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Old 03-24-2003, 07:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
However, I do as a former soldier expect that if people are saying they are going to surrender, that they do.

Instead, we get fake surrenders.....and more less than honorable behavior from our enemies.
This reminds me of the U.S. Revolutionary War. The British expected us to do the "honorable" thing and shoot each other standing and facing the other side. Instead, we perfected the guerrilla-style war.

Let's face it. This is a war where our enemy is much less trained and armed than we are. Expect unconventional tactics, just as in the Vietnam War. I certainly don't think the U.S. would be "conventional" if an enemy army was near to conquering our nation, now do you?

Really...just think about it.

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Old 03-24-2003, 07:18 PM   #22
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I was just reading some of the 1st hand information from the Battle of Lexington and Concord. Yep, I guess I am being a bit naive. Sad thing is though, eventually, if this continues, someone will get shot when they really are surrendering.

Peace

PS. Nice to see ya!
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Old 03-24-2003, 10:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Sad thing is though, eventually, if this continues, someone will get shot when they really are surrendering.

Peace

PS. Nice to see ya!
indeed, thats the way it goes.
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:47 AM   #24
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I find it hard to believe that our forces were not better prepared for this kind of ambush. It seems like they bought into the pre-war predictions of mass surrenders from the outset. I feel badly for the troops but it sounds like they were a little lax and didn't follow proper precautions.
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:52 AM   #25
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At times, I think we view our military as invincible. But even the best military training is subject to the chaos of the battle field.

Unfortunately, the mass surrenders are accompanied with massive losses by the Iraqis.
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Old 03-25-2003, 04:40 AM   #26
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Originally posted by Dreadsox

My, now we are cowards? I come here each day thinking I will not see a comment worse than what I saw yesterday.

The only coward I see right now is President Bush. I call him a coward because he may very well be willing to risk American deaths because he has chosen to fight a war with kid gloves.

I have had it. This has been the most carefully executed planned war in history. For goodness sake, Bagdahd still has power. More care has been taken to avoid civilian casualties than in any war in HIstory. How to I know, more bombs have been dropped in the past week than in the entire war 12 years ago. If they were not being careful, where are the pictures, because you can bet your that if we had been klilling thousands of civilians it would be on TV.

President Bush I emplore you to take the gloves off, stop waiting for them to surrender. You are riskling our soldier's lives by your caution.

Cowards!!!!!
Don't worry, every day I see comments here more stupid than the last, generally made by the same subset of posters.

And yes, I do believe the tactics are cowardly. Such a huge display of force in completely in contrast to the Iraqi ability to retaliate. America claims to hold the moral highground, but that highground is looking more like a quicksand to be honest, are assassination attempts moral?

I think when supposedly ordinary people are baying for the blood of their enemies its really quite disturbing
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Old 03-25-2003, 06:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani


Don't worry, every day I see comments here more stupid than the last, generally made by the same subset of posters.

Touche


Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani

And yes, I do believe the tactics are cowardly. Such a huge display of force in completely in contrast to the Iraqi ability to retaliate. America claims to hold the moral highground, but that highground is looking more like a quicksand to be honest, are assassination attempts moral?
Yep, it is cowardly to bomb their command and control center instead of their troops. It is cowardly to not bomb their power facilities. It is cowardly to drop pamphlets urging people to surrender. There were many people here who argued from the peace side that there should be an attempt to bump Saddam off. I guess it is moral or acceptable on some level.

The whole strategy has been based around the principal of saving lives, Iraqi lives and American lives.

It is sad that people consider this cowardly when it puts coalition lives at risk.



Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani

I think when supposedly ordinary people are baying for the blood of their enemies its really quite disturbing
It is kind of hard to know who the ordinary people are now isn't it? Their soldiers are no longer wearing their uniforms, but civilian clothes. There are reports from the embedded reporters of elderly people being forced out of their homes and given rifles to march in front of the enemey soldiers. They are shot if they refuse to fire on the coalition forces.

What I find disturbing is that the world continues to turn its back on the fact that this man has killed more of his own and could give two 's about his own people.

