The Gay Thread

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nbelcik said:
There's a difference between a tshirt company or a baker not wanting to print a message that is offensive to them and not offering services because of their innate characteristics. If a baker refused to put a pro-gay slogan on a wedding cake then that would be okay.

What is not okay is not baking a simple, neutral wedding cake for a gay couple because they're gay. That would be discriminating against a person based on innate characteristics.

Another example, a grocery store or barbershop has no right to refuse service to a neo-Nazi if they're simply shopping at the store. But, a tshirt company can refuse to print neo-Nazi slogans on a tshirt.


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I completely agree that a barbershop or grocery store shouldn't be able to refuse their services, BUT I do believe the baker has the right to refuse a gay wedding if that is against their beliefs. As much as I disagree with their stance, in THEIR mind they are condoning something they don't believe in. Just like that baker has the right to refuse a KKK wedding, even if the cake they were asked to do has no message on it.

There is no such thing as a neo-nazi, gay, black, white, or Republican haircut(despite all stereotypes) so a barber's services are not condoning anything, nor is the selling of groceries. BUT t-shirts, cakes, catering, djing, sign making, etc. these businesses come with some condoning of a message, and I believe they have the right to refuse such condoning, as wrong as they might be.
 
martha said:
How does that extremely selective legislation get passed and vetted? Who gets to decide the exceptions and fine definitions within such a law?


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In most states there already is legislation and the courts have already done a good job of interpreting the laws and defining exactly what they mean.


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Breaking Gay News: there is now a gay couple on the Walking Dead.


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martha said:
A dead couple?

(I've never seen the show. Are there alive and dead couples on the show?)
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The dead are fodder, and lifeless beings. They're neither gay nor straight.

They've already encountered the undead, prisoners, lunatics, lesbians, and cannibals. All who have been on the opposite side, trying to kill them. It will be interesting to see how they wage war with the homosexual agenda.
 
BVS said:
I completely agree that a barbershop or grocery store shouldn't be able to refuse their services, BUT I do believe the baker has the right to refuse a gay wedding if that is against their beliefs. As much as I disagree with their stance, in THEIR mind they are condoning something they don't believe in. Just like that baker has the right to refuse a KKK wedding, even if the cake they were asked to do has no message on it.

There is no such thing as a neo-nazi, gay, black, white, or Republican haircut(despite all stereotypes) so a barber's services are not condoning anything, nor is the selling of groceries. BUT t-shirts, cakes, catering, djing, sign making, etc. these businesses come with some condoning of a message, and I believe they have the right to refuse such condoning, as wrong as they might be.
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That was mostly my point as well.

I think the bad publicity is a much stronger weapon than forcing by law in this case.

If I had a child and the pediatrician had issues treating them because of my orientation, I wouldn't even want her to care for my child anymore. I'll go find a different person who cares for kids and humans the same way. Luckily I live in a country where this isn't an issue.
 
martha said:
How does that extremely selective legislation get passed and vetted? Who gets to decide the exceptions and fine definitions within such a law?


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It doesn't. We stay in this middle ground of bullshit .

If you pass legislation based on not allowing refusal of service based on things that you are born with, but allowing people to refuse service based on ideology, it opens up the rights for businesses to refuse service due to religion.

Frankly, I think you let it go, and allow the free market to take care of it. Chick-fil-a may have increased business in the south, as was pointed out, but they were completely shut out of expansion plans in huge markets like New York and Boston due to their views.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
It's getting uncomfortably libertarian in here guys.

Wouldn't want anyone to waste their vote on Gary Johnson...
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I'm not getting that vibe at all.
It's the free market essentially voting for companies and what the companies stand for with their dollar, it's just simple free market capitalism.
Nothing really Libertarian about it.

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I've no idea what libertarian even is so I don't know... but I do agree with Headache. Just let the shallow minded companies be known in public, and see what happens to their sales.
 
Galeongirl said:
I've no idea what libertarian even is so I don't know... but I do agree with Headache. Just let the shallow minded companies be known in public, and see what happens to their sales.
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Libertarianism is basically the belief that the government needs to be reduced to funding the military, and that's it. Legalize everything and not allow the government to interfere with the private sector.


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Yeah, that sounds like a glorious idea lol. If we want our society and species to be wiped out in no time. :lol:

People are idiots. Whether we like it or not, they NEED someone to tell them what's right and wrong. So I'm far, far from Libertarianism then.
 
Galeongirl said:
Yeah, that sounds like a glorious idea lol. If we want our society and species to be wiped out in no time. :lol:

People are idiots. Whether we like it or not, they NEED someone to tell them what's right and wrong. So I'm far, far from Libertarianism then.
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I'm strongly Libertarian, especially economically. But I already know that my views are in the very low minority here. Especially considering that it seems like a great portion of this forum advocates socialism.


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Good for you. I don't really care much about politics actually, so I have no idea what group I'd affiliate with. Other than human being. :)
 
bobsaget77 said:
I'm strongly Libertarian, especially economically. But I already know that my views are in the very low minority here. Especially considering that it seems like a great portion of this forum advocates socialism.


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Your definitions of libertarianism and socialism are pretty elementary.


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BVS said:
Your definitions of libertarianism and socialism are pretty elementary.


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That's cause I was defining them in the simplest terms as possible so she could have a basic idea of what libertarianism is. My understanding of them is not elementary. If she would like a more specific and detailed understanding, I'd be more than glad to discuss such.


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bobsaget77 said:
That's cause I was defining them in the simplest terms as possible so she could have a basic idea of what libertarianism is. My understanding of them is not elementary. If she would like a more specific and detailed understanding, I'd be more than glad to discuss such.


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My point is that if you ever want to get taken seriously in here you might want to avoid your broad and vague strokes; like trying to label this forum as "socialism advocates".


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BVS said:
Your definitions of libertarianism and socialism are pretty elementary.


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BVS said:
My point is that if you ever want to get taken seriously in here you might want to avoid your broad and vague strokes; like trying to label this forum as "socialism advocates".


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If that was your point then you sure picked a strange way to say it...
 
I'm just getting a chuckle out of this because I got blasted for saying this could work years ago (on this forum).

Now it's essentially the driving factor to legalization.
 
I mean the context here and now wasn't just a small, privately owned business. And it was the same topic then.

It doesn't matter though, it was just a joke picking at the contradictions.
 
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