The End is Nigh: US Presidential Election Thread Part XVI - Page 46 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-09-2016, 07:21 PM   #901
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Sanders always reminded me of some Latin American populists, which I tend to really detest coming from that region. That said, I'm not sure "socialism" would have been a big flaw in an election where the winner was explicitly tied to Russia.

In hindsight, Biden would have possibly been the best nominee to keep the blue collar defection in check while rallying the minorities and other traditional constituencies.

But here's the thing about populism: it's fucking hard to stop it.
I did get the impression you weren't particularly left-of-centre when it came to Latin American politics.

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Or will there be a movement to fast track Michelle Obama into contention?

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Please no. No political dynasties, thanks.

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oh man that's heartbreaking

the split vote (everything other than Le Pen Front National) will be a big worry here in France next year too - normally the French do a protest vote in the 1st round and Le Pen gets thru to the second round and then they panic and get their shit together to do a strategic vote to keep the extremists out - this has worked since 2002, but my main worry is, seeing as the "anti-establishment" votes here (especially among young people) seem to be split equally between far left and extreme right, if the socialists and centre parties don't get their act together and far left Melenchon gets thru, i don't think he will stand a chance against Le Pen in the final round - we need the centrists (hopefully Juppe) to get thru and face off against Le Pen - sobering and terrifying times

as opposed to Brexit and Trump, where it was mainly the older generations who pushed it thru, apparently that is not the case in France as the older generations still acutely remember occupation and post-war times here... the young people are so divided here it's so worrying
I'm hoping Melenchon does well, or at least Nuit Debout could get back up and running (I'm not sure if it's still active or if it's hardly reported now). I was encouraged by the intensification of trade union/worker activity in response to the French government.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:29 PM   #902
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thank you to the trump supporters for not taking the low hanging fruit and shitpost-gloating in here (beyond a few celebratory posts last night, and of course you are entitled to be happy when the results are announced). it's all i've been reading all day everywhere else online (also much wailing and gnashing of teeth) and it's nice that this place has had some genuine discussion today about what this means going forward and how it happened.

meanwhile, hillary isn't in jail yet. imagine the reaction if she had been elected and broke a major campaign promise without batting an eye on day one.

edit: oh, almost forgot to mention the argument i had at work today with someone who was convinced (despite being given several historical examples) that the united states constitutionally cannot change presidents during wartime, and that obama should start a war in the next two months so that yesterday's results are nullified and he can keep the job for another four years.
Good Post.

Aside from a couple of brief comments last night (past my bedtime i might add) i have no desire to shitpost. I guess i am not the shit talker that i used to be, and for those who know or remember you would have to agree. I was hell once upon a time.

We need unity, here, there, and everywhere. TRUMP gave a good speech early this morning, Mrs. Clinton gave a good speech today, i haven't heard Mr. Obama's speech yet but i look forward to it. I like the idea of everyone coming together for a common good and healing. Things might be difficult for some and maybe for a while but hopefully it is all for the greater good and that all will eventually be realized.

I hope that makes sense.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:39 PM   #903
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but in the end i realized i had to vote for TRUMP because the risk of HRC getting elected and enforcing the no-fly zone in Syria / starting WW3 was just way way too much.
Whereas with Trump it'll be safer because he'll withdraw from military alliances and stand by idly while Putin invades Ukraine, China takes over more territory etc.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:43 PM   #904
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Whereas with Trump it'll be safer because he'll withdraw from military alliances and stand by idly while Putin invades Ukraine, China takes over more territory etc.
So you want the US to be the world police? Got it. I get confused sometimes because i can remember when the consensus here was we need to get out of everyone's business and just mind our own.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:47 PM   #905
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We need unity, here, there, and everywhere. TRUMP gave a good speech early this morning, Mrs. Clinton gave a good speech today, i haven't heard Mr. Obama's speech yet but i look forward to it. I like the idea of everyone coming together for a common good and healing. Things might be difficult for some and maybe for a while but hopefully it is all for the greater good and that all will eventually be realized.

