The Gay Thread - Page 38 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-19-2015, 12:40 PM   #741
Blue Crack Addict
 
phanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness on the edge of town
Posts: 25,899
Local Time: 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Memphis and I are now, officially, married.

It was emotionally overwhelming. I am so grateful.


Sent from

__________________

phanan is online now  
Old 01-19-2015, 06:50 PM   #742
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,956
Local Time: 08:52 AM
This thread is so much gayer now, it's awesome


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________

DaveC is offline  
Old 01-19-2015, 11:05 PM   #743
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 07:52 AM
Having seen you argue here so passionately and eloquently (and patiently - I don't know if I'd be able to weather people telling me I didn't deserve equal treatment as gracefully as you have) for your own rights over the years, it's really awesome to see you able to enjoy them, Irvine.

Marriage is great - many happy years to you both!
Diemen is offline  
Old 01-20-2015, 06:01 AM   #744
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,461
Local Time: 09:52 AM
The Gay Thread

While FYM had nothing to do with my actual decision to get married (we'll be a couple 10 years this summer) having the space to work out and create cogent arguments for my own legal equality -- and how persuasive the arguments simply were, that's why we've won -- gave me a glimmer of hope that, yes, this might one day be possible. That gay relationships can have real structure, meaning, and purpose, and that, yes, you are worth recognizing and celebrating. Having posted in here since early 2004, the year W used SSM to tip the scales in Ohio, it's been thrilling to watch our breathtaking progress, both in the US and around the world. And in the end, for all the long posts I've written, the lasting argument is the simplest: love is love. Most people want and need to create a family, and to legally give themselves "backup" -- a first-responder, if you will -- and also to be the same for someone else. We all want somebody to love. And we go from there.

It's all so simple. What were we ever worried about?


Sent from
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-20-2015, 08:45 AM   #745
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
It's all so simple. What were we ever worried about?
Diemen is offline  
Old 01-20-2015, 01:32 PM   #746
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,778
Local Time: 03:52 PM
You have such a great way of explaining it, way better than I ever could.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline  
Old 01-20-2015, 10:52 PM   #747
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
trojanchick99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Los Feliz, CA (between Hollywood and Downtown LA)
Posts: 8,352
Local Time: 06:52 AM
Congrats!

I will never understand how people can be opposed to two people who love each other wanting to affirm that love and create a stable family.


Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference
trojanchick99 is offline  
Old 01-20-2015, 11:02 PM   #748
45:33
 
cobl04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: East Point to Shaolin
Posts: 58,268
Local Time: 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

It's all so simple. What were we ever worried about?


cobl04 is online now  
Old 02-20-2015, 01:31 PM   #749
Self-righteous bullshitter
 
BoMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,900
Local Time: 10:52 AM
What is wrong with some people? How is this not illegal?

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...irth/23640315/
__________________

BoMac is offline  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:08 PM   #750
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 08:52 AM
That goes against everything in the oath this doctor should have taken.

Shitty doctor, shitty human being...


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
BVS is offline  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:16 PM   #751
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Shitty doctor, shitty human being...
Stay classy.

It should go without saying that one specific belief you find odious doesn't automatically make a person a shitty human being.
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:27 PM   #752
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Stay classy.



It should go without saying that one specific belief you find odious doesn't automatically make a person a shitty human being.

I'm not commenting on one's belief. I'm commenting on their denial of care to an innocent human being and their complete ignoring of their profession's oath.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
BVS is offline  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:45 PM   #753
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 83,644
Local Time: 05:52 AM
I got in a huge stupid Facebook debate with someone about this yesterday.

Apparently since the child want being denied care, but treatment (she wasn't sick, just looking for a pediatrician), it's not illegal.

As others I spoke with said, it's honestly better to NOT see this doctor anyways, because you need to be able to have a good relationship with your pediatrician, but it's also good that they told their story so others can avoid the doctor as well.

The doctor never should have handled it so shittily in the first place. Not saying anything, not showing up, etc. It's pathetic. If you're going to stand for what you believe in, go all the way with it instead of being a coward.
__________________
bono_212 is offline  
Old 02-20-2015, 11:19 PM   #754
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,738
Local Time: 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Stay classy.