Of course this is just my opinion, and it is different than yours. I will continue to type my "stupid" comments at another time. There is a difference between claiming someone's comments are "stupid" and making a personal attack on the servicemen and women and saying they are cowards.
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Old 03-25-2003, 07:56 AM   #28
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The Iraqi Propaganda Machine gives estimates of a few hundred. If this is the best the IPM can come up with, I'm not too worried.
you are critical of 'IPM' as you put it, yet you have obviously taken word from your media that these 'fake surrenders' are occuring at face value?

yes the fake surrender is deplorable. but im not so sure i will just believe it happened...much like iraqi estimates of civilian death.
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Old 03-25-2003, 08:21 AM   #29
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I read about them using Iraqui civilians as live shields, but I have not read anything about fake surrenders over here. Both things are wrong, but on the other hand, you can never predict what will happen in a war.

On the other hand, seeing worries about American soldiers being POWs, I am also worried about Iraqui soldiers being POWs...both sides have shown images of them.
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:10 AM   #30
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Iraqi POWs get food and shelter

US POWs get a bullet through the forehead
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:28 AM   #31
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:28 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Iraqi POWs get food and shelter

US POWs get a bullet through the forehead
Where is the evidence that US POWs got a bullet through their forehead? I read about this rumour here on Interference and did some research on (American) news-sites as the Dutch media have not reported it. However, I also found no evidence of this at the site of the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com) or of the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk). Not even CNN, which has an article about the POWs and their families today, mentions any POWs shot dead.

So where is evidence of this behaviour?

Marty
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:46 AM   #33
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There was no evidence that those soldiers were not killed in the fighting.
The captured helicopter pilot was shown today and appears to be in good health.

As far as bumping Sadaam off, no it isn't very moral, but a better alternative than the thousands that are dying for 10 or 12 wanted men.
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Old 03-25-2003, 09:52 AM   #34
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there are a lot of filters clouding the numbers we are quoting.
weight them accordingly
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Old 03-25-2003, 11:39 AM   #35
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i agree with kobe. people on both sides need to watch the so-called numbers they are citing.
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Old 03-25-2003, 11:42 AM   #36
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn


Where is the evidence that US POWs got a bullet through their forehead? I read about this rumour here on Interference and did some research on (American) news-sites as the Dutch media have not reported it. However, I also found no evidence of this at the site of the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com) or of the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk). Not even CNN, which has an article about the POWs and their families today, mentions any POWs shot dead.

So where is evidence of this behaviour?

Marty

From yahoo.com:

DOHA (AFP) - Al Jazeera TV broadcast images of several dead bodies, apparently of US soldiers killed in Iraq (news - web sites), along with five prisoners, including two wounded, one of them a woman.

The bodies shown Sunday were wearing bloodstained camouflage uniforms and some appeared to have bullet wounds to the head.



From CNN:
(CNN) -- Army officials said Sunday that about 10 soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company, based at Fort Bliss, Texas, are unaccounted for after an encounter with Iraqi forces during maneuvers with the 3rd Infantry Division in southern Iraq. The Arabic-language Al-Jazeera network broadcast pictures that Iraqi television, which shot the video, said showed five captured U.S. soldiers; the bodies of four more soldiers with gunshot wounds to the head were also shown.

Also watched videos from several news sources ABC and NBC both have video reports of reporters saying that reports from the field showed 10 to 12 U.S. soldiers being led away by Iraqi military and then the video shown on Al-Jazeera TV showed 5 alive and at least 5 dead, most with visible gunshots to the head.

From WNBC:
"Experts who reviewed the tapes agree that the wounds of the dead soldiers are consistent with an execution style killing and the chance of such wounds resulting from combat is extremely unlikely."
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
U2Girl-
Sometimes..u need to stop being so singleminded.

DB9
Excuse me? How is what I wrote single-minded?

I think if we should talk about POWs on both sides. I think any misconduct is to be checked by non-biased sources. (that goes for both US and Iraquis)
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Old 03-25-2003, 01:43 PM   #39
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I would only add to womanfish's post that the group of dead POWs were from the 507th Maintenance Company, not front line troops. It is highly unlikely that such a support group would engage Iraqi troops in a firefight.
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Old 03-25-2003, 02:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

...This has been the most carefully executed planned war in history. More care has been taken to avoid civilian casualties than in any war in HIstory...
That's why Basra today was officially declared a "military objective". That's exactly what I expected. I guess that means that from now on the coalition forces may kill everybody in Basra: there are no civilians, it's military objective now. I hope that there still will be some "liberated" people alive when "liberators" enter Baghdad...
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