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Well, he didn't. My point though is that blaming a politician for your actions and declaring 100% lack of inability to be a free thinker (like you're subject to Obamas view) is stupid.

Well, the democrats don't back gay marriage yet so therefore I think it's okay to back an anti gay campaign! Problem solved!
 
Yeah, it is pretty stupid. But then again, blaming a religion for your actions and declaring a 100% lack of inability to be a free thinker is pretty stupid as well in my books. :wink:
 
i hesitate putting this in the gay thread, since HIV affects everyone, etc.

but it's fascinating, and touches on how diseases/conditions related to sex are somehow "worse" and more shameful than diseases/conditions related to other lifestyle factors (diet, exercise, cigarettes).

(and when i say "lifestyle" i mean it to refer to sex itself, usually unprotected, either hetero or homo, as hetero sex has transmitted much, much, much more HIV globally than homosex)




As a doctor, I’d rather have HIV than diabetes

One of the most feared diseases in the world is now, for British doctors, a manageable chronic condition. It’s a triumph we’re oddly scared to talk about
163 CommentsMax Pemberton 19 April 2014


‘There is now a deadly virus, which anyone can catch from sex with an infected person. If we’re not careful, the people who’ve died so far, will be just the tip of the iceberg… If you ignore Aids, it could be the death of you.’ It has been hailed as one of the most memorable health campaigns ever created. The message couldn’t have been clearer and people were petrified. For anyone over the age of 30, the ‘Iceberg’ and ‘Tombstone’ adverts — as they came to be known — with John Hurt’s menacing voice-over, still bring back a sense of crushing dread. The UK actually led the way with its HIV public health campaigns; it was considered so successful in raising awareness that other countries adopted similar adverts relying on shock and fear. The thing I am most struck by now, however, is how over-the-top they seem.

It’s now 30 years since HIV was discovered. During my training as a doctor in central London in the late 1990s, people were still dying of Aids. But since then, incredible pharmacological advances have been made in how the virus is treated and managed. Combination medications — termed ‘highly active antiretroviral therapy’ or Haart — have resulted in being able to maintain the infected person’s immune system and therefore prevent the opportunistic infections that resulted in the development of Aids and led to death. Despite working in the centre of London with high-risk groups such as sex workers and drug addicts, I haven’t seen someone die of HIV for years. It’s now incredibly rare to die as a result of HIV/Aids in this country. The most recent statistics show that in 2012, less than 1 per cent of people with HIV died. This is about the same for the non-infected population. It’s hard, now, to argue that HIV is a death sentence.

Those who are dangerously unwell with the disease are often immigrants who have been infected for years, and present to hospital late with the kind of infections that we no longer see in those on medication. One study suggested that around 75 per cent of HIV-related inpatient admissions are immigrants, with about 60 per cent from Africa. For the vast majority of people with HIV in this country, though, the disease is managed entirely in outpatient clinics. HIV/Aids wards and specialist units have closed simply because there is no longer the volume of patients to fill them. This is a hugely encouraging fact, which would have seemed impossible to those who stood, in the 1980s and 1990s, as friends, family and loved ones faded away while doctors stood by utterly helpless. What is truly startling is the speed with which medicine responded to HIV.



A recent large epidemiological study showed that, for those diagnosed with HIV now, life expectancy is similar to someone who does not have the virus. The medical profession now considers HIV a chronic disease; it’s regarded in public health terms in the same category as, for example, type 2 diabetes. As a doctor I can tell you that, medically speaking, I’d rather have HIV than diabetes. While this might sound shocking or surprising, the facts speak for themselves: the prognosis for those with type 2 diabetes is much worse than for those with HIV. The risk of stroke in newly treated type 2 diabetes is more than double that of the general population. People with diabetes are four times more likely to have cardiovascular disease than someone without diabetes. In 20 to 30 per cent of people with diabetes, there’s damage to the kidney filtering system leading to kidney failure and the need for dialysis. Damage to the delicate vessels in the eye is a leading cause of blindness and damage to nerves is a leading cause of foot wounds and ulcers, which frequently lead to foot and leg amputations. For those with HIV, providing they take their medication, there are very few problems.

Many people are complacent about diabetes in a way that would seem reckless with HIV. People consider type 2 diabetes an irritant — something that can be easily fixed with tablets. But this is wrong. Regardless of how well it is controlled, type 2 diabetes is a progressive disease, which results in the need to increase pharmacological therapies over time. A recent study conducted in Australia showed that, after six years, 44 per cent of patients no longer responded to oral medication and required insulin injections. Oral medications eventually fail in most people, meaning that injections are almost inevitable at some point.

Now compare this with HIV. Fixed-dose medications (multiple antiretroviral drugs in a single tablet) have meant that most of those infected simply take a tablet a day. While no one wants to have to take medication for the rest of their lives, it’s a lot easier than injecting insulin. And of course there are side effects, but that’s true for diabetes medication and, with a bit of trial and error, most people find a medication that suits them. To put it starkly, the latest statistics show that because of Haart, HIV now no longer reduces your life expectancy, while having type 2 diabetes typically reduces it by ten years. But this isn’t an easy thing to say publicly.

