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Old 04-17-2014, 07:00 PM   #381
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I get that he's saying his views have evolved over time, but it just strikes me, the whole "well, it's fine for my daughter, but no one else."

You see that come up with abortion as well. "I'm against abortion! ..... but can you help me find a doctor to help my 15 year old daughter take care of this little problem?"
A frequent Republican response to these kinds of things.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:19 PM   #382
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i can only really speak for the gay male community (and really can't do that), but there are some who view this as a way for big Pharma to make a lot of money while encouraging unprotected sex, which could lead to the spread of other STDs and the emergence of resistant strands of HIV because some people don't take their other meds properly.

others believe that, in essence, this is no different than a woman remembering to take her birth control, and that total adherence to condom use over a lifetime is impossible to expect, and it's easier to remember to take a pill everyday than it is to always use a condom in the heat of the moment, and that this is the best way yet to reduce the transmission of HIV.

there's a lot to unpack here.

If I may ask, do you lean one way or another?
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:31 PM   #383
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If I may ask, do you lean one way or another?


It has to be a decision made between an individual and his doctor. And it should be covered by all health plans -- how terrifying if a business were to invoke it's apparent "religious freedom" and refuse to cover a drug like this, especially in HIV- individuals.

I suppose I view it like birth control. Were I a woman, I'd like to think Id take birth control and also use a condom, especially with new partners. Back when I was single, I was a Nazi about these things, but I can appreciate that people aren't perfect, so it's great to have two methods of protection. I don't think anyone actually likes condoms, and gay people have the same physical and emotional needs as anyone else. I also think that with marriage equality gay people now have structure, meaning, and purpose to dating, so that unprotected sex is an option once in a monogamous committed relationship. I think it's wonderful for serodiscordant couples (I know several), and I also think that taking a pill every day isn't that hard to do, and that doesn't mean that it's a license to be a slut. I also think it's a drug that people could go on and off depending on where they are in their lives. The most dangerous people out there are those who are + and unaware of their status. Those who know don't infect others.

Were I single today, it is something is talk to my doctor about and I'd have a stack of condoms readily available.

Sorry if we are in TMI territory.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:10 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I get that he's saying his views have evolved over time, but it just strikes me, the whole "well, it's fine for my daughter, but no one else."

You see that come up with abortion as well. "I'm against abortion! ..... but can you help me find a doctor to help my 15 year old daughter take care of this little problem?"
I kinda got the same vibe from that article..


The pills is a delicate issue indeed. I kinda find it strange that gay males are brandished as sluts right away, kinda the way straight women would be if they had lots of sex. Yet straight males never are...
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:20 AM   #385
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Can you imagine if there was a male birth control pill? If a man could take a pill every day and truthfully swear to a woman that his risk of impregnating her is tiny? I think many men, esp. single ones, might find that motivating. And I don't think conservatives would have a hard time framing that as a responsible action for a man to do.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:25 AM   #386
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That certainly would be interesting. Wonder if conservatives would also claim that this would lead to more straight men having sex. Or would that be suddenly healthy and good rather than disgusting?

Smells like hypocrisy to me. I don't think anyone will be inclined to having more (unprotected) sex because of a pill. And either way it's none of my business. But if there's a pill out there that makes it safer from all involved, decreasing risks of diseases that wreck lives and cost millions of treatment money, then why the hell are we not funding this???
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:50 AM   #387
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I think morality (or whatever) has no place in a public health debate. You go with where the science takes you.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:18 AM   #388
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I hope this Sterling situation sheds some light on the Eich situation.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:47 AM   #389
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What more is there to say, though?

I actually watched that Bill Maher segment where he suggests of a "gay mafia" as a joke... whoever that chick was who opened her mouth before Maher needs to get her head out of her ass.

She actually justified Eich's donation by saying "I think it's unjust. President Obama didn't even support gay marriage in 2008." Umm what?
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:08 PM   #390
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Yeah I'm sure he didn't. It was obviously all just some election stunt....
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:59 PM   #391
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Well, he didn't. My point though is that blaming a politician for your actions and declaring 100% lack of inability to be a free thinker (like you're subject to Obamas view) is stupid.