It should go without saying that one specific belief you find odious doesn't automatically make a person a shitty human being.
I respect your posts a great deal, and almost always agree with them. You are a real voice of reason around here. However, I'm going to have to side with BVS on this one. I think that anyone who holds attitudes like this is a shitty human being, and showing tolerance for individuals like this is to the detriment of society. Especially in her position as a healer. She is not being asked to interact socially with this family - she is only being asked to treat their child in a professional manner. Saying she couldn't bond with the family, and using praying is a giant, disappointing, disgusting cop-out from someone who ought to know better.
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 02:43 AM   #755
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 07:52 AM
There's a difference between saying that what the doctor did was shitty, and then calling that doctor a shitty human being, though.

I'm certainly not denying that what she did was shitty, because it was incredibly so. But I don't think that's enough to render a verdict on her soul, as it were. Especially since this is the only thing we know about this person.

I think my stance on gay rights is pretty well known in FYM, but I think the tendency to simply tear down and insult those who hold opposing viewpoints is unhelpful and tiresome.

I have some close family members who share pretty similar beliefs as this pediatrician. I find those beliefs shitty and am disappointed they hold them, but they're more than just those beliefs and, on balance, are not shitty human beings, just misguided and indoctrinated.
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 02:54 AM   #756
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,738
Local Time: 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
There's a difference between saying that what the doctor did was shitty, and then calling that doctor a shitty human being, though.

I'm certainly not denying that what she did was shitty, because it was incredibly so. But I don't think that's enough to render a verdict on her soul, as it were. Especially since this is the only thing we know about this person.

I think my stance on gay rights is pretty well known in FYM, but I think the tendency to simply tear down and insult those who hold opposing viewpoints is unhelpful and tiresome.

I have some close family members who share pretty similar beliefs as this pediatrician. I find those beliefs shitty and am disappointed they hold them, but they're more than just those beliefs and, on balance, are not shitty human beings, just misguided and indoctrinated.
Thanks for your response. I understand where you're coming from, but I do not agree. I used to try to look at situations like this by giving the person the benefit of the doubt, and thinking that they are probably a decent person, but misguided. I've found though that the older I get, the less tolerance I have for people whose views are clearly wrong, and I don't feel like I need to do the mental gymnastics of categorizing people into good but misguided. If you discriminate against people who are homosexual, you're a bad person, period. Society has come far enough that this is not even up for debate.

FWIW, I have elderly relatives who are racist, grew up in a time when being racist was okay. I used to make excuses for them. Now, I just avoid them. They should know better.

Eta - and that is why I rarely post in here, these days, despite being quite active a few years ago. I realize that my attitude is not really conducive to discussion/debate.
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 07:28 AM   #757
More 5G Than Man
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 68,491
Local Time: 05:52 AM
I'm siding with Diemen on this one. It's the ol' nature vs. nurture argument, I suppose; beyond this issue being simply one facet to the person, there's no shithead gene that makes one an inherently bad person (that I know of) and some people can change their views over time. Most don't, but some do. I've said some terribly misguided things about homosexuals on this board, things that I'm quite ashamed of today; I would like to think that I've grown beyond that and that others can as well, given the right set of circumstances.

I think to deem someone a "bad person" is to deny the plasticity of the human brain. And yeah, it's not terribly helpful to discourse here in FYM either, but I suppose that's not much of an issue as dissenting opinions have become so infrequent here.
LemonMelon is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 09:16 AM   #758
Galeonbroad
 
Galeongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Schoo Fishtank
Posts: 70,778
Local Time: 03:52 PM
It's an absolute shitty move, but I do agree it doesn't make this doctor a shitty human being per se.

We could force people like this by law to treat the kid, but is that what we really want? I don't think this is the right path to take. It's incredibly sad that there are people who think like this, but if we're being real, we know there are. But we also know that punishing them isn't going to change their beliefs AND that there are now luckily plenty of people who start seeing gay people as normal human beings. So instead of punishing the ones refusing, perhaps we should just ignore them as their generation is going to die out eventually anyway, and focus on finding a good doctor for this baby that is in agreement with the parents' situation. That way the parents and doctor can develop a proper professional relationship, since that would not have been possible with this current doctor. I'm not justifying the behaviour at all, or saying we should ignore homophobic behaviour. Not at all. But I think that forcing people to do things against their beliefs makes us just as bad as refusing to do things for people because of your beliefs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
Galeongirl is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #759
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 08:52 AM
Once again, my comment as over reaching as it may have been was not based solely on their "belief", it was also based on how they handled the situation, their poor professional ethics, and the fact that they chose to deny the innocent party the care.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
BVS is offline  
Old 02-21-2015, 01:43 PM   #760
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,443
Local Time: 09:52 AM
I think that probably reflects upon who that person is as a person. And thus, probably a shitty human being but nothing for certain.
__________________

LuckyNumber7 is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×