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DB9
Sometimes..u need to stop being so singleminded.
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The fake surrenders
- Thread starter BrittanyNova
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Popmartijn
Blue Crack Supplier
nbcrusader said:
Where is the evidence that US POWs got a bullet through their forehead? I read about this rumour here on Interference and did some research on (American) news-sites as the Dutch media have not reported it. However, I also found no evidence of this at the site of the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com) or of the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk). Not even CNN, which has an article about the POWs and their families today, mentions any POWs shot dead.
So where is evidence of this behaviour?
Marty
Scarletwine
New Yorker
There was no evidence that those soldiers were not killed in the fighting.
The captured helicopter pilot was shown today and appears to be in good health.
As far as bumping Sadaam off, no it isn't very moral, but a better alternative than the thousands that are dying for 10 or 12 wanted men.
The captured helicopter pilot was shown today and appears to be in good health.
As far as bumping Sadaam off, no it isn't very moral, but a better alternative than the thousands that are dying for 10 or 12 wanted men.
Screaming Flower
ONE love, blood, life
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i agree with kobe. people on both sides need to watch the so-called numbers they are citing.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Popmartijn said:
From yahoo.com:
DOHA (AFP) - Al Jazeera TV broadcast images of several dead bodies, apparently of US soldiers killed in Iraq (news - web sites), along with five prisoners, including two wounded, one of them a woman.
The bodies shown Sunday were wearing bloodstained camouflage uniforms and some appeared to have bullet wounds to the head.
From CNN:
(CNN) -- Army officials said Sunday that about 10 soldiers of the 507th Maintenance Company, based at Fort Bliss, Texas, are unaccounted for after an encounter with Iraqi forces during maneuvers with the 3rd Infantry Division in southern Iraq. The Arabic-language Al-Jazeera network broadcast pictures that Iraqi television, which shot the video, said showed five captured U.S. soldiers; the bodies of four more soldiers with gunshot wounds to the head were also shown.
Also watched videos from several news sources ABC and NBC both have video reports of reporters saying that reports from the field showed 10 to 12 U.S. soldiers being led away by Iraqi military and then the video shown on Al-Jazeera TV showed 5 alive and at least 5 dead, most with visible gunshots to the head.
From WNBC:
"Experts who reviewed the tapes agree that the wounds of the dead soldiers are consistent with an execution style killing and the chance of such wounds resulting from combat is extremely unlikely."
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nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
I would only add to womanfish's post that the group of dead POWs were from the 507th Maintenance Company, not front line troops. It is highly unlikely that such a support group would engage Iraqi troops in a firefight.
Dreadsox said:
That's why Basra today was officially declared a "military objective". That's exactly what I expected. I guess that means that from now on the coalition forces may kill everybody in Basra: there are no civilians, it's military objective now. I hope that there still will be some "liberated" people alive when "liberators" enter Baghdad...
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
ALEXRUS said:
Sometimes I just can't help but laugh at the things that people make up. Basrah is now a military objective because guerilla forces continue to fire on U.S. troops. They are now dressing as civilians, they are also taking over civilian homes, killing citizens of Basrah if they don't cooperate and using women, children and elderly as human shields.
Being a military objective does not mean leveling a city and killing all it's inhabitants. It means that they previously thought that they could bypass Basrah with not much resistance, secure it so humanitarian aid could come into it's ports and move on up to Baghdad. Now it means they have to actually go into the city, and root out the guerilla forces, while trying to save civilians from being killed by their own people.
Please don't make up stories about the coalition forces going in to kill everyone in a town and that they don't consider anyone a civilian.
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nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
ALEXRUS said:
Where do you get your information? Iraqi troops are currently trying to subdue a civilian uprising in Basra. If civilians are targeted in Iraq, the odds are that Iraqi troops are pulling the trigger.
It appears that you believe that the coalition wants to target civilians or will kill them at the first chance available. The facts, unfortunately, do not support your contentions.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
ALEXRUS said:
If I could spell the name of the geurilla force I would. I know that their name pronounced: fed a een. This is a well known guerilla force in the area.
I'm not sure I understand your civilian question, but there are civilians (in everyday clothes) then there are military and guerilla forces that are dressing in these everyday clothes as to not look like a threat to the coalition forces and then shooting us.
I would imagine the only way you could tell the difference between a "real" civilian and fake one is when they pull their machine gun on you.