The news about our incredible progress against HIV is only whispered about because there are concerns that if it is emphasised, then people will no longer take care to avoid infection. The HIV charities, full of older gay men who were mobilised by watching their friends and partners die of the disease in the 1980s and 1990s, are left woefully out of touch with the new realities of the disease. For them, HIV will always be the ogre lurking in the shadows, and so any attempt to put it within a wider context of chronic diseases is met with howls about insensitivity or recklessness. They still rely on mobilising outdated fears about the disease to promote safe sex in a way that, for example, diabetes charities never do about eating a healthy diet. By following this old strategy, they inadvertently help to perpetuate the stigma that those with the infection face.

Throughout its brief history, HIV has been both medicalised as a disease and moralised as a stigma. It is the social impact of the condition that now forms the focus after a diagnosis, often far more than the physical aspects. It is the fear of being ostracised that is the biggest problem for those who are newly diagnosed, not the virus itself. Rates of depression in those with HIV are nearly ten times higher than among the general public, in no small part because of the stigma that remains attached to the condition. And if HIV still has status as a scary disease, that’s down to society’s attitude — rather than the virus itself.
 
“We didn’t bring this lawsuit to make others conform to our beliefs,
but to vindicate the right of all faiths to freely exercise their religious
practices,” said Donald C. Clark Jr., general counsel of the United Church
of Christ."


In America, we have a Constitution that's allows people to practice their religion. People's religious beliefs should not be restricted by laws or judges.


The One Religious Liberty Case Anti-Gay Conservatives Want To Ignore | Blog | Media Matters for America
 
In America, we have a Constitution that's allows people to practice their religion. People's religious beliefs should not be restricted by laws or judges.


The One Religious Liberty Case Anti-Gay Conservatives Want To Ignore | Blog | Media Matters for America
THat's great, so why isn't that law lived by? Why is the one religious belief of Christians so much more important that that of everyone else?

I'd say people should believe whatever they want to believe, as long as it doesn't get in the way of other people's beliefs. Keep it for yourself and don't force it onto others.

Plus isn't type II diabetes god's way of tellin them they should have laid off the twinkies when they were younger?
:lol: Apparently so! But yeah, same with lung cancer. It's almost like it's 'cool' to have such a stupid disease, and it's the pitfall of our medical science developments. Since we can cure so much now, the idiots don't die as easily and they reproduce much faster, thus more idiots are born. It's an ongoing cycle that will eventually kill off human life as we know it.
 
I understand what you are saying, GG, but resentment against undesirable people for reproducing is rather a dangerous road to go down, don't you think?
 
It's no road to go down, it's simply an observation of society as it is. There's a reason most animal species have a completely different system where the weak die and the strong species live on. Yet us humans choose to defy this so we have to live with the consequences.


But maybe this is a topic for a different thread... then again one could argue that gays do the human race and mother earth a favour as they do not reproduce. :wink:
 
I wonder to what extent a propensity to overeat junk food is genetic.

(I truly have no idea.)
 
Fat and sugar were so scarce throughout most of human history, that we are wired to consume it as much as possible when we find it.

Now it's in abundance, and the challenge is to turn it down. It's hard -- we get addicted to these things, and they are everywhere and marketed to us at all times.
 
Well, the craving for sweets is deeply hardwired. Sweet foods are virtually never poisonous in nature and carry a lot of easily available calories, so humans are evolved to seeks them out as much as possible, just like all the other non-carnivorous animals. The only differences are that for bears and pigs, eventually the supply of berries and fallen apples run out as the season for them ends, and we have an artificially enlarged supply of unnaturally sweet, unnaturally fat foods that never go out of season. Edit, whoops, you beat me to it, Irvine!

Some people do have a greater genetic predisposition to addictive behaviors in general, though of course early patterning modeling affect that a lot too. I don't have the data at hand, but I recall a study that indicated people whose mothers had medication for pain during labor when they were born were five times more likely to have an addiction as an adult than their non-medicated birth siblings.
 
Wow - it seems you guys have just about cleared out any dissenting voices in FYM. Congratulations...
 
THat's great, so why isn't that law lived by? Why is the one religious belief of Christians so much more important that that of everyone else?

:lol: Apparently so! But yeah, same with lung cancer. It's almost like it's 'cool' to have such a stupid disease, and it's the pitfall of our medical science developments. Since we can cure so much now, the idiots don't die as easily and they reproduce much faster, thus more idiots are born. It's an ongoing cycle that will eventually kill off human life as we know it.
Why, GG don't you know that 'Merica IS a Christian Nation?!

:wink:

Actually many of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians.

deism |ˈdēizəm| noun belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Compare with theism .

as for your other comment

:eyebrow:
GG, how do you know for sure you are not going do something(s) in the future that might have you end up wwith a "stupid disease" .

I understand what you are saying, GG, but resentment against undesirable people for reproducing is rather a dangerous road to go down, don't you think?
yeah, really.

It's no road to go down, it's simply an observation of society as it is. There's a reason most animal species have a completely different system where the weak die and the strong species live on. Yet us humans choose to defy this so we have to live with the consequences.