I hope that makes sense.

It's incredibly easy to talk about unity after your team wins. I fail to see a scenario where the greater good was led by someone who ran a campaign against progress and tolerance. Donald Trump has lied every step of the way of his election. I thought it was a good speech by him too, but I've learned to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:50 PM   #906
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"Donald Trump tapped into the anger of a declining middle class that is sick and tired of establishment economics, establishment politics and the establishment media. People are tired of working longer hours for lower wages, of seeing decent paying jobs go to China and other low-wage countries, of billionaires not paying any federal income taxes and of not being able to afford a college education for their kids - all while the very rich become much richer."
But see, this is what I really don't get. Trump embodies a lot of the very things those same people claim to be tired of. He was proud of not paying federal income taxes for eighteen years. It "made him smart!" to do that. He keeps getting richer while the businesses he starts go bankrupt and the underlings who work for him get screwed over (and worked those long hours with little, if any pay at all, supposedly, according to some reports). His economic mindset is the very sort that would lead to jobs being shipped overseas-didn't he even say during one of the debates that he created jobs in other countries?

The ONLY thing out of that list he had going for him was that he wasn't an establishment politician. But he's a FREAKING REALITY TV STAR with absolutely ZERO political experience of any sort at all, who is so pathologically thin-skinned that he goes on three am Twitter rants or wages public fights when someone dares to criticize him or call him out on his bullshit. Like I said in a post a number of pages back, all the people I've heard complain about celebrity influence in politics just elected a reality TV star as our next president. How the hell does that make any sense?

Again, I get that people are frustrated with the economic situation (though I wonder if a lot of people are forgetting that it takes a LONG time to get out of the kind of deep recession that the Bush administration left us with). I get people are tired of establishment politics.

But I do not get how people honestly think someone like Trump is the answer they're looking for. He still embodies so much of what they claim to be so tired of, and provided he does follow through with much of what he plans to do as president, they've just added to their struggles with someone like him in charge. So what exactly did they gain here?
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:50 PM   #907
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So you want the US to be the world police? Got it. I get confused sometimes because i can remember when the consensus here was we need to get out of everyone's business and just mind our own.
I'm still part of that latter group and it's a matter that I differed on with Hillary.

There's a necessary balance that needs to be struck between isolationism and hawkishness and I'm not convinced that either candidate was likely to strike that.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:51 PM   #908
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Whereas with Trump it'll be safer because he'll withdraw from military alliances and stand by idly while Putin invades Ukraine, China takes over more territory etc.
The US has done enough damage via foreign intervention.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:54 PM   #909
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It's incredibly easy to talk about unity after your team wins. I fail to see a scenario where the greater good was led by someone who ran a campaign against progress and tolerance. Donald Trump has lied every step of the way of his election. I thought it was a good speech by him too, but I've learned to take everything he says with a grain of salt.

We can go back and forth all day and night about who lied to whom, my point was i would like to see some unity here in this forum first as that is all we can really control at the moment. As for TRUMP and how he governs, i would like to see unity and we should hold him accountable for that. I don't have to automatically vote for him again in 4 years...HE has to earn that if he wants it. Unifying the country would be a nice start.

I probably wouldn't have voted for him this time, as i had mentioned previously, but the democrats nominated someone i felt to be much more dangerous. We needed change and strong leadership, both of which has been sorely missing in a world run amok of chaos and wars either started by Obama/HRC or made worse by them. There is nothing progressive and/or tolerant about that.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:08 PM   #910
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Sorry, Mrs. G, you're not going to get me to support the xenophobic, racist, sexist, bigot who made friends of mine feel suicidal with his election this morning. Everything he said on the campaign trail didn't go away because of a speech. He riled people up, and you're deluding yourself if you think all of those people who suddenly feel enabled are just going to go back into hiding now.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:09 PM   #911
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I'm still part of that latter group and it's a matter that I differed on with Hillary.

