The End is Nigh: US Presidential Election Thread Part XVI

[BVS]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

Jesus fucking Christ.

What?! My vote wouldn't have counted, and I can't vote for someone who had no plan for almost 90% of his platform.

No reason for your constant over the top melodrama.

[TinKnight]

Meanwhile, interference is all I got. I refuse to post on reddit anymore.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

You're missing Peef's point then. This was a point I made during the primaries, though I should offer some revisions on it. Remember the whole "Trump and Sanders some of the same voters" thing? That was probably a bigger deal than we imagined. Blue collar white middle class America was the non traditional class that came out in flocks for Trump. That's something Sanders wouldn't have suffered so badly with. We saw the polls wrong for Trump in Michigan and we saw them wrong for Sanders in Michigan. Get the vibe: we missed an audience.

How am I missing his point?! How do we know "that's something Sanders wouldn't have suffered so badly with"? They're going to be divided on Socialism like any other demographic over 35. Just because of the off chance he "may have not suffered so badly with" how would he have done with the rest of the demographics? You know the ones he failed with miserably during the primaries.

[BEAL]

Sanders did next to nothing with minority vote. Clinton destroyed him in that area.

To think he would have out performed her on a national stage is unlikely.

There's dispute on how he'd do against trump in rural parts of these battleground states.

One concession is I think he would have done better with the youth vote and we'd see less of a 3rd party impact.

But these same people who came out for Trump because establishment, would have done so to fight socialism.

He also had no actual plans and policy, but that being said I would have voted for him versus trump


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[Irvine511]

i post things here that i don't post/say in real life because i'm pleasant and nice in real life.

In Florida, Hillary Clinton lost by about 1.4% of the vote – but if Jill Stein’s supporters and half of Gary Johnson’s backers had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

Similarly, in Pennsylvania, Clinton lost by about 1.1% of the vote – but if Jill Stein’s supporters and half of Gary Johnson’s backers had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

In Wisconsin, Clinton lost by about 1% of the vote – but if Stein’s supporters had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

In Michigan, Clinton appears to be on track to lose by about 0.3% of the vote – but if half of Stein’s supporters had voted Democratic, Trump would have lost the state.

Third-party voters played a key role in election results | MSNBC

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by BVS

How am I missing his point?! How do we know "that's something Sanders wouldn't have suffered so badly with"? They're going to be divided on Socialism like any other demographic over 35. Just because of the off chance he "may have not suffered so badly with" how would he have done with the rest of the demographics? You know the ones he failed with miserably during the primaries.

Dude I'm not getting into a long drawn out argument with you. I made an example out of an open primary state portraying how an unaccounted for gap made a huge difference was both relatable to Trump and to Sanders.

Clearly this is bigger than all of those demographics. I'm sure being the liberal candidate, he would've stood a chance with those demographics. But they obviously didn't make her win. Non traditional voters were the key factor in this one. Trump was never going to win any of those demographics. But he could've potentially also not done as well against his target demographic had Sanders been the nominee.

Im not trying to be the buyer's remorse guy. I'm looking forward, not backward. But damn dude, you have to stop with the whole demonization of someone who uses the word "Sanders." There's valid points to be made here.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i post things here that i don't post/say in real life because i'm pleasant and nice in real life.

Re: the article

If half of Jill Stein's voters didn't vote, and a third of Johnson voters didn't vote, and two thirds of the remaining Gary Johnson voters voted for Trump, she would've still lost Florida.

This is such a weak argument based upon black-and-white assumption. It holds more weight in 2000 I suppose, but this is such a stretch.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by BVS

I would have stayed home. And there are many others like me, add to that those center people that would have been driven to vote against the idea of 'Socialism'. Plus the demographics she fell short on, were the same Sanders failed, so I'm not sure how one can make such a sure statement.

I'd have voted for Sanders only because of his opponent.

Many others would have stayed home, much like you stated.

We'll never know, cause it never happened.

This was a steam train barreling towards us. The last ditch desperation of rural and older white America, trying to hold on to the "good ole days."

[deep]

N H Senate at .01 per cent probably deserves a recount
So it looks like Trump won by just 2 states, FL and 1 more and lost the popular vote.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

I'd have voted for Sanders only because of his opponent.

Many others would have stayed home, much like you stated.

We'll never know, cause it never happened.

This was a steam train barreling towards us. The last ditch desperation of rural and older white America, trying to hold on to the "good ole days."

i agree. i can accept the theory that Sanders may have done better, because he felt more like a movement, albeit a movement amongst notoriously unreliable voters.

however, i actually thought, and still think, that HRC would actually have made a better president than Bernie Sanders. for a lot of reasons.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

I am retiring from Interference.

Because you can't accept the fact that not EVERYONE in the party is as gaga as you about Sanders? I also would have had a hard time voting for him. You don't need to leave because we don't agree on a nominee.

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

I'd have voted for Sanders only because of his opponent.