But maybe this is a topic for a different thread... then again one could argue that gays do the human race and mother earth a favour as they do not reproduce. :wink:
Another thread? ...no, not when you say something rather provoking like that.

We are the same AND different than animals. SO....Kill the Weak? Or let's say- leave them to their own devices no extra kind of medical/ benifits help? WHich would usually ( unless the family/person was quite well off) means they'd die faster.

So should Stephen Hawkins have been left to his own devises? Mohamid Ali once he got Parikson's? Helen Keller....what about her?

The fact IS that human beings have multiple aspects to them besides their physicality. Their various Intellegencies, Creativity, Ethics, for those inclined Spirituality. Deficiency in one ...even 2 doesn't mean other important areas are major pontentials for vitality, and valuable to the person, the people that care about them, and may be of importance to that person's local area/state/province/prefecture etc , a country , the world, even, in some cases.
 
You're putting words in my mouth that I have never said. I merely stated an observation, no opinion or sentiment.

Is it not true that most animal species leave behind the weak? That the weak get eaten by a different species? And is it also not true that humankind has found that ethically reprehensible and has thus been searching for means to defy that? That we developed medical care and a society that is going in against this?

I never stated whether it's wrong or right. I merely stated. Don't put words in my mouth, thanks.



and sure, I never know for sure if I'll ever catch some stupid disease. Because I can't look into the future. Nobody can. But I can do what I need to prevent things like that. By working out, eating healthily and not having sex without condoms. That leaves out quite a lot of stupid diseases already.
 
This is how I think God sees us. Aside from how we treat gays, we are all awful to each other. Sometimes I wonder why God hasn't thrown the towel on us and gone off to create another planet where its intelligent beings would actually be intelligent.

The cartoon is quite funny

OTOH hand are you suffering from rfeal depression OR havs some one really done you wrong reccently?

IF either are so....I'm sorry to hear that, and hope better times ahead for you. Either situation could certainly could edvoke such a response.

to nake such an overblown, over-genralization..... about how people treat each other?


sheeesh......... :|
 
Well if we're just going to ridicule the dissenting voice, it kind of proves his point, doesn't it?

It's true that FYM has become a bit of an echo chamber lately. :shrug:
 
I think it's more of a ghost town now.

Anyways, I don't think those arguments involving INDY were particularly fruitful or really worth it in the end were they.
 
I think it's more of a ghost town now.

That's probably a more accurate description.

Anyways, I don't think those arguments involving INDY were particularly fruitful or really worth it in the end were they.

It definitely would be nice to have more people of opposing viewpoints interested in discussing things in good faith.
 
Oh it absolutely is lacking in dissenting voices. But it sure as shit isn't because liberals conspired to force conservatives out. I find this place way more interesting when it isn't an echo chamber.

Blaming liberals for forcing conservatives out of this forum is lazy and deserves ridicule.
 
It's not just FYM, US politics in general has lost real all real discourse. It's just echo chambers and victim playing. Those that used to blame others for playing victim have become experts at it. Those that said 'isms were being thrown around so loosely that the terms have lost meaning have now actually become correct. The misuse of "religious freedom" has now just become a shroud which to hide behind. And you can't debate using scientific fact because science has now once again become acquainted with the likes of witchcraft and socialism.

It's all become rather boring.
 
You're putting words in my mouth that I have never said. I merely stated an observation, no opinion or sentiment.

Is it not true that most animal species leave behind the weak? That the weak get eaten by a different species? And is it also not true that humankind has found that ethically reprehensible and has thus been searching for means to defy that? That we developed medical care and a society that is going in against this?

I never stated whether it's wrong or right. I merely stated. Don't put words in my mouth, thanks.
Ok...apologies there. :)

And yes I've watched Nature TV (thank you Public Television) up to my wazoo when I was younger- so I know all about that!

But I will add that at least for me when you made that first observation IF you had then also said in the first post what you just stated in this post-- humans finding that unethical and finding ways ways to counteract that -- THEN I would have not had I think such a reaction because at least you stated both observations.

For me by just having that first and only-- i took it to mean you supported that line of thinking.

if you should feel that way... i have no intention right now about dicussing it.
It's enough right now(in the USA) to have to fight against some very cruel, greedy right-wing Republicans, Conservtiives and a few greedy Democrats as well here on. And some who want to practice "Social Darwinism" etc :crack:

and sure, I never know for sure if I'll ever catch some stupid disease. Because I can't look into the future. Nobody can. But I can do what I need to prevent things like that. By working out, eating healthily and not having sex without condoms. That leaves out quite a lot of stupid diseases already.

and good for you. I'm inclined that way myself. ANd for some other people things like that don't pan out as well, more issues to why they don't etc. I try to keep the judgemental factor on the lower side.
 
It's not just FYM, US politics in general has lost real all real discourse. It's just echo chambers and victim playing. Those that used to blame others for playing victim have become experts at it. Those that said 'isms were being thrown around so loosely that the terms have lost meaning have now actually become correct...It's all become rather boring.
:up:

Aye
 
Hanging out with gay men it's fun, I have had more chances to meet more beautiful straight girls by hanging out with gays than with heterosexual men.
 
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