najeena
War Child
I never thought I'd see the day when we'd consider having to impose the draft to force our young people into combat again. How many of us know kids who would have to go, should this take place? Are your children safe?
the draft
- Thread starter najeena
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
When did I ever thing I'd be rooting for Tom DeLay?
The draft would be a huge mistake. Maybe we should start realistically looking at this whole "war on terrorism." Right now, the whole scope of it is completely unrealistic.Melon
BAW
The Flower
Both of my sons (19 and almost 17) would eligible if there was a draft...but I don't think its going to happen. I'm totally against it and I would do everything in my power to keep them from being forced into the "war on terror"
RockNRollDawgie
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Draft for a war based on lies...oil interests, false intelligence, Halliburton, greed, etc. 
I agree; it ain't gonna happen. Anti-war protests would be
rampant, if that idiot Bush started a draft.
I agree; it ain't gonna happen. Anti-war protests would be
rampant, if that idiot Bush started a draft.
Last edited:
RockNRollDawgie said:Draft for a war based on lies...oil interests, false intelligence, Halliburton, greed, etc.
I agree; it ain't gonna happen. Anti-war protests would be
rampant, if that idiot Bush started a draft.
No one lied, the oil is in everyone's interest, the war was based on Saddam's failure to Verifiably Disarm of all WMD in compliance with United Nations resolutions and Ceacefire Agreement, Halliburton is helping to rebuild Iraq and make life better for the Iraqi people. The people that benefit most from the removal of Saddam are the Iraqi people.
Just because a single Senator Chuck Hagal is considering bringing back the draft does not mean its being seriously consider by the US government.
The United States has no need for a military draft for several reasons.
#1 The military right now has the highest levels of recruiting success and retention.
#2 The all volunteer military was a success in the Cold War when man power needs were much greater than they are today.
#3 The current all volunteer military is about half of what it was in 1989. If the military needs to be expanded, the all volunteer military can be expanded all the way up to Cold War levels if need be.
#4 It would have been technically possible to fight the Korean and Vietnam Wars without a draft if the National Guard and Reserves had been fully used. Only wars on the scale of World War II might make the draft a necessity.
#5 The All Volunteer military has helped to produce the best military this country and the world has ever seen.
#6 Military's that fill out their manning totals through conscription are typically of less quality than military's that rely exclusively on volunteer's.
The United States has no need for a military draft for several reasons.
#1 The military right now has the highest levels of recruiting success and retention.
#2 The all volunteer military was a success in the Cold War when man power needs were much greater than they are today.
#3 The current all volunteer military is about half of what it was in 1989. If the military needs to be expanded, the all volunteer military can be expanded all the way up to Cold War levels if need be.
#4 It would have been technically possible to fight the Korean and Vietnam Wars without a draft if the National Guard and Reserves had been fully used. Only wars on the scale of World War II might make the draft a necessity.
#5 The All Volunteer military has helped to produce the best military this country and the world has ever seen.
#6 Military's that fill out their manning totals through conscription are typically of less quality than military's that rely exclusively on volunteer's.
I have a nephew who is 18 and two more in their early 20's. A neighbor's son joined last fall but thankfully is in Germany for now. I do not think what is going on now is worth their lives, no, or any of the others being killed over there every day. If the draft started I'd hope they would run! Now if we were attacked here I'd say we'd all be out there fighting. But I am not for wasting a generation of young men (and women, like the 20 year old girl from Wisconsin) for this mess now. I am worried, though, if this mess gets much worse, they might start it. But I think there will be a BIG backlash like with Viet Nam if they do.
I am worried that with all the news of heavy fighting, recruits will be harder to come by. Many of those who are dying over there joined because there were no jobs in their hometown, or to get money for college. I am surprised that my nephew says he knows guys who do actually want to go and plan to sign up! I am constantly amazed at the young soldiers on TV who have been over there for ages, some have been wounded, but they honestly believe in what they are doing and most of them don't regret it. As long as we have people with that attitude, the current system will work out fine. But don't ask the lives of those who have other plans and don't want to go. I am not a person who reallly hates Bush, but I don't consider the lives being lost over there now 'dying for your country.' Most of them are dying in ambushes and terrorist attacks, not even in battle. It is an absolute waste.
I am worried that with all the news of heavy fighting, recruits will be harder to come by. Many of those who are dying over there joined because there were no jobs in their hometown, or to get money for college. I am surprised that my nephew says he knows guys who do actually want to go and plan to sign up! I am constantly amazed at the young soldiers on TV who have been over there for ages, some have been wounded, but they honestly believe in what they are doing and most of them don't regret it. As long as we have people with that attitude, the current system will work out fine. But don't ask the lives of those who have other plans and don't want to go. I am not a person who reallly hates Bush, but I don't consider the lives being lost over there now 'dying for your country.'
