The End is Nigh: US Presidential Election Thread Part XVI

[bono_212]

I am retiring from Interference.

Because you can't accept the fact that not EVERYONE in the party is as gaga as you about Sanders? I also would have had a hard time voting for him. You don't need to leave because we don't agree on a nominee.

I'd have voted for Sanders only because of his opponent.

Many others would have stayed home, much like you stated.

We'll never know, cause it never happened.

This was a steam train barreling towards us. The last ditch desperation of rural and older white America, trying to hold on to the "good ole days."

This is my opinion on the subject as well.

 

[deep]

Stock Market - Trump era, day 1, all time high

 

[anitram]

We don't know, can't know and will never know whether Bernie Sanders would have done better. He would have been a riskier candidate who maybe carried greater reward but nobody can know that.

More important are the lessons for the party going forward. The Tim Kaines and Chuck Schumers and Steny Hoyers, if they're the standard bearers then we'll know nothing has registered at all.

Is Kanye West still running in 20/20?

 

[deep]

I hope so.

 

[gump]

Sanders always reminded me of some Latin American populists, which I tend to really detest coming from that region. That said, I'm not sure "socialism" would have been a big flaw in an election where the winner was explicitly tied to Russia.

In hindsight, Biden would have possibly been the best nominee to keep the blue collar defection in check while rallying the minorities and other traditional constituencies.

But here's the thing about populism: it's fucking hard to stop it.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Because you can't accept the fact that not EVERYONE in the party is as gaga as you about Sanders? I also would have had a hard time voting for him. You don't need to leave because we don't agree on a nominee.

I'm going to try not to directly speak for Peef, but it's my understanding that his frustration comes from the fact that he was entirely reserved and allowed for the system to work itself out. He wasn't "Gaga" about Sanders. I recall him being frustrated over not being allowed to be between Sanders and Clinton, because the instant "Bernie Bro" discrediting label got stuck on anyone who supported Sanders. I don't know if this is what he actually feels, but I certainly felt this way.

So it's absurd that when the election is the "lesser of two negatives," but one of them is legitimately a fucking joke, anyone would say "I wouldn't have voted." You're telling me you would've been content with not playing ball in Trump v Sanders? Did I miss the part where Sanders was a sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman? Isn't that a big reason as to why we all had to unite against him, regardless of our perceptions of Clinton?

 

[Irvine511]

had Sanders been on the ticket i would have voted for him in a heartbeat.

because i don't put my own personal vanity above the lives of others.

 

[bono_212]

I'm going to try not to directly speak for Peef, but it's my understanding that his frustration comes from the fact that he was entirely reserved and allowed for the system to work itself out. He wasn't "Gaga" about Sanders. I recall him being frustrated over not being allowed to be between Sanders and Clinton, because the instant "Bernie Bro" discrediting label got stuck on anyone who supported Sanders. I don't know if this is what he actually feels, but I certainly felt this way.

So it's absurd that when the election is the "lesser of two negatives," but one of them is legitimately a fucking joke, anyone would say "I wouldn't have voted." You're telling me you would've been content with not playing ball in Trump v Sanders? Did I miss the part where Sanders was a sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman? Isn't that a big reason as to why we all had to unite against him, regardless of our perceptions of Clinton?

"Had a hard time voting for him". Didn't say I wouldn't do it. There were many people who didn't do the same for Hillary against a "sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman".

And I get that Peef may have been frustrated, but in the single moment that he said he's leaving Interference, THAT was the post that set him off, BVS not agreeing with him. Hence my response.

It goes against EVERYTHING I believe and stand for to vote for someone I don't agree with, but I would've done it against Trump, had it been Bernie or Hillary. Because it was the right thing to do, regardless of how I felt about Bernie. But I still would've been morally conflicted about it.

 

[LemonMelon]

I can't blame someone in a comfortably blue state like California, Maryland or New York for staying home if they don't feel strongly about the candidates. I wrote in Bernie because I knew my vote wouldn't have an impact (it didn't) and he was a candidate I believed in. That's what the spot is there for. That said, if I were a citizen of Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, wherever, you can trust that I would set myself aside for the greater good and vote for the candidate I felt would cause less harm to others.

