The fake surrenders

[BrittanyNova]

I am aghast at what I heard on the news! Several of our guys were killed when a group of Iraqis pretended to surrender and then opened fire! Another group pretended to be civilians welcoming the Americans then shot them! This combined with the disgraceful treatment and murder of our POW's shows just how low the Iraqis can be. This dishonorable shit is against the Geneva convention and unbelieveable. Of course war is hell but you'd think at least some decency would be preserved among warriors. People who have more sympathy for the Iraqis than our military people sicken me. I don't think anything in Iraq is worth the precious, irreplaceable lives of our people in uniform. Sorry had to vent.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

i am not surprised that this happend.

 

[speedracer]

I am aghast at what I heard on the news! Several of our guys were killed when a group of Iraqis pretended to surrender and then opened fire! Another group pretended to be civilians welcoming the Americans then shot them! This combined with the disgraceful treatment and murder of our POW's shows just how low the Iraqis can be. This dishonorable shit is against the Genevea convention and unbelieveable. Of course war is hell but you'd think at least some decency would be preserved among warriors. People who have more sympathy for the Iraqis than our military people sicken me.

I don't thinkanything in Iraq is worth the precious, irreplaceable lives of our people in uniform. Sorry had to vent.

There are those of us who think that incidents like the above that happen every day in Iraq are precisely the reason why we *do* have to undertake military action in Iraq, but you probably already knew that...

 

[Scarletwine]

It is war. Are we not bombing "shock & awe" on their cities? How many have we killed. I haven't heard one estimate.

Wake up America, what did you expect? Are you so naive the think they wouldn't resist.

Take your blinders off. Have you seen the anti-American protests around the world. especially in Moslem countries?
It is coming true what the anti-unilateralist said.

 

[speedracer]

It is war. Are we not bombing "shock & awe" on their cities? How many have we killed. I haven't heard one estimate.

The Iraqi Propaganda Machine gives estimates of a few hundred. If this is the best the IPM can come up with, I'm not too worried.

Wake up America, what did you expect? Are you so naive the think they wouldn't resist.

Take your blinders off. Have you seen the anti-American protests around the world. especially in Moslem countries?
It is coming true what the anti-unilateralist said.

Rather premature to declare the war a failure after less than a week, don't you think?

 

[Lemonite]

Rather premature to declare the war a failure after less than a week, don't you think?

But never premature to hope for a failure eh?

Mr. Pink

 

[Dreadsox]

Wake up America, what did you expect? Are you so naive the think they wouldn't resist.

Actually, no I expect them to resist.....

However, I do as a former soldier expect that if people are saying they are going to surrender, that they do.

Instead, we get fake surrenders.....and more less than honorable behavior from our enemies.

So now, we can sit and wait for the inevitable because of these incidents, actual people surrendering getting killed because of the incidents today.

As to the numbers of casualties. We have as of today dropped more ordinance that in the entire Gulf War. Amazing that we have not heard more about civilian casulaties.

 

[nbcrusader]

It is war. Are we not bombing "shock & awe" on their cities? How many have we killed. I haven't heard one estimate.

Wake up America, what did you expect? Are you so naive the think they wouldn't resist.

Take your blinders off. Have you seen the anti-American protests around the world. especially in Moslem countries?
It is coming true what the anti-unilateralist said.

If you are in any way validating "fake surrenders" by the Iraqis, I find that an insult to the men and woman of the US and UK military who are conducting this military operation in a professional manner in accordance with all international rules of warfare. Fake surrenders put any Iraqi soldier wanting to surrender at greater risk.

The US could certainly conduct a military operation that would be less expensive and safer for US military personnel - it would, however, be at the expense of the Iraqi people. This is not happening.

Further, given the colorful twisting of facts by the Iraqi Minister of Information, I would not be surprised if civilian injuries were inflicted by Iraqi's for the television cameras.

Sorry, but this is a general vent. It is not directed at you Scarletwine.

 

[BVS]

No one is validating anything. It's just a lot of us weren't as naive to think the resistance wasn't going to be this strong. I believe there was a sence of arrogance throughout the "pro-war" people thinking this was going to be a quick and easy take over that resulted in very little casualties.

These guys are the underdogs, they have to fight by any means neccesary. "There are no rules in love and war." This statement may not exactly be true technically speaking, but these are extreme times for the Iraqi people, from their stand point, and call for extreme measures. These type of tactics have happened througout the history of war.