Many others would have stayed home, much like you stated.

We'll never know, cause it never happened.

This was a steam train barreling towards us. The last ditch desperation of rural and older white America, trying to hold on to the "good ole days."

This is my opinion on the subject as well.

[deep]

Stock Market - Trump era, day 1, all time high

[anitram]

We don't know, can't know and will never know whether Bernie Sanders would have done better. He would have been a riskier candidate who maybe carried greater reward but nobody can know that.

More important are the lessons for the party going forward. The Tim Kaines and Chuck Schumers and Steny Hoyers, if they're the standard bearers then we'll know nothing has registered at all.

Is Kanye West still running in 20/20?

[deep]

I hope so.

[gump]

Sanders always reminded me of some Latin American populists, which I tend to really detest coming from that region. That said, I'm not sure "socialism" would have been a big flaw in an election where the winner was explicitly tied to Russia.

In hindsight, Biden would have possibly been the best nominee to keep the blue collar defection in check while rallying the minorities and other traditional constituencies.

But here's the thing about populism: it's fucking hard to stop it.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by bono_212

Because you can't accept the fact that not EVERYONE in the party is as gaga as you about Sanders? I also would have had a hard time voting for him. You don't need to leave because we don't agree on a nominee.

I'm going to try not to directly speak for Peef, but it's my understanding that his frustration comes from the fact that he was entirely reserved and allowed for the system to work itself out. He wasn't "Gaga" about Sanders. I recall him being frustrated over not being allowed to be between Sanders and Clinton, because the instant "Bernie Bro" discrediting label got stuck on anyone who supported Sanders. I don't know if this is what he actually feels, but I certainly felt this way.

So it's absurd that when the election is the "lesser of two negatives," but one of them is legitimately a fucking joke, anyone would say "I wouldn't have voted." You're telling me you would've been content with not playing ball in Trump v Sanders? Did I miss the part where Sanders was a sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman? Isn't that a big reason as to why we all had to unite against him, regardless of our perceptions of Clinton?

[Irvine511]

had Sanders been on the ticket i would have voted for him in a heartbeat.

because i don't put my own personal vanity above the lives of others.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I'm going to try not to directly speak for Peef, but it's my understanding that his frustration comes from the fact that he was entirely reserved and allowed for the system to work itself out. He wasn't "Gaga" about Sanders. I recall him being frustrated over not being allowed to be between Sanders and Clinton, because the instant "Bernie Bro" discrediting label got stuck on anyone who supported Sanders. I don't know if this is what he actually feels, but I certainly felt this way.

So it's absurd that when the election is the "lesser of two negatives," but one of them is legitimately a fucking joke, anyone would say "I wouldn't have voted." You're telling me you would've been content with not playing ball in Trump v Sanders? Did I miss the part where Sanders was a sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman? Isn't that a big reason as to why we all had to unite against him, regardless of our perceptions of Clinton?

"Had a hard time voting for him". Didn't say I wouldn't do it. There were many people who didn't do the same for Hillary against a "sexual predator racist xenophobic womanizing incestuous pig conman".

And I get that Peef may have been frustrated, but in the single moment that he said he's leaving Interference, THAT was the post that set him off, BVS not agreeing with him. Hence my response.

It goes against EVERYTHING I believe and stand for to vote for someone I don't agree with, but I would've done it against Trump, had it been Bernie or Hillary. Because it was the right thing to do, regardless of how I felt about Bernie. But I still would've been morally conflicted about it.

[LemonMelon]

I can't blame someone in a comfortably blue state like California, Maryland or New York for staying home if they don't feel strongly about the candidates. I wrote in Bernie because I knew my vote wouldn't have an impact (it didn't) and he was a candidate I believed in. That's what the spot is there for. That said, if I were a citizen of Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, wherever, you can trust that I would set myself aside for the greater good and vote for the candidate I felt would cause less harm to others.

Thinking about it now, I've taken solace in Hillary winning the popular vote and perhaps I would have felt better had I contributed to that figure. I don't know.

Fuck the electoral college, seriously.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by bono_212

And I get that Peef may have been frustrated, but in the single moment that he said he's leaving Interference, THAT was the post that set him off, BVS not agreeing with him. Hence my response.

I can only imagine he was being mildly and bitterly sarcastic. Time will tell?

Originally Posted by bono_212

It goes against EVERYTHING I believe and stand for to vote for someone I don't agree with, but I would've done it against Trump, had it been Bernie or Hillary. Because it was the right thing to do, regardless of how I felt about Bernie. But I still would've been morally conflicted about it.

Yes and I'm sure you've noticed I share the same sentiment about not voting for someone I don't agree with. In fact, that's led to many philosophical debates where I support third party voting, since I don't feel like anyone is obliged to give their vote to someone. Much like you, I think Trump is an exceptional case, where it's selfish to not support his opponent because he's an asshole and a con. Sorry for misinterpreting your first post.