There's a necessary balance that needs to be struck between isolationism and hawkishness and I'm not convinced that either candidate was likely to strike that.
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The US has done enough damage via foreign intervention.
i agree with all of this.

reducing foreign military levels is the first step to tackling the insane bloated beast that is the US defense budget.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:12 PM   #912
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We can go back and forth all day and night about who lied to whom, my point was i would like to see some unity here in this forum first as that is all we can really control at the moment. As for TRUMP and how he governs, i would like to see unity and we should hold him accountable for that. I don't have to automatically vote for him again in 4 years...HE has to earn that if he wants it. Unifying the country would be a nice start.
Forget about the lying and who lied more.

What about simply a sense of decency? Are we as women supposed to all happily unite now when we see a man who bragged about ogling MINOR girls naked in change rooms and who said that when you're rich and famous you can "do anything" to a woman including grabbing her pussy? I'm just bringing up this one thing, there are many others. There is no sense of decency there and it's really easy when you're a white man who hasn't had to go to work on a crowded subway where 2-3 men think it's totally fine to grab your ass, and when you're working in a corporate setting with the corner office partner calling you "love" and "sweetheart" and organizing a transaction closing dinner at a STRIP CLUB, and when you're walking down to Starbucks to get a coffee in the summer and some guy rolls down his window and hoots and screams obscenities at you and so on. So sure, now we have to unite with people who voted for a revolting pig to lead their nation. But I guess that is our reality, we just have to continue to live in that kind of world. Lucky for me I had a son, at least he won't have to deal with it.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:14 PM   #913
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Sorry, Mrs. G, you're not going to get me to support the xenophobic, racist, sexist, bigot who made friends of mine feel suicidal with his election this morning. Everything he said on the campaign trail didn't go away because of a speech. He riled people up, and you're deluding yourself if you think all of those people who suddenly feel enabled are just going to go back into hiding now.


My mom said she heard an awful lot of nasty, racist rhetoric from her coworkers today. Trump's emboldened a lot of people who now feel comfortable making anyone who doesn't fit their narrow idea of what a "real American" is feel like they don't belong.

"Make America Great Again" was basically the continuation of the "Take our country back!" rallying cry I've heard from conservatives for so many years now, and the implications of the latter sentiment were disturbing enough. Trump just added fuel to that nasty fire. And I really don't get how anyone can legitimately think Hillary is more dangerous than someone who's openly talked about banning all Muslims, or who got an endorsement from a freaking member of the KKK.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:27 PM   #914
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I did get the impression you weren't particularly left-of-centre when it came to Latin American politics.

Left-of-center in LatAm is a wide spectrum. I'm a social democrat. I oppose both the conservative right and the populist and undemocratic left.


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Old 11-09-2016, 08:43 PM   #915
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So you want the US to be the world police? Got it. I get confused sometimes because i can remember when the consensus here was we need to get out of everyone's business and just mind our own.
There's a pretty wide spectrum between being the world police and being a member of NATO and other alliances.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:52 PM   #916
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Oh I forgot to mention...

Now is a good time to want individual states to have their own powers. Checks and balances, folks. Seemed stupid in 2012 when we had a liberal president and a liberal congress. Now, ultra liberal places like California can reject the way of the Trump-Pence leadership on social policy and set a pathway for other states to follow.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:01 PM   #917
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Sorry, Mrs. G, you're not going to get me to support the xenophobic, racist, sexist, bigot who made friends of mine feel suicidal with his election this morning. Everything he said on the campaign trail didn't go away because of a speech. He riled people up, and you're deluding yourself if you think all of those people who suddenly feel enabled are just going to go back into hiding now.
My sincere apologies for your friends experience.

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Forget about the lying and who lied more.

