a very exciting story. Couldn't we just stick with the more exciting story, facts be damned?"
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It's got nothing to do with excitement, or picking the most exciting/sensational angle for entertainment. I only really chime in on Fox mocking normally to have a go at the style, rather than the substance, because obviously it's 99% about US domestic issues. I hate the style, no matter the subject. It's shouty and stupid, designed to show you nothing and teach you nothing, basically. And they make no attempt at being a 'news' channel at all. But on US domestic stuff, I really don't pay much attention beyond the style to the detail of the substance, because - obviously - it doesn't effect me.

But when Fox do dare drift into foreign events or international news, I do pay attention, and finding fault in the substance is like shooting fish in a barrel. They get virtually nothing right historically or factually. They so obviously push more than just an 'entertaining angle', but a clear aim of whipping up hysteria among people too stupid to know any different, or trained to be too distrustful of any other source other than their own. Their 'coverage' (and its not really coverage, its just commentary - the actual news networks do the coverage) has just been one massive echo chamber of extreme to seriously extreme wrongness, basically. The line, angle, agenda (whatever) they're all to some degree taking on Egypt has not only been mostly wrong factually, but wholly wrong morally. And desperately as always trying to drag it back to US domestic politics somehow. It is - to be blunt - fucking disgusting.

It's when something like this happens that you think that maybe there might be some people out there who, you know, watch the real story coming from Egypt by day - perhaps from a proper news network like the BBC, who have correspondents permanently on the ground in Egypt (not just anchors parachuted in for a few days of glory), mixed with educated and educational insight from various academics, diplomats etc who have decades of experience in this country and region (not the same dozen endlessly recycled domestic political hacks pretending to suddenly understand the intricacies of Egyptian opposition politics) - who then tune into their favourite blowhard on Fox at night, and seeing the massive disconnect between reality and the line their favourite Fox guy is pushing, perhaps have their eyes opened a little, and perhaps think... maybe it's not just this time, or this topic... hmmm...

But I doubt it, because I think Fox have their market pegged and trained pretty well. Too stupid, or too scared, or both. Have a look around a few well known US conservative websites, in forums or comments sections. They're right now cheering on the pro-Mubarak supporters as they lob petrol bombs onto peaceful pro-democracy supporters. Well done Fox!
 
what's amazing is the schizophrenia on the Right.

on one end you have: Egyptians protesting = empowered Muslims wanting democracy = what Bush wanted all along, vindication of everything he ever did.

and then you have: Obama asks Mubarack steps down = radical Islamists rise to power = Obama's a secret Muslim just like we told you.
 
Irvine511 said:
what's amazing is the schizophrenia on the Right.
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Yes, but...

Irvine511 said:
on one end you have: Egyptians protesting = empowered Muslims wanting democracy = what Bush wanted all along, vindication of everything he ever did.
Click to expand...

The ones with this view seem to be mostly publishing or promoting it in those elitist places, so probably not going to get much attention from Real Americans. But its a good view, as long as its a belief in what Bush was preaching being right. If its vindication of how Bush chose to put that into practice - you'd be dead wrong. And I'd say it's about 50/50 on that one.

Irvine511 said:
and then you have: Obama asks Mubarack steps down = radical Islamists rise to power = Obama's a secret Muslim just like we told you.
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Not only is Obama a secret Muslim, but he PLANNED THIS and it means that the fires that are burning the whole world will soon be turning into a Caliphate including America apart from the bits that are China and Russia (like the Netherlands) and Code Pink started it because they are the Muslim Brotherhood in Chicago from Kenya. Just like France did.
 
Earnie Shavers said:
Not only is Obama a secret Muslim, but he PLANNED THIS and it means that the fires that are burning the whole world will soon be turning into a Caliphate including America apart from the bits that are China and Russia (like the Netherlands) and Code Pink started it because they are the Muslim Brotherhood in Chicago from Kenya. Just like France did.
Click to expand...