Most of them are dying in ambushes and terrorist attacks, not even in battle. It is an absolute waste.
Last edited:
Ft. Worth Frog
Acrobat
It is interesting that liberals like Charles Rangel want the draft re-installed; his reasoning is that this would force the army to draw from all sectors of the country instead of the supposedly all minorty army that there is. However, I think one would find that most soldiers on the front line are not minorities but Southerners. Remember, because one is in the service does not mean that they are in the line of fire. There are plenty of desk jobs needed in the miltary.
It is also interesting that left wing liberals through history have been the ones calling for levee en masse (universal conscription). European socialists in the 19th century felt that this would be a much more democratic way of fighting. It was only with the French Revolution that this method was introduced; previously, armies were not quite as large and war not as bloody.
It is also interesting that left wing liberals through history have been the ones calling for levee en masse (universal conscription). European socialists in the 19th century felt that this would be a much more democratic way of fighting. It was only with the French Revolution that this method was introduced; previously, armies were not quite as large and war not as bloody.
Seabird
War Child
I would too.
I have a son who will be 18 later this year. He is not the soldier type at all. He's a musician and a poet and very passive, not athletic, fears confrontation. He's an example that not every person can be turned into a soldier and if someone is not cut out for it they will end up shot anyway. I'm not for forcing anyone to serve in the military against their will. I really don't think anyone would risk such a drastic measure politically at this point. I hope not. I worry for the ones who are over there and wish them all home safely.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
I'm against a draft also. It's weird, some Democrats are proposing a draft and the Republicans are dead-set against it. It's getting tough to recognize the parties!
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
We would need a major cultural shift to make a draft a possibility. Currently, we are far too self-centered. Take a look at Americorps or the Peace Corps - its not like they are overwhelmed with volunteers.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Yes, I am shocked that anyone considers this a "vote-getter". It looks like a vote-killer instead. Maybe they thought that it was a good post 9/11 issue. It's not.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
Actually, those who have proposed the draft use a "social justice" type argument
Seabird
War Child
Experts, how likely is this? My son, who graduates next year, is terrified. He says there's a thing on the congressional website that says it will start again next June, the same time he graduates. He says there will be no deferrments for college, and Canada will be forced to send back anyone found having fled to there. Is the old Saving Private Ryan thing still good? He is the last male in my husband's family line, if that matters.
I keep telling him the backlash against this would be so bad it could never happen. But he says it's already almost a done deal and they're going to spring it on us and all the flag wavers will support it. I don't. What do you say?
I keep telling him the backlash against this would be so bad it could never happen. But he says it's already almost a done deal and they're going to spring it on us and all the flag wavers will support it. I don't. What do you say?
meegannie
Blue Crack Addict
Only Congress can authorize a reinstatment of the draft, and this is really only a perioid of national service (rather than a draft for a specific military action), which many countries do, including (I think) Germany, Sweden, Norway, Austria, Finland, Greece, and Russia (though I still don't agree with it!). I seriously doubt either bill will come out of committee since they've been sitting there for over a year with no hearings or markups. There are only 14 cosponsors on the House bill (though one was added recently, which is odd....then again maybe her office just has a really overzealous military LA who's signing her onto bills that have been sitting around for a while 
).
Here are some quotes from news services as well:
"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is adamant that he will not ask Congress to authorize a draft, and officials at the Selective Service System, the independent federal agency that would organize any conscription, stress that the possibility of a so-called "special skills draft" is remote."
"Congress, which would have to authorize a draft, has shown no interest in taking such a step.
Kathleen Long, a spokeswoman for Sen. Carl Levin, the senior Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said a draft has little support among lawmakers."
"On Capitol Hill, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., has introduced a bill that would reinstate the draft. The legislation has minimal support with only 13 House lawmakers signing on as co-sponsors. A corresponding bill in the Senate introduced by Sen. Fritz Hollings, the outgoing South Carolina Democrat, has no co-sponsors."
"Two options for the conscientious objector are allowed under the Military Selective Service Act.
1 . The term ?noncombatant training? refers to any training unrelated to the study, use or handling of arms or weapons. ?Noncombatant service? is performed in a unit of the armed forces, usually in the medical corps or in some other assignment not requiring the bearing of arms.
2. Instead of actual enlistment into the armed forces, work may be assigned by the Federal, state or local government or by a non-profit organization working for the ?maintenance of the national health, safety or interest,? including related educational and scientific activities. In the past, such work has included the Peace Corps, VISTA, the teaching trades, and work in social service agencies or community development projects. Such assignments may be available if the draft is activated.
The law does not protect the ?selective objector? or the noncooperating resister to draft registration or induction."