What about simply a sense of decency? Are we as women supposed to all happily unite now when we see a man who bragged about ogling MINOR girls naked in change rooms and who said that when you're rich and famous you can "do anything" to a woman including grabbing her pussy? I'm just bringing up this one thing, there are many others. There is no sense of decency there and it's really easy when you're a white man who hasn't had to go to work on a crowded subway where 2-3 men think it's totally fine to grab your ass, and when you're working in a corporate setting with the corner office partner calling you "love" and "sweetheart" and organizing a transaction closing dinner at a STRIP CLUB, and when you're walking down to Starbucks to get a coffee in the summer and some guy rolls down his window and hoots and screams obscenities at you and so on. So sure, now we have to unite with people who voted for a revolting pig to lead their nation. But I guess that is our reality, we just have to continue to live in that kind of world. Lucky for me I had a son, at least he won't have to deal with it.
You bring up the "pussy grab" thing, which is bad and i do not condone to this day. If you do not wish to unite with fellow u2 fans who are sincerely offering an olive branch to you, then i am sorry but at least we are trying. Keep in mind there are always plenty of other u2 fans here, who like yourself hate TRUMP, but also who use the word "c__t" with an alarming regularity right here in this forum, some even in this thread. I guess that's okay with you though.

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My mom said she heard an awful lot of nasty, racist rhetoric from her coworkers today. Trump's emboldened a lot of people who now feel comfortable making anyone who doesn't fit their narrow idea of what a "real American" is feel like they don't belong.

"Make America Great Again" was basically the continuation of the "Take our country back!" rallying cry I've heard from conservatives for so many years now, and the implications of the latter sentiment were disturbing enough. Trump just added fuel to that nasty fire. And I really don't get how anyone can legitimately think Hillary is more dangerous than someone who's openly talked about banning all Muslims, or who got an endorsement from a freaking member of the KKK.
TRUMP did not say he was going to ban all Muslims, or if he did i believe he retracted it to mean all Muslims from a specific area until properly vetted. I suspect that area is the part of the world suffering from the consequences of our horrible and failed foreign policy which has led to many years of war.

Speaking of endorsements, i hope you took notice of the Clinton Foundation Donations that poured in from countries who support rape and murder of women, homosexuals, etc. I have been to some of those countries first hand and it still goes on to this day, very sad.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:07 PM   #918
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You bring up the "pussy grab" thing, which is bad and i do not condone to this day. If you do not wish to unite with fellow u2 fans who are sincerely offering an olive branch to you, then i am sorry but at least we are trying. Keep in mind there are always plenty of other u2 fans here, who like yourself hate TRUMP, but also who use the word "c__t" with an alarming regularity right here in this forum, some even in this thread. I guess that's okay with you though.
You really don't get it. Offer me an olive branch, it's easy to do for you because you don't have to live in the world that condones this behaviour. So you don't condone the pussy grab. And the forcible kissing? And the ogling of 15 year old naked girls? That's all great but what is most offensive and troubling is that so many Republicans and Trump supporters went out there including posters on this very board to convince us that this is NORMAL behaviour even among 12-year-old boys. So do you understand at all how it is hard for us to swallow an olive branch from people who as a group have told us that this is just normal boys will be boys talk? Like we women should just shrug it off as business as usual.

I hate the word cunt, I think it's awful and YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE of the indignities that we women go through. If you really understood that and cared rather than were trying to score points against posters in some kind of ongoing war of yours it would be one thing. Alas.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:39 PM   #919
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We can go back and forth all day and night about who lied to whom, my point was i would like to see some unity here in this forum first as that is all we can really control at the moment. As for TRUMP and how he governs, i would like to see unity and we should hold him accountable for that. I don't have to automatically vote for him again in 4 years...HE has to earn that if he wants it. Unifying the country would be a nice start.



I probably wouldn't have voted for him this time, as i had mentioned previously, but the democrats nominated someone i felt to be much more dangerous. We needed change and strong leadership, both of which has been sorely missing in a world run amok of chaos and wars either started by Obama/HRC or made worse by them. There is nothing progressive and/or tolerant about that.



You have been conned.
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:43 PM   #920
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