It saddens me that this is happening, but I'm not surprised.

 

[cloudimani]

Iraqis dont have the luxury of air strikes for their cowardly acts

 

[verte76]

No one is validating anything. It's just a lot of us weren't as naive to think the resistance wasn't going to be this strong. I believe there was a sence of arrogance throughout the "pro-war" people thinking this was going to be a quick and easy take over that resulted in very little casualties.

These guys are the underdogs, they have to fight by any means neccesary. "There are no rules in love and war." This statement may not exactly be true technically speaking, but these are extreme times for the Iraqi people, from their stand point, and call for extreme measures. These type of tactics have happened througout the history of war.

It saddens me that this is happening, but I'm not surprised.

Neither am I. It's war.

 

[nbcrusader]

These guys are the underdogs, they have to fight by any means neccesary.

As odd or repugnant as this may sound to you, there are clear, long-standing rules of war. Even though lives are lost, the world society upholds a standard by which this is done.

Your "any means necessary" standard is a validation of the fake surrenders.

 

[Gickies Gageeze]

fake surrenders is nothing new in war. as despicable as it is, i know for a fact it happened a lot during world war 2.

but yes, it is shameful. and to be honest, its only going to hurt the iraqi's because the americans will be (obviously) less trusting of them.

 

[BVS]

As odd or repugnant as this may sound to you, there are clear, long-standing rules of war. Even though lives are lost, the world society upholds a standard by which this is done.

Yes this is why I said "This statement may not exactly be true technically speaking"

Your "any means necessary" standard is a validation of the fake surrenders.

No I understand why they are doing it, I don't validate their actions, but I can see why. I'm saying in their minds, I would think "any means necessary" would probably be the only way they believe they have a chance. This was done in the American Revolution as well.

 

[V Nura]

If this continues it will be very bad for the iraqis..because the US military will perhaps deny iraqis' the privilege of surrender.

 

[verte76]

If this continues it will be very bad for the iraqis..because the US military will perhaps deny iraqis' the privilege of surrender.

True.

 

[Kristie]

The fake surrenders are shameful, but what suprises me is that the allied forces weren't better prepared for them...
Did they expect Saddam to fight honorably?

 

[Scarletwine]

The fake surrenders are shameful, but what suprises me is that the allied forces weren't better prepared for them...
Did they expect Saddam to fight honorably?

I agree, I expect they will do all means possible.
I'm not validating the use of these surrenders. I'm sure there are rules of war, I'm not sure we maintained the rules at the time of the revolution either.


No offense taken nbcrusader.

 

[womanfish]

I have to agree, this doesn't come as a big surprise to me, and I really would think that our troops would have taken greater precaution. It's sad that trusting someone and trying to save their life gets you killed. But hey The UN trusted Saddam would disarm for the last twelve years, so I guess some lessons continue to be learned.

Hopefully knowing the possibility of this, our troops will go to greater lengths to disarm and restrain those surrendering and they will keep themselves safe.

Still can't get the picture of the 7 executed POW's piled up like trash out of my head.

 

[Dreadsox]

Iraqis dont have the luxury of air strikes for their cowardly acts

My, now we are cowards? I come here each day thinking I will not see a comment worse than what I saw yesterday.

The only coward I see right now is President Bush. I call him a coward because he may very well be willing to risk American deaths because he has chosen to fight a war with kid gloves.

I have had it. This has been the most carefully executed planned war in history. For goodness sake, Bagdahd still has power. More care has been taken to avoid civilian casualties than in any war in HIstory. How to I know, more bombs have been dropped in the past week than in the entire war 12 years ago. If they were not being careful, where are the pictures, because you can bet your that if we had been klilling thousands of civilians it would be on TV.

President Bush I emplore you to take the gloves off, stop waiting for them to surrender. You are riskling our soldier's lives by your caution.

Cowards!!!!!

 

[melon]

However, I do as a former soldier expect that if people are saying they are going to surrender, that they do.

Instead, we get fake surrenders.....and more less than honorable behavior from our enemies.

This reminds me of the U.S. Revolutionary War. The British expected us to do the "honorable" thing and shoot each other standing and facing the other side. Instead, we perfected the guerrilla-style war.

Let's face it. This is a war where our enemy is much less trained and armed than we are. Expect unconventional tactics, just as in the Vietnam War. I certainly don't think the U.S. would be "conventional" if an enemy army was near to conquering our nation, now do you?