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womanfish said:
Exactly. Do not take it personal but when you start giving YOUR ideas and when you do not just repeat things you get in some...hmmm...let's call them official sources...I like it.
So I think as this war goes on, there will be more and more "guerilla forces"="fake civilians" and less "real civilians"...
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
ALEXRUS said:
Exactly. Do not take it personal but when you start giving YOUR ideas and when you do not just repeat things you get in some...hmmm...let's call them official sources...I like it.
So I think as this war goes on, there will be more and more "guerilla forces"="fake civilians" and less "real civilians"...
I can't make heads or tails of what you are trying to say. But if you think I am making it up, then that's your opinion i guess.
ALEXRUS said:
Exactly why their stripping off their uniforms is another strategy to cause more PR support.
It is exactly why, we need to stop playing like we had a chance at winning the PR war and start playing like we want to win.
By the way, do you mind asking your governement to stop sending equiptment to help them. Thanks.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
from FoxNews.com
Earlier Tuesday, in what appeared to be a critical moment for coalition forces, thousands of Shiites in Basra began a popular uprising against Saddam Hussein's forces, according to a British pool journalist embedded with coalition troops.
Iraqi Fedayeen were reportedly firing at the Shiite protesters, who had the support of British troops in the area. Coalition forces, in turn, were reportedly firing missiles at the pro-Saddam forces.
Meanwhile, senior Defense officials told Fox News that intelligence reports indicated Iraqi forces ? either special Republican Guard forces or Fedayeen Saddam terrorists ? in and around Basra were dressing up as U.S. soldiers, then accepting the surrender of other Iraqi forces and executing them.
Britain's ITN news network reported that thousands of people were rampaging through the Basra streets. Dozens of buildings were on fire, according to ITN, as the predominantly Shiite population was in revolt against Saddam's minority Sunni rulers.
But there were few reliable details of the chaotic situation inside the southern city of Basra, Iraq's second-largest with 1.3 million residents.
"We've had reports we can't substantiate as of yet of an uprising in Basra. We are closely monitoring the situation," said U.S. Marine Maj. David C. Andersen.
A British spokesman said a top Baath Party official was captured outside the southern Iraqi city.
Coalition forces wanted the people of Basra to attack soldiers loyal to Saddam. British troops backed by tanks and armored vehicles were massing on the outskirts of Basra and planning to enter the city.
"We'll help them every which way we can," British spokesman Chris Vernon told a news conference in Kuwait. "We are helping them when we took out probably the most senior Baath party guy in Basra this morning. That will have sent a shock wave through them."
Earlier Tuesday, in what appeared to be a critical moment for coalition forces, thousands of Shiites in Basra began a popular uprising against Saddam Hussein's forces, according to a British pool journalist embedded with coalition troops.
Iraqi Fedayeen were reportedly firing at the Shiite protesters, who had the support of British troops in the area. Coalition forces, in turn, were reportedly firing missiles at the pro-Saddam forces.
Meanwhile, senior Defense officials told Fox News that intelligence reports indicated Iraqi forces ? either special Republican Guard forces or Fedayeen Saddam terrorists ? in and around Basra were dressing up as U.S. soldiers, then accepting the surrender of other Iraqi forces and executing them.
Britain's ITN news network reported that thousands of people were rampaging through the Basra streets. Dozens of buildings were on fire, according to ITN, as the predominantly Shiite population was in revolt against Saddam's minority Sunni rulers.
But there were few reliable details of the chaotic situation inside the southern city of Basra, Iraq's second-largest with 1.3 million residents.
"We've had reports we can't substantiate as of yet of an uprising in Basra. We are closely monitoring the situation," said U.S. Marine Maj. David C. Andersen.
A British spokesman said a top Baath Party official was captured outside the southern Iraqi city.
Coalition forces wanted the people of Basra to attack soldiers loyal to Saddam. British troops backed by tanks and armored vehicles were massing on the outskirts of Basra and planning to enter the city.
"We'll help them every which way we can," British spokesman Chris Vernon told a news conference in Kuwait. "We are helping them when we took out probably the most senior Baath party guy in Basra this morning. That will have sent a shock wave through them."
