The mosaic vs the melting pot

Basstrap · 06-13-2002, 04:40 PM

I've so often heard this expression, referring to america as the melting pot and Canada as the mosaic.

Is there any truth to this?
Explain

JessicaAnn · 06-13-2002, 04:50 PM

I don't know if I have ever subscribed to the idea of America being a melting pot. Yes, there are some things withinAmerican culture that have perhaps come from one culture and have become something shared by all Americans (regardless of culture).

However, I think that within America the culture of the varios ethnic groups tends to stay unique to those that are part of that ethnic group.

Hope that made sense ... It has been a long day at work and I am not thinking clearly.

daafish · 06-13-2002, 05:03 PM

Having lived in so many places from the east coast to the west coast that America definately has a variety of "flavors" Although, the mid-west I experienced doesn't the diversity of that coasts. California is enriched with so many different cultures that the last time I flew into Denver I was amazed to see so many white people!

Anyway, when they say melting pot, I believe relates to the fact that various cultures are assimilated into....for lack of a better word, "American culture". It seems now...for those of us in California that the mix is now a not an unusual thing.

kobayashi · 06-13-2002, 08:05 PM

i've often thought, as i'm apt to do, that this theory is more true in the sense of what is reflected in the national media of each nation. by media i mean not just television and radio because as you will know, basstrap, the popular media of the two nations is largely the same.

rather, i refer to festivals, parades, concert experiences and the like. something like caribana, for instance, is unrivaled in north america. in my experience canada enjoys a much more diversified array of these than our neighbours to the north.

whereas i've many friends from both american or canadian citizenry who have either adopted a north american lifestyle or successfully incorporated the heritage into thier 'new' being. such distinctions are not made along racial, ethnic or cultural lines in large part, as per my experience.

in other words the canadian pride which is derived from our 'mosaiic' is largely a falsehood in my opinion. we are more culturally diverse in our experiences, but nowhere near to the degree we like to advertise.

canadians should pride themselves on being more accepting of many rather than this mosaic design of society.

bonoman · 06-13-2002, 09:34 PM

Well if we all think about it as americans and canadians we are all immigrants, unless we are native. Our Parents parents are Euopeon or Asain or African. I live in Canada and as a Canadian if any American or person of another nationality asked me 'what am i' i would say Irish, both my parents are from there and i have all my family there. Canada has very loose immigration laws and lets many different cultures into our country this making our culture very difersitied.

For example where i am from we have a festival every year called heritage day. There about 90-100 different counties that particate in this. It is huge. About a million people come to it over a four day period. It has singing, dancing, food and national passtimes shown off at this event.

I dont really know how to explain it if your not Canadian but we are much more accepting of others cultures and heritage. It is something that comes natural as there are so many different immgrants around us. I think we are just more tolerable of others beliefs where as americans want everyone to be AMERICAN. Or maybe its just that Canadians dont have a lifestyle. We all have our own. This is one of the reasons i love canada so much. Everywhere you look or everyone you talk to have culture for you to be exposed to.

I also think this is why Canadians dont have such a flag waving spirt as some other nations because we are all allowed to be who we were when we first came to this country!

lady lemonade · 06-13-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonoman
I dont really know how to explain it if your not Canadian but we are much more accepting of others cultures and heritage. It is something that comes natural as there are so many different immgrants around us. I think we are just more tolerable of others beliefs where as americans want everyone to be AMERICAN. Or maybe its just that Canadians dont have a lifestyle. We all have our own. This is one of the reasons i love canada so much. Everywhere you look or everyone you talk to have culture for you to be exposed to.

I also think this is why Canadians dont have such a flag waving spirt as some other nations because we are all allowed to be who we were when we first came to this country!

I agree with what you said here. I think when people refer to America as a melting pot, it's partly due to the strong American identity. When immigrants move to the States, they become first and foremost American citizens and are taught to embrace the American ideals. Now I don't want this to sounds as if I have a stereotypical view of America, it is just that there is a stronger feeling of unity, identity, and patriotism there while allowing people to preserve their own culture.

On the other hand, the concept of Canadian identity is not as significant here in Canada. It's really hard to describe the Canadian identity. It's seems that most of the outside world has got a really stereotyped view of Canada as polite, mild-mannered caucasians who wear flannel and like to go ice-fishing. Because we don't have such a "flag waving" spirit as do Americans, many immigrants remain rooted in their culture while participating in creating a mosaic-like Canadian identity. That may be why people refer to America as a melting-pot and Canada as mosaic-like. In any case, I do think that these are only labels that do not begin to describe the complexity of the relationship between immigrants and their country of adoption...

Zooropa · 06-14-2002, 01:19 AM

It is becoming more and more common to refer to the United States as a "Salad Bowl" rather than a "melting Pot". Different ethnic groups often retain their culture and heritage, while at the same time embrace the American Ideal. So when looking a t a salad bowl, one can se all the different ingredients, but the sum of all the parts is called the "salad bowl".

foray · 06-14-2002, 01:26 AM

Face it, we are all Americans to some degree.

yarof

Lemonite · 06-14-2002, 06:26 AM

Ah yes.. the good ol' Why Can't everyone just speak American Standard resurfaces..