).Here are some quotes from news services as well:
"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is adamant that he will not ask Congress to authorize a draft, and officials at the Selective Service System, the independent federal agency that would organize any conscription, stress that the possibility of a so-called "special skills draft" is remote."
"Congress, which would have to authorize a draft, has shown no interest in taking such a step.
Kathleen Long, a spokeswoman for Sen. Carl Levin, the senior Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said a draft has little support among lawmakers."
"On Capitol Hill, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., has introduced a bill that would reinstate the draft. The legislation has minimal support with only 13 House lawmakers signing on as co-sponsors. A corresponding bill in the Senate introduced by Sen. Fritz Hollings, the outgoing South Carolina Democrat, has no co-sponsors."
"Two options for the conscientious objector are allowed under the Military Selective Service Act.
1 . The term ?noncombatant training? refers to any training unrelated to the study, use or handling of arms or weapons. ?Noncombatant service? is performed in a unit of the armed forces, usually in the medical corps or in some other assignment not requiring the bearing of arms.
2. Instead of actual enlistment into the armed forces, work may be assigned by the Federal, state or local government or by a non-profit organization working for the ?maintenance of the national health, safety or interest,? including related educational and scientific activities. In the past, such work has included the Peace Corps, VISTA, the teaching trades, and work in social service agencies or community development projects. Such assignments may be available if the draft is activated.
The law does not protect the ?selective objector? or the noncooperating resister to draft registration or induction."
meegannie
Blue Crack Addict
Seabird
War Child
Thank you for the information!
Seabird
War Child
The thing is, how do you define your country 'needing' you? Do you think you should be forced to fight and die for questionable causes you might not support, that most of the world is against, that really have nothing to do with America at all, just because 'your country' tells you to? If this country were invaded by someone we would all fight to defend our homes, but I can understand people not wanting to potentially lose their lives for things like Vietnam and the current situation in Iraq. It is also true that not every person is they type who would be compatible with military service or battle and no one should be forced to go against their will. My son is not the kind of person who would make any kind of a soldier, and what good does it do anyone to send a person like that to their certain death when there is some other good they could do at home?
Last edited:
Seabird said:
#1 There are actually people in this country who are opposed to all violence and would not defend their own homes if attacked.
#2 Being drafted or serving does not mean a person is being sent to a "certain death". You are certainly taking on a risk for your country.
#3 The All Volunteer military would be expanded before a draft was brought back. The current all volunteer military force is half in size of the all volunteer military force that fought the first Gulf War. It is possible that several hundred thousand troops will be added to the all Volunteer military. Still, even if the military does add these troops, they are not going back to the levels seen in 1990.
#4 As the difficult process of development in Iraq continues, more Iraqi's will become trained as policeman and soldiers, there by reducing the burden placed on Coalition forces. Once elections happen and the Iraqi forces are better able to handle the insurgents, US and coalition forces will be able to gradually start withdrawing.
The draft is not comming back. There is simply no chance of it. There are only a handful of congressman out of hundreds who support it. The military does not want to see the draft. They would like more money to expand the all volunteer military though.
Seabird
War Child
How can you expand the all volunteer force without conscripting new volunteers?
If anyone would not even defend their own home, they're going to see violence anyway, their own demise. Ever see The Blue and The Gray, where John was the son who would not take sides and would not bear arms, but in the end when his parent's home was being attacked, he did pick up a gun. That's how I feel, that's what I think most of us would do, even pacifists.
If anyone would not even defend their own home, they're going to see violence anyway, their own demise. Ever see The Blue and The Gray, where John was the son who would not take sides and would not bear arms, but in the end when his parent's home was being attacked, he did pick up a gun. That's how I feel, that's what I think most of us would do, even pacifists.
Seabird said:
#1 The All Volunteer force is just that, it is made up of all volunteers. One does not conscript or draft someone that has already volunteered for service. You get more volunteers, through more advertizing, recruiting, increasing pay and benefits etc.
The Active duty All Volunteer military had 2.2 million members in 1990. After the Cold War and First Gulf War, the active military was reduced to 1.4 million over a number of years in the 1990s. The all Volunteer military has been increased and decreased several times over the past 30 years in conjunction with the needs of the country. The system has worked well and has produced the greatest military the United States has ever fielded.
#2 True Pacifist do not use any violence at all and avoid conflict at all cost. The Amish in Pennsylvania have practiced this for centurys among several other things.
Also, many would say waiting until your own home is on fire to actually act is simply acting to late. This is why ever since World War II, the United States and many of its Allies have been heavily engaged worldwide in taking on problems before they develop into problems or situations that are much worse.
If the Allies had acted against Germany in the 1930s as Hitler came to power, World War II in Europe could have been prevented.
Similar threads