Oh why couldn't he just have been an out-of-touch, over-educated, liberal elitest that goes to a radical black Christian church that associates with domestic terrorists? WHY?!?!
 
Earnie Shavers said:
It's got nothing to do with excitement, or picking the most exciting/sensational angle for entertainment. I only really chime in on Fox mocking normally to have a go at the style, rather than the substance, because obviously it's 99% about US domestic issues. I hate the style, no matter the subject. It's shouty and stupid, designed to show you nothing and teach you nothing, basically. And they make no attempt at being a 'news' channel at all. But on US domestic stuff, I really don't pay much attention beyond the style to the detail of the substance, because - obviously - it doesn't effect me.

But when Fox do dare drift into foreign events or international news, I do pay attention, and finding fault in the substance is like shooting fish in a barrel. They get virtually nothing right historically or factually. They so obviously push more than just an 'entertaining angle', but a clear aim of whipping up hysteria among people too stupid to know any different, or trained to be too distrustful of any other source other than their own. Their 'coverage' (and its not really coverage, its just commentary - the actual news networks do the coverage) has just been one massive echo chamber of extreme to seriously extreme wrongness, basically. The line, angle, agenda (whatever) they're all to some degree taking on Egypt has not only been mostly wrong factually, but wholly wrong morally. And desperately as always trying to drag it back to US domestic politics somehow. It is - to be blunt - fucking disgusting.

It's when something like this happens that you think that maybe there might be some people out there who, you know, watch the real story coming from Egypt by day - perhaps from a proper news network like the BBC, who have correspondents permanently on the ground in Egypt (not just anchors parachuted in for a few days of glory), mixed with educated and educational insight from various academics, diplomats etc who have decades of experience in this country and region (not the same dozen endlessly recycled domestic political hacks pretending to suddenly understand the intricacies of Egyptian opposition politics) - who then tune into their favourite blowhard on Fox at night, and seeing the massive disconnect between reality and the line their favourite Fox guy is pushing, perhaps have their eyes opened a little, and perhaps think... maybe it's not just this time, or this topic... hmmm...

But I doubt it, because I think Fox have their market pegged and trained pretty well. Too stupid, or too scared, or both. Have a look around a few well known US conservative websites, in forums or comments sections. They're right now cheering on the pro-Mubarak supporters as they lob petrol bombs onto peaceful pro-democracy supporters. Well done Fox!
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I agree with your assessment, but my point is it's all in the service of the Almighty Dollar. This approach you've described brings viewers. At the end it's all about the money.

And I maintain that enterainment has everything to do with it. Our culture has become overwhelmingly oriented around entertainment as the highest good. Short attention spans, simplistic story lines, good guys and bad guys--that's what we're all about.

I've come to conclude that all the Republicans really need is someone who is more charismatic than Obama and they'll win in 2012. When was the last time the less telegenic guy won the presidency in this country?
 
Earnie Shavers said:
And I love this. You know Hannity fired a researcher after this.


YouTube - Even Hannity's Conservative Guests Think He's Exaggerating Islamic Threat In Egypt
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This is really astounding, though unsurprising.

The video can be summed up thusly: "Excuse me WHY are you, Mr. Scholar of Arab politics and history and national of Egypt DOWNPLAYING the influence of ISLAMIC JIHADISM in Egypt? What? The Muslim Brotherhood has never gotten over 20% of votes in an election? Listen, Mr. Arab man, 20% PLUS the military which doesn't align itself with the Muslim Brotherhood in ANY DEMONSTRABLE WAY (we'll ignore this for now), I have to cut you off because I don't understand why you refuse to tell my viewers that they're all going to be blown up by an Islamic Jihadist wearing a suicide belt disguised as a Walmart greeter."

Truly, the Americans who watch this show and think that it has journalistic rigour and believe it are beyond hope. Hopeless. Unreachable. Total lost causes. Their brains have atrophied.
 