L.Unplugged

JessicaAnn · 06-14-2002, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zooropa
It is becoming more and more common to refer to the United States as a "Salad Bowl" rather than a "melting Pot". Different ethnic groups often retain their culture and heritage, while at the same time embrace the American Ideal. So when looking a t a salad bowl, one can se all the different ingredients, but the sum of all the parts is called the "salad bowl".

That's exactly what I was trying to say ... but you said it much more eloquently. I need to learn to not post when I am so tired.

**Sicy** · 06-14-2002, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lemonite
Ah yes.. the good ol' Why Can't everyone just speak American Standard resurfaces..

L.Unplugged

you forgot: "hahahaha"

sulawesigirl4 · 06-14-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lady lemonade
Because we don't have such a "flag waving" spirit as do Americans...

Ummm, ever travelled overseas?

Cuz Canadian flags plastered all over ones luggage/backpack/etc. are apparently de rigeur for Canucks abroad.

On the other hand, I have yet to see an American sporting a flag on their baggage.

*teasing*

kobayashi · 06-14-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4

Ummm, ever travelled overseas? Cuz Canadian flags plastered all over ones luggage/backpack/etc. are apparently de rigeur for Canucks abroad. On the other hand, I have yet to see an American sporting a flag on their baggage.

*teasing*

lack of american flags in travelling circles is generally attributed to a negative view of american's around the world is it not? consequently many people adopt canadian flags since we're so effin' nice.
even domestically it has become quite the thing to sport the canadian flag, but i think that has as much to do with molson canadian, hockey canada and roots as as it does with our national pride.

sulawesigirl4 · 06-14-2002, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kobayashi

lack of american flags in travelling circles is generally attributed to a negative view of american's around the world is it not? consequently many people adopt canadian flags since we're so effin' nice.
even domestically it has become quite the thing to sport the canadian flag, but i think that has as much to do with molson canadian, hockey canada and roots as as it does with our national pride.

oh I dunno. I can only speak for myself. I wouldn't wear a flag American or otherwise cuz it seems kinda dorky.

(not to imply anything about you flag-waving canadians or anything...) Or because I'm not really that patriotic.

I think it goes back to the old theory of the canadian inferiority complex. Gotta plaster that flag everywhere so as not to be mistaken as Americans. Canada rah rah. Didn't we discuss this a while back, kobesan?

(p.s. in case anyone mistakes this for canada bashing and desires to jump on my case, let me circumvent that and let you know that I'm actually very pro-canada, canadian-friendly, canadian-approved and a number of other nice things.

)

kobayashi · 06-14-2002, 12:24 PM

sula, please stop being anti-canadian, canadian-mean and canadian-rejected among other things. get that maple leaf off your backpack as well...

oh the inferiority complex, we don't have to go down that road again do we?

U2Bama · 06-14-2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sicy

you forgot: "hahahaha"

He also forgot to mention fecal matter.

~U2Alabama

U2002revolution! · 06-22-2002, 07:07 PM

wow, you mean Canada in an actual country?

(just kidding you lil' eskimos you!

)

note: i'm just bitter, i could use some of your weather right about now!

kobayashi · 06-22-2002, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2002revolution!
i'm just bitter, i could use some of your weather right about now!

are you referring to our stereotypical igloo weather or our actual weather(or at least the conditions that windsor-quebec city corridor are under right now) of temperatures between 80 and 100 F, smog warnings in toronto and affecting kingston, ottawa and montreal?

theSoulfulMofo · 06-22-2002, 10:24 PM

TRIVIA: The words "melting pot" came from an African American writer named Jean Toomer in the early 20th century. You may find a collection of his works in his book Cane.

mocool12 · 06-24-2002, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonoman
I dont really know how to explain it if your not Canadian but we are much more accepting of others cultures and heritage. It is something that comes natural as there are so many different immgrants around us. I think we are just more tolerable of others beliefs where as americans want everyone to be AMERICAN. Or maybe its just that Canadians dont have a lifestyle. We all have our own. This is one of the reasons i love canada so much. Everywhere you look or everyone you talk to have culture for you to be exposed to.

I also think this is why Canadians dont have such a flag waving spirt as some other nations because we are all allowed to be who we were when we first came to this country!

This reminds me of a situation I get into every so often with a friend of mine. I was born and raised in the U.S., and I also have Irish on both both sides. I'm really proud of that heritage, but my friend seems to get pissed whenever I refer to myself as 'Irish'. "You're american!" she yells. I know that, and I'm proud of it... but is it that bad to be interested in where you're family came from? She makes me feel like a fraud at times. Ok so I don't know what my point was, but yeah, it certainly seems like we're a bit more sensitive here when it comes to displaying certain backgrounds. At least in my experiences. sorry if I don't make much sense at this hour.