Thinking about it now, I've taken solace in Hillary winning the popular vote and perhaps I would have felt better had I contributed to that figure. I don't know.

Fuck the electoral college, seriously.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

And I get that Peef may have been frustrated, but in the single moment that he said he's leaving Interference, THAT was the post that set him off, BVS not agreeing with him. Hence my response.

I can only imagine he was being mildly and bitterly sarcastic. Time will tell?

It goes against EVERYTHING I believe and stand for to vote for someone I don't agree with, but I would've done it against Trump, had it been Bernie or Hillary. Because it was the right thing to do, regardless of how I felt about Bernie. But I still would've been morally conflicted about it.

Yes and I'm sure you've noticed I share the same sentiment about not voting for someone I don't agree with. In fact, that's led to many philosophical debates where I support third party voting, since I don't feel like anyone is obliged to give their vote to someone. Much like you, I think Trump is an exceptional case, where it's selfish to not support his opponent because he's an asshole and a con. Sorry for misinterpreting your first post.

 

[phanan]

I guess it will be Trump v. Warren for 2020.

 

[kiwilad]

I guess it will be Trump v. Warren for 2020.

Or will there be a movement to fast track Michelle Obama into contention?

Sent from my SM-G920I using U2 Interference mobile app

 

[BVS]

Or will there be a movement to fast track Michelle Obama into contention?

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YES, please!

 

[namkcuR]

Not sure she wants it.

Maybe another name to look out for is Gavin Newsom of California. Although he's running for governor in 2018, so maybe he'd be more likely for 2024 when his first term would be up.

Corey Booker?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Sanders connected with people. He loved America and it was intangibly apparent in presentation.

Hillary could not replicate that emotional bridge to the voters en masse. Gore had the same issue.

2020 Dems should find a vibrant Sanders like figure. Fight Trumpian populism with progressive populism


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

As a registered Independent I voted for Bernie in our primary this year, our state allowed us to vote for the Dems but not the GOP. Despite some of his policies i guess i just kind of liked the guy. Also the more i thought about HRC and the more i tried to force myself to like her, i just couldn't do it. I guess all of the scandals and baggage took it's toll.

She scares me in the same way that TRUMP scares a lot of the people here. And for that i really do empathize with folks here, as i am sure they did for me back in 08 and 12.

I didn't make the switch over to TRUMP until probably early July, or just after it was discovered that WJC had that secret meeting with the AG on the tarmac in Phoenix. That was kind of the last straw for me i guess.

ETA: There was a moment or two this week where i considered voting for Dr. Jill Stein. I follow her on twitter and I love the pictures of her and her cat, i related to that on so many levels ( i realize that sounds silly here but oh well). I stared at the ballot for several moments pondering...but in the end i realized i had to vote for TRUMP because the risk of HRC getting elected and enforcing the no-fly zone in Syria / starting WW3 was just way way too much.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

But the risk of an unhinged coocoo bird doing something stupid was just fine and dandy with you

 

[gump]

As I was saying earlier, Presidents tend to do what they promise, Part I:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/

Donald Trump has selected one of the best-known climate skeptics to lead his U.S. EPA transition team, according to two sources close to the campaign

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Fantastic.

Thanks again, guys

 

[BVS]

I think that was the point;, socially, scientifically, and our stance globally will be reversed by decades.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[gump]

My friends and colleagues who work on climate change issues are just so depressed. It's astounding.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

But the risk of an unhinged coocoo bird doing something stupid was just fine and dandy with you

i am coocoo for cocoa puffs

 

[bono_212]

Just thinking about all of the things that were starting to change and will probably take a huge nose-dive now, like the discussions between police and the communities they are meant to protect. Who in Washington is going to press for that change now?

 

[monkeyskin]

Whilst Hillary seems to be on course to win the popular vote, the map is much more red than it was back in 2012. For all the progress that we on the left believe has been achieved in the US, clearly a significant portion of the country has rejected it.