20% in an election that had only 20% turnout. So 4%. And then he points out that the MB make damn sure all of their people get out there and vote, while among the larger population, there's understandably strong apathy. So that 4% is an accurate reader - and you get some idea of their real influence/size, and where they'd really stand in a real, open, free election with large turnout, and it's not to Hannity's liking. Does not fit the anti-Islam bullshit FREAKOUTAMERICA!!!! narrative.
 
Maybe we're living through some sort of funhouse-mirror rehash of the 60s...instead of weed-addled fantasies of sticking it to the Man inaugurating an unprecedented utopia of peace and brotherhood, we get Ritalin-addled nightmares of being ravished by a resurgent Golden Horde casting us back to the Dark Ages.
 
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From that Guardian link...

The 44th president and Joseph Biden [should] be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanours. At that point the speaker of the house, John Boehner, will become the 45th president of our nation. I'm asking John Boehner to use our military power to quell the uprising that is currently threatening the government of Hosni Mubarak
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Ummmmmm...WHAT?

Also, the "Black Panther" quote from Michael Savage may well be one of THE stupidest things I've ever heard anyone say. Yes, Savage, naturally that's what Obama meant with that :rolleyes:. My god.

And please, PLEASE, let's not start dragging Biblical apocalypse crap into this. Maybe Joseph Farah's in the mood for a holy war, but I'm kinda not.

That is truly frightening and horribly sad, that link. I'm glad they're bringing attention to the nutjob viewpoints, but looking at those quotes/clips, good lord.

anitram said:
Truly, the Americans who watch this show and think that it has journalistic rigour and believe it are beyond hope. Hopeless. Unreachable. Total lost causes. Their brains have atrophied.
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I saw a clip the other night from his show where he was saying that the only other democracy that's sprung up from an uprising of this sort has been in Iraq, and that he couldn't think of any other instance in history where that's happened.

Yeah. Not kidding.

I just love how everyone's freaking out over the thought of extremists taking over there, and how therefore this apparent threat naturally signals the U.S. needs to go in and set up/support Egypt's government again when Mubarak finally leaves. 'Cause, you know, the last time we did that, it worked out so well, as we can obviously see.

Angela
 
I think the BBC World Service is probably the *hard" news source I trust the most.

You know it's fairly apolitical and newsy when you fall asleep after half an hour of listening before bed.

As for NPR I don't know why they get the bashing they do from the right, and the conservative general public. I usually find their coverage to be more "in depth" than "biased". If being able to examine nuance, and peel away the layers of an issue in an intelligent cross-examination is the hallmark of being a liberal, than I guess they are a bunch of fucking pinkos then.

MSNBC
Fox News
(sometimes) CNN
= I feel like I am getting an editorial opinion about how I should feel about an issue.

BBC News
NPR
= I feel like I get to make up my own opinion on an issue.
 
the iron horse said:
So what is the most trusted news source in the world?
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In the world? BBC, easily. No competition really. The International version of CNN is certainly much, much better than the US domestic version, but still have nothing on the BBC. Those are the only two that really have strong reach beyond local/regional. Fox broadcasts anywhere Murdoch has a decent presence - so, extensively - but they're not a global network, purely US domestic, and are regarded as a complete joke outside the US. And throughout the Bush years, were a pretty bad advertisement for the US, actually. BBC has the insane reach, unmatched experience, and stellar content still presented the way news channels should.
 
Earnie Shavers said:
In the world? BBC, easily. No competition really. The International version of CNN is certainly much, much better than the US domestic version, but still have nothing on the BBC. Those are the only two that really have strong reach beyond local/regional. Fox broadcasts anywhere Murdoch has a decent presence - so, extensively - but they're not a global network, purely US domestic, and are regarded as a complete joke outside the US. And throughout the Bush years, were a pretty bad advertisement for the US, actually. BBC has the insane reach, unmatched experience, and stellar content still presented the way news channels should.
Click to expand...

I love that our local NPR station broadcasts the BBC from 11pm to 5am; the best of both worlds.
 
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