Well, the democrats don't back gay marriage yet so therefore I think it's okay to back an anti gay campaign! Problem solved!
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:59 AM   #392
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Yeah, it is pretty stupid. But then again, blaming a religion for your actions and declaring a 100% lack of inability to be a free thinker is pretty stupid as well in my books.
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Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:25 AM   #393
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It's moments like that which make me think...

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Old 04-29-2014, 11:11 AM   #394
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i hesitate putting this in the gay thread, since HIV affects everyone, etc.

but it's fascinating, and touches on how diseases/conditions related to sex are somehow "worse" and more shameful than diseases/conditions related to other lifestyle factors (diet, exercise, cigarettes).

(and when i say "lifestyle" i mean it to refer to sex itself, usually unprotected, either hetero or homo, as hetero sex has transmitted much, much, much more HIV globally than homosex)




Quote:
As a doctor, I’d rather have HIV than diabetes

One of the most feared diseases in the world is now, for British doctors, a manageable chronic condition. It’s a triumph we’re oddly scared to talk about
163 CommentsMax Pemberton 19 April 2014


‘There is now a deadly virus, which anyone can catch from sex with an infected person. If we’re not careful, the people who’ve died so far, will be just the tip of the iceberg… If you ignore Aids, it could be the death of you.’ It has been hailed as one of the most memorable health campaigns ever created. The message couldn’t have been clearer and people were petrified. For anyone over the age of 30, the ‘Iceberg’ and ‘Tombstone’ adverts — as they came to be known — with John Hurt’s menacing voice-over, still bring back a sense of crushing dread. The UK actually led the way with its HIV public health campaigns; it was considered so successful in raising awareness that other countries adopted similar adverts relying on shock and fear. The thing I am most struck by now, however, is how over-the-top they seem.

It’s now 30 years since HIV was discovered. During my training as a doctor in central London in the late 1990s, people were still dying of Aids. But since then, incredible pharmacological advances have been made in how the virus is treated and managed. Combination medications — termed ‘highly active antiretroviral therapy’ or Haart — have resulted in being able to maintain the infected person’s immune system and therefore prevent the opportunistic infections that resulted in the development of Aids and led to death. Despite working in the centre of London with high-risk groups such as sex workers and drug addicts, I haven’t seen someone die of HIV for years. It’s now incredibly rare to die as a result of HIV/Aids in this country. The most recent statistics show that in 2012, less than 1 per cent of people with HIV died. This is about the same for the non-infected population. It’s hard, now, to argue that HIV is a death sentence.

Those who are dangerously unwell with the disease are often immigrants who have been infected for years, and present to hospital late with the kind of infections that we no longer see in those on medication. One study suggested that around 75 per cent of HIV-related inpatient admissions are immigrants, with about 60 per cent from Africa. For the vast majority of people with HIV in this country, though, the disease is managed entirely in outpatient clinics. HIV/Aids wards and specialist units have closed simply because there is no longer the volume of patients to fill them. This is a hugely encouraging fact, which would have seemed impossible to those who stood, in the 1980s and 1990s, as friends, family and loved ones faded away while doctors stood by utterly helpless. What is truly startling is the speed with which medicine responded to HIV.



A recent large epidemiological study showed that, for those diagnosed with HIV now, life expectancy is similar to someone who does not have the virus. The medical profession now considers HIV a chronic disease; it’s regarded in public health terms in the same category as, for example, type 2 diabetes. As a doctor I can tell you that, medically speaking, I’d rather have HIV than diabetes. While this might sound shocking or surprising, the facts speak for themselves: the prognosis for those with type 2 diabetes is much worse than for those with HIV. The risk of stroke in newly treated type 2 diabetes is more than double that of the general population. People with diabetes are four times more likely to have cardiovascular disease than someone without diabetes. In 20 to 30 per cent of people with diabetes, there’s damage to the kidney filtering system leading to kidney failure and the need for dialysis. Damage to the delicate vessels in the eye is a leading cause of blindness and damage to nerves is a leading cause of foot wounds and ulcers, which frequently lead to foot and leg amputations. For those with HIV, providing they take their medication, there are very few problems.