Really...just think about it.

Melon

 

[Dreadsox]

I was just reading some of the 1st hand information from the Battle of Lexington and Concord. Yep, I guess I am being a bit naive. Sad thing is though, eventually, if this continues, someone will get shot when they really are surrendering.

Peace

PS. Nice to see ya!

 

[Gickies Gageeze]

Sad thing is though, eventually, if this continues, someone will get shot when they really are surrendering.

Peace

PS. Nice to see ya!

indeed, thats the way it goes.

 

[Clark W. Griswold Jr]

I find it hard to believe that our forces were not better prepared for this kind of ambush. It seems like they bought into the pre-war predictions of mass surrenders from the outset. I feel badly for the troops but it sounds like they were a little lax and didn't follow proper precautions.

 

[nbcrusader]

At times, I think we view our military as invincible. But even the best military training is subject to the chaos of the battle field.

Unfortunately, the mass surrenders are accompanied with massive losses by the Iraqis.

 

[cloudimani]

My, now we are cowards? I come here each day thinking I will not see a comment worse than what I saw yesterday.

The only coward I see right now is President Bush. I call him a coward because he may very well be willing to risk American deaths because he has chosen to fight a war with kid gloves.

I have had it. This has been the most carefully executed planned war in history. For goodness sake, Bagdahd still has power. More care has been taken to avoid civilian casualties than in any war in HIstory. How to I know, more bombs have been dropped in the past week than in the entire war 12 years ago. If they were not being careful, where are the pictures, because you can bet your that if we had been klilling thousands of civilians it would be on TV.

President Bush I emplore you to take the gloves off, stop waiting for them to surrender. You are riskling our soldier's lives by your caution.

Cowards!!!!!

Don't worry, every day I see comments here more stupid than the last, generally made by the same subset of posters.

And yes, I do believe the tactics are cowardly. Such a huge display of force in completely in contrast to the Iraqi ability to retaliate. America claims to hold the moral highground, but that highground is looking more like a quicksand to be honest, are assassination attempts moral?

I think when supposedly ordinary people are baying for the blood of their enemies its really quite disturbing

 

[Dreadsox]

Don't worry, every day I see comments here more stupid than the last, generally made by the same subset of posters.

Touche

And yes, I do believe the tactics are cowardly. Such a huge display of force in completely in contrast to the Iraqi ability to retaliate. America claims to hold the moral highground, but that highground is looking more like a quicksand to be honest, are assassination attempts moral?

Yep, it is cowardly to bomb their command and control center instead of their troops. It is cowardly to not bomb their power facilities. It is cowardly to drop pamphlets urging people to surrender. There were many people here who argued from the peace side that there should be an attempt to bump Saddam off. I guess it is moral or acceptable on some level.

The whole strategy has been based around the principal of saving lives, Iraqi lives and American lives.

It is sad that people consider this cowardly when it puts coalition lives at risk.

I think when supposedly ordinary people are baying for the blood of their enemies its really quite disturbing

It is kind of hard to know who the ordinary people are now isn't it? Their soldiers are no longer wearing their uniforms, but civilian clothes. There are reports from the embedded reporters of elderly people being forced out of their homes and given rifles to march in front of the enemey soldiers. They are shot if they refuse to fire on the coalition forces.

What I find disturbing is that the world continues to turn its back on the fact that this man has killed more of his own and could give two 's about his own people.

Of course this is just my opinion, and it is different than yours. I will continue to type my "stupid" comments at another time. There is a difference between claiming someone's comments are "stupid" and making a personal attack on the servicemen and women and saying they are cowards.

 

[kobayashi]

The Iraqi Propaganda Machine gives estimates of a few hundred. If this is the best the IPM can come up with, I'm not too worried.

you are critical of 'IPM' as you put it, yet you have obviously taken word from your media that these 'fake surrenders' are occuring at face value?

yes the fake surrender is deplorable. but im not so sure i will just believe it happened...much like iraqi estimates of civilian death.

 

[U2girl]

I read about them using Iraqui civilians as live shields, but I have not read anything about fake surrenders over here. Both things are wrong, but on the other hand, you can never predict what will happen in a war.

On the other hand, seeing worries about American soldiers being POWs, I am also worried about Iraqui soldiers being POWs...both sides have shown images of them.

 

[nbcrusader]

Iraqi POWs get food and shelter

US POWs get a bullet through the forehead