Without getting into what is 'right' and 'wrong' and therefore that which cannot be compromised upon, what do the Democrats need to do from here? Is there a way for them to both keep their principals and appease the people who felt left behind? If not then we may be in for a lengthy return to Reagan-Bush Snr / Thatcher-Major period of over a decade.

I truly wanted Clinton to win in a landslide. But as with Brexit, those living out of the major city/cities had other ideas.

 

[BVS]

Whilst Hillary seems to be on course to win the popular vote, the map is much more red than it was back in 2012. For all the progress that we on the left believe has been achieved in the US, clearly a significant portion of the country has rejected it.

Without getting into what is 'right' and 'wrong' and therefore that which cannot be compromised upon, what do the Democrats need to do from here? Is there a way for them to both keep their principals and appease the people who felt left behind? If not then we may be in for a lengthy return to Reagan-Bush Snr / Thatcher-Major period of over a decade.

I truly wanted Clinton to win in a landslide. But as with Brexit, those living out of the major city/cities had other ideas.

Or maybe they reject all their principles like the GOP did


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[mama cass]

i post things here that i don't post/say in real life because i'm pleasant and nice in real life.

In Florida, Hillary Clinton lost by about 1.4% of the vote – but if Jill Stein’s supporters and half of Gary Johnson’s backers had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

Similarly, in Pennsylvania, Clinton lost by about 1.1% of the vote – but if Jill Stein’s supporters and half of Gary Johnson’s backers had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

In Wisconsin, Clinton lost by about 1% of the vote – but if Stein’s supporters had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

In Michigan, Clinton appears to be on track to lose by about 0.3% of the vote – but if half of Stein’s supporters had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

oh man that's heartbreaking

the split vote (everything other than Le Pen Front National) will be a big worry here in France next year too - normally the French do a protest vote in the 1st round and Le Pen gets thru to the second round and then they panic and get their shit together to do a strategic vote to keep the extremists out - this has worked since 2002, but my main worry is, seeing as the "anti-establishment" votes here (especially among young people) seem to be split equally between far left and extreme right, if the socialists and centre parties don't get their act together and far left Melenchon gets thru, i don't think he will stand a chance against Le Pen in the final round - we need the centrists (hopefully Juppe) to get thru and face off against Le Pen - sobering and terrifying times

as opposed to Brexit and Trump, where it was mainly the older generations who pushed it thru, apparently that is not the case in France as the older generations still acutely remember occupation and post-war times here... the young people are so divided here it's so worrying

 

[DaveC]

thank you to the trump supporters for not taking the low hanging fruit and shitpost-gloating in here (beyond a few celebratory posts last night, and of course you are entitled to be happy when the results are announced). it's all i've been reading all day everywhere else online (also much wailing and gnashing of teeth) and it's nice that this place has had some genuine discussion today about what this means going forward and how it happened.

meanwhile, hillary isn't in jail yet. imagine the reaction if she had been elected and broke a major campaign promise without batting an eye on day one.

edit: oh, almost forgot to mention the argument i had at work today with someone who was convinced (despite being given several historical examples) that the united states constitutionally cannot change presidents during wartime, and that obama should start a war in the next two months so that yesterday's results are nullified and he can keep the job for another four years.

 

[Oregoropa]

thank you to the trump supporters for not taking the low hanging fruit and shitpost-gloating all day. it's all i've been reading all day everywhere else online (also much wailing and gnashing of teeth) and it's nice that this place has had some genuine discussion about what this means and how it happened today.

meanwhile, hillary isn't in jail yet. imagine the reaction if she had been elected and broke a major campaign promise without batting an eye on day one.

I think his call to "Drain The Swamp" of broken government-corruption is a good rally point for all Americans

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

When Hillary's concession speech was played on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange, a chant of "lock her up" broke out.

We're not done with that.

 

[gump]

When Hillary's concession speech was played on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange, a chant of "lock her up" broke out.

We're not done with that.

Economic anxiety, clearly.

 

[LemonMelon]

I think his call to "Drain The Swamp" of broken government-corruption is a good rally point for all Americans

Bernie's response to the results falls into line with this, as expected.

"Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer.

To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him. To the degree that he pursues racist, sexist, xenophobic and anti-environment policies, we will vigorously oppose him."