Many people are complacent about diabetes in a way that would seem reckless with HIV. People consider type 2 diabetes an irritant — something that can be easily fixed with tablets. But this is wrong. Regardless of how well it is controlled, type 2 diabetes is a progressive disease, which results in the need to increase pharmacological therapies over time. A recent study conducted in Australia showed that, after six years, 44 per cent of patients no longer responded to oral medication and required insulin injections. Oral medications eventually fail in most people, meaning that injections are almost inevitable at some point.

Now compare this with HIV. Fixed-dose medications (multiple antiretroviral drugs in a single tablet) have meant that most of those infected simply take a tablet a day. While no one wants to have to take medication for the rest of their lives, it’s a lot easier than injecting insulin. And of course there are side effects, but that’s true for diabetes medication and, with a bit of trial and error, most people find a medication that suits them. To put it starkly, the latest statistics show that because of Haart, HIV now no longer reduces your life expectancy, while having type 2 diabetes typically reduces it by ten years. But this isn’t an easy thing to say publicly.

The news about our incredible progress against HIV is only whispered about because there are concerns that if it is emphasised, then people will no longer take care to avoid infection. The HIV charities, full of older gay men who were mobilised by watching their friends and partners die of the disease in the 1980s and 1990s, are left woefully out of touch with the new realities of the disease. For them, HIV will always be the ogre lurking in the shadows, and so any attempt to put it within a wider context of chronic diseases is met with howls about insensitivity or recklessness. They still rely on mobilising outdated fears about the disease to promote safe sex in a way that, for example, diabetes charities never do about eating a healthy diet. By following this old strategy, they inadvertently help to perpetuate the stigma that those with the infection face.

Throughout its brief history, HIV has been both medicalised as a disease and moralised as a stigma. It is the social impact of the condition that now forms the focus after a diagnosis, often far more than the physical aspects. It is the fear of being ostracised that is the biggest problem for those who are newly diagnosed, not the virus itself. Rates of depression in those with HIV are nearly ten times higher than among the general public, in no small part because of the stigma that remains attached to the condition. And if HIV still has status as a scary disease, that’s down to society’s attitude — rather than the virus itself.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:23 PM   #395
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Yeah but sex is disgusting and immoral and should not happen until after marriage.
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Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-29-2014, 02:02 PM   #396
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“We didn’t bring this lawsuit to make others conform to our beliefs,
but to vindicate the right of all faiths to freely exercise their religious
practices,” said Donald C. Clark Jr., general counsel of the United Church
of Christ."

In America, we have a Constitution that's allows people to practice their religion. People's religious beliefs should not be restricted by laws or judges.


The One Religious Liberty Case Anti-Gay Conservatives Want To Ignore | Blog | Media Matters for America
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:08 AM   #397
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Yeah but sex is disgusting and immoral and should not happen until after marriage.
Plus isn't type II diabetes god's way of tellin them they should have laid off the twinkies when they were younger?
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:16 AM   #398
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In America, we have a Constitution that's allows people to practice their religion. People's religious beliefs should not be restricted by laws or judges.


The One Religious Liberty Case Anti-Gay Conservatives Want To Ignore | Blog | Media Matters for America
THat's great, so why isn't that law lived by? Why is the one religious belief of Christians so much more important that that of everyone else?

I'd say people should believe whatever they want to believe, as long as it doesn't get in the way of other people's beliefs. Keep it for yourself and don't force it onto others.

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Plus isn't type II diabetes god's way of tellin them they should have laid off the twinkies when they were younger?
Apparently so! But yeah, same with lung cancer. It's almost like it's 'cool' to have such a stupid disease, and it's the pitfall of our medical science developments. Since we can cure so much now, the idiots don't die as easily and they reproduce much faster, thus more idiots are born. It's an ongoing cycle that will eventually kill off human life as we know it.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:30 AM   #399
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I understand what you are saying, GG, but resentment against undesirable people for reproducing is rather a dangerous road to go down, don't you think?
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:56 AM   #400
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It's no road to go down, it's simply an observation of society as it is. There's a reason most animal species have a completely different system where the weak die and the strong species live on. Yet us humans choose to defy this so we have to live with the consequences.


But maybe this is a topic for a different thread... then again one could argue that gays do the human race and mother earth a favour as they do not reproduce.
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Originally Posted by GraceRyan View Post
And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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