06-13-2002, 04:40 PM	#1
Basstrap ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 10,726 Local Time: 03:59 PM	The mosaic vs the melting pot I've so often heard this expression, referring to america as the melting pot and Canada as the mosaic. Is there any truth to this? Explain __________________

06-13-2002, 04:50 PM	#2
JessicaAnn ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI (USA) Posts: 11,743 Local Time: 01:29 PM	I don't know if I have ever subscribed to the idea of America being a melting pot. Yes, there are some things withinAmerican culture that have perhaps come from one culture and have become something shared by all Americans (regardless of culture). However, I think that within America the culture of the varios ethnic groups tends to stay unique to those that are part of that ethnic group. Hope that made sense ... It has been a long day at work and I am not thinking clearly. __________________

06-13-2002, 08:05 PM	#4
kobayashi Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: the ether Posts: 5,142 Local Time: 02:29 PM	i've often thought, as i'm apt to do, that this theory is more true in the sense of what is reflected in the national media of each nation. by media i mean not just television and radio because as you will know, basstrap, the popular media of the two nations is largely the same. rather, i refer to festivals, parades, concert experiences and the like. something like caribana, for instance, is unrivaled in north america. in my experience canada enjoys a much more diversified array of these than our neighbours to the north. whereas i've many friends from both american or canadian citizenry who have either adopted a north american lifestyle or successfully incorporated the heritage into thier 'new' being. such distinctions are not made along racial, ethnic or cultural lines in large part, as per my experience. in other words the canadian pride which is derived from our 'mosaiic' is largely a falsehood in my opinion. we are more culturally diverse in our experiences, but nowhere near to the degree we like to advertise. canadians should pride themselves on being more accepting of many rather than this mosaic design of society. __________________ im the candyman. and the candyman is back.

06-14-2002, 12:24 PM	#15
kobayashi Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: the ether Posts: 5,142 Local Time: 02:29 PM	sula, please stop being anti-canadian, canadian-mean and canadian-rejected among other things. get that maple leaf off your backpack as well... oh the inferiority complex, we don't have to go down that road again do we? __________________ im the candyman. and the candyman is back.

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06-13-2002, 05:03 PM	#3
daafish Refugee Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Jose Posts: 2,176 Local Time: 11:29 AM	Having lived in so many places from the east coast to the west coast that America definately has a variety of "flavors" Although, the mid-west I experienced doesn't the diversity of that coasts. California is enriched with so many different cultures that the last time I flew into Denver I was amazed to see so many white people! Anyway, when they say melting pot, I believe relates to the fact that various cultures are assimilated into....for lack of a better word, "American culture". It seems now...for those of us in California that the mix is now a not an unusual thing.

06-13-2002, 09:34 PM	#5
bonoman Refugee Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland Posts: 1,398 Local Time: 11:29 AM	Well if we all think about it as americans and canadians we are all immigrants, unless we are native. Our Parents parents are Euopeon or Asain or African. I live in Canada and as a Canadian if any American or person of another nationality asked me 'what am i' i would say Irish, both my parents are from there and i have all my family there. Canada has very loose immigration laws and lets many different cultures into our country this making our culture very difersitied. For example where i am from we have a festival every year called heritage day. There about 90-100 different counties that particate in this. It is huge. About a million people come to it over a four day period. It has singing, dancing, food and national passtimes shown off at this event. I dont really know how to explain it if your not Canadian but we are much more accepting of others cultures and heritage. It is something that comes natural as there are so many different immgrants around us. I think we are just more tolerable of others beliefs where as americans want everyone to be AMERICAN. Or maybe its just that Canadians dont have a lifestyle. We all have our own. This is one of the reasons i love canada so much. Everywhere you look or everyone you talk to have culture for you to be exposed to. I also think this is why Canadians dont have such a flag waving spirt as some other nations because we are all allowed to be who we were when we first came to this country!

06-14-2002, 01:19 AM	#7
Zooropa Acrobat Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Long Island, New York, USA Posts: 421 Local Time: 02:29 PM	It is becoming more and more common to refer to the United States as a "Salad Bowl" rather than a "melting Pot". Different ethnic groups often retain their culture and heritage, while at the same time embrace the American Ideal. So when looking a t a salad bowl, one can se all the different ingredients, but the sum of all the parts is called the "salad bowl".

06-14-2002, 01:26 AM	#8
foray Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: full of sound and fury Posts: 3,386 Local Time: 07:29 AM	Face it, we are all Americans to some degree. yarof

06-14-2002, 06:26 AM	#9
Lemonite I'm a chauvinist leprechaun Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Notre Dame, IN, 46556 Posts: 1,072 Local Time: 06:29 PM	Ah yes.. the good ol' Why Can't everyone just speak American Standard resurfaces.. L.Unplugged

06-22-2002, 07:07 PM	#17
U2002revolution! War Child Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ ....USA Posts: 528 Local Time: 10:29 AM	wow, you mean Canada in an actual country? (just kidding you lil' eskimos you! ) note: i'm just bitter, i could use some of your weather right about now!

06-22-2002, 10:24 PM	#19
theSoulfulMofo Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 4,490 Local Time: 11:29 AM	TRIVIA: The words "melting pot" came from an African American writer named Jean Toomer in the early 20th century. You may find a collection of his works in his book Cane.