Sweepie
The Fly
Well, I have to say, my friend's cousin was one of the murdered POW's. He was in Afghanistan and came home for one month before going to Iraq. He showed us pics of Afghanistan. My friend, her name is Angel, called me up and told me he was missing. Then she told me he was dead. I asked her if he was one of the guys shown on TV dead and she just cried. This is terrible. Some of you need to stop taking up for the Iraqis and giving them the benefit of the doubt and only acting like the Americans are the bad guys picking on the Iraqis. That makes me sick! A lot of those soldiers only joined because they needed money for college or a job. They are not monsters and do not deserve to be tricked or tortured. I saw the story about the murdered POW's on TV on NBC on Sunday. They said the Iraqis zoomed in on the faces of the dead guys. The video was shown on channels all over the world, but not in the US because it was tasteless but that doesn't mean it didn't happen and Bush made it all up like some of you seem to believe. I'm not even for the war! I don't want the war and I wish all the military people were home and my friend's cousin was alive again. But I hate to see America being badmouthed and people taking up for Iraq. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people- did you forget that?
Sweepie
The Fly
Thanks Dreadsox. When I find out more details I'll post it if her family doesn't mind
Screaming Flower
ONE love, blood, life
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i am so sorry Sweepie. my heart and prayers go out to you and your friend...
Dreadsox said:
By the way, do you mind asking your governement to stop sending equiptment to help them. Thanks.
Russian President and Prime minister (amony many others) denied that and promised any such activities discovered will be punished.
As for ITN: a British journalist said they got shot on by the Coalition forces. They enocountered Iraquis, (who according to him wanted to surrender), journalists started running away and Coalition forces fired away...4 or 5 of them were killed and only one survived to tell.
All I'm trying to say is people on both sides die, people on both sides can make mistakes in a war (there is no such thing as a 100% sure weapon, after all). It's not fair IMO to only talk about one side and make it look like no one else is getting hurt. (Iraqui soldiers have families worrying sick over them too, don't they?)
For example, on German TV I saw footage of an Iraqui living in Germany who was talking to his relatives in Baghdad. He was crying from fear what will happen to them... or an Iraqui woman in Baghdad, standing among ruins, talking how windows of their house got smashed and getting emotional/angry about the "clean" bombing.
I'm sorry for the losses on both sides, as well as the losses in the civilians during the bombings. (I thought majority of the people agreed on that)
Sweepie
For example, on German TV I saw footage of an Iraqui living in Germany who was talking to his relatives in Baghdad. He was crying from fear what will happen to them... or an Iraqui woman in Baghdad, standing among ruins, talking how windows of their house got smashed and getting emotional/angry about the "clean" bombing.
I'm sorry for the losses on both sides, as well as the losses in the civilians during the bombings. (I thought majority of the people agreed on that)
Sweepie
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Scarletwine
New Yorker
Sweepie, I'm very sorry.
Right there is your problem. Talk about bias.
womanfish said:
Right there is your problem. Talk about bias.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Scarletwine said:
Yep, totally disqualify a whole network and any information that they report. Sorry but I get my information from many sources, some that are known to be more conservative and some to be known as more liberal. I decide for myself what seems credible. I see that you don't do they same.
Now run off and read the New Independent and believe every single word.
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Dreadsox said:
By the way, do you mind asking your governement to stop sending equiptment to help them. Thanks.
I will do that. I hope you will also ask President Bush to stop the war in exchange.
Anyway, I think it's not correct to look for scapegoats to justify military miscalculations. If Iraqi military do not surrender in thousands it is not Russia to be blamed for that. If Iraqis provide fierce resistance, it is not Russia to be blamed for that. Russia did not start this war.
A pair of night vision goggles can stop the US military machine? What's it worth then?
BrittanyNova
The Fly
I'm sorry Sweepie
The fake surrenders still really upset me. I hated to see people dying from being tricked. Of course everybody is going to fight back but even in the worst wars there should be more honor than that.
Now they say Iraq is making old people walk in front of troops as shields and shoot them if they don't, and that they are putting targets in civilian neighborhoods so when the Americans bomb, it will look like they killed civilians on purpose for bad press. If all this stuff is really happening, it looks like people on this forum care more about Iraqi civilians than their government does! They probably hope a lot do die so they can villianize America more. That's messed up.
The fake surrenders still really upset me. I hated to see people dying from being tricked. Of course everybody is going to fight back but even in the worst wars there should be more honor than that.
Now they say Iraq is making old people walk in front of troops as shields and shoot them if they don't, and that they are putting targets in civilian neighborhoods so when the Americans bomb, it will look like they killed civilians on purpose for bad press. If all this stuff is really happening, it looks like people on this forum care more about Iraqi civilians than their government does! They probably hope a lot do die so they can villianize America more. That's messed up.
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