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Old 02-19-2008, 11:35 PM   #121
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Originally posted by 2861U2
How long is Obama going to talk? It's going on 40 minutes.


methinks you're going to have to get used to lots and lots of speeches by Obama ... until 2016.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:50 PM   #122
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clueless Obama supporter....

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Old 02-20-2008, 02:11 PM   #123
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Originally posted by MaxFisher
clueless Obama supporter....

Perfect example of the typical Obama supporter.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:12 PM   #124
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Perfect example of the typical Obama supporter.


you must know so many.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:15 PM   #125
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Perfect example of the typical Obama supporter.
Please.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:19 PM   #126
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Originally posted by Irvine511




you must know so many.
Are you kidding? I'm surrounded by them.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:19 PM   #127
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No, that guy was just ill prepared, and was embarassing to watch as an Obama supporter.

What you don't see in that video is Keith Olbermann asking Chris, "What has the United States Senate accomplished in the last 7 years?"

Silence.

Plus, who's to say his time in the US senate is the ONLY experience that should matter? He's done great work fighting payday lenders, his community organizing shows great skill in managing and bringing groups together successfully, plus in the US Senate he actually pushed through Lobbying reform. No, it wasn't perfect, but it's a greater step than anyone else has taken.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:30 PM   #128
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Perfect example of the typical Obama supporter.
These statements make you lose credibility.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:45 PM   #129
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These statements make you lose credibility.
How? Is it not true?

I hear people everyday say they are supporting Obama, and they can't explain why. I remember watching an Obama supporter on Fox News in one of Frank Luntz's focus groups, and he was asked what Obama has accomplished, and he said "He's a good speaker." You could hear Sean Hannity sighing in the background, as was I.
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:54 PM   #130
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Correct, it's not true.

Sure, there are idiots out there. Just as there are idiots for McCain.

I'm behind Obama because his political positions are better than McCain's and better than Clinton's. Plain and simple.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:56 PM   #131
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Washington Post

The Obama Delusion

By Robert J. Samuelson
Wednesday, February 20, 2008; A17

It's hard not to be dazzled by Barack Obama. At the 2004 Democratic convention, he visited with Newsweek reporters and editors, including me. I came away deeply impressed by his intelligence, his forceful language and his apparent willingness to take positions that seemed to rise above narrow partisanship. Obama has become the Democratic presidential front-runner precisely because countless millions have formed a similar opinion. It is, I now think, mistaken.

As a journalist, I harbor serious doubt about each of the most likely nominees. But with Sens. Hillary Clinton and John McCain, I feel that I'm dealing with known quantities. They've been in the public arena for years; their views, values and temperaments have received enormous scrutiny. By contrast, newcomer Obama is largely a stage presence defined mostly by his powerful rhetoric. The trouble, at least for me, is the huge and deceptive gap between his captivating oratory and his actual views.

The subtext of Obama's campaign is that his own life narrative -- to become the first African American president, a huge milestone in the nation's journey from slavery -- can serve as a metaphor for other political stalemates. Great impasses can be broken with sufficient goodwill, intelligence and energy. "It's not about rich versus poor; young versus old; and it is not about black versus white," he says. Along with millions of others, I find this a powerful appeal.

But on inspection, the metaphor is a mirage. Repudiating racism is not a magic cure-all for the nation's ills. The task requires independent ideas, and Obama has few. If you examine his agenda, it is completely ordinary, highly partisan, not candid and mostly unresponsive to many pressing national problems.

By Obama's own moral standards, Obama fails. Americans "are tired of hearing promises made and 10-point plans proposed in the heat of a campaign only to have nothing change," he recently said. Shortly thereafter he outlined an economic plan of at least 12 points that, among other things, would:

• Provide a $1,000 tax cut for most two-earner families ($500 for singles).

• Create a $4,000 refundable tuition tax credit for every year of college.

• Expand the child-care tax credit for people earning less than $50,000 and "double spending on quality after-school programs."

• Enact an "energy plan" that would invest $150 billion in 10 years to create a "green energy sector."

Whatever one thinks of these ideas, they're standard goody-bag politics: something for everyone. They're so similar to many Clinton proposals that her campaign put out a news release accusing Obama of plagiarizing. With existing budget deficits and the costs of Obama's "universal health plan," the odds of enacting his full package are slim.

A favorite Obama line is that he will tell "the American people not just what they want to hear but what we need to know." Well, he hasn't so far. Consider the retiring baby boomers. A truth-telling Obama might say: "Spending for retirees -- mainly Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- is already nearly half the federal budget. Unless we curb these rising costs, we will crush our children with higher taxes. Reflecting longer life expectancies, we should gradually raise the eligibility ages for these programs and trim benefits for wealthier retirees. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame for inaction. Waiting longer will only worsen the problem."

Instead, Obama pledges not to raise the retirement age and to "protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries." This isn't "change"; it's sanctification of the status quo. He would also exempt all retirees making less than $50,000 annually from income tax. By his math, that would provide average tax relief of $1,400 to 7 million retirees -- shifting more of the tax burden onto younger workers. Obama's main proposal for Social Security is to raise the payroll tax beyond the present $102,000 ceiling.

Political candidates routinely indulge in exaggeration, pandering, inconsistency and self-serving obscuration. Clinton and McCain do. The reason for holding Obama to a higher standard is that it's his standard and also his campaign's central theme. He has run on the vague promise of "change," but on issue after issue -- immigration, the economy, global warming -- he has offered boilerplate policies that evade the underlying causes of the stalemates. These issues remain contentious because they involve real conflicts or differences of opinion.

The contrast between his broad rhetoric and his narrow agenda is stark, and yet the media -- preoccupied with the political "horse race" -- have treated his invocation of "change" as a serious idea rather than a shallow campaign slogan. He seems to have hypnotized much of the media and the public with his eloquence and the symbolism of his life story. The result is a mass delusion that Obama is forthrightly engaging the nation's major problems when, so far, he isn't.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:00 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
you must know so many.
can you list his legislative accomplishments while in the U S Senate?
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:07 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


These statements make you lose credibility.
I agree and unfortunately he's slowly been chipping away at himself that he doesn't have much more to lose.

If you would have asked anyone what Bush accomplished before his Presidency the response would have been similar except not because of a lack of time to have a lot on his resume, but because he failed at everything he touched. So I have to laugh at conservatives who are suddenly so concerned about accomplishments.

McCain has accomplished to turn his back on many of the ideals he's fought against the past 8 years of his career... go McCain
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:09 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


can you list his legislative accomplishments while in the U S Senate?


Quote:
Originally posted by deep


can you list his legislative accomplishments while in the U S Senate?


*The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law)
*The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law)
*The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, (passed by the Senate)
*The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law)
*The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)
and if you look at his record in the IL state senate, he sponsored more than 780 bills, of which 280 were signed into law.

and he was always against Iraq.

i also don't think that having prolific legislation is necessarily an indicator of being a worthy presidential candidate. just look at Ted Kennedy.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:10 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
How? Is it not true?

I hear people everyday say they are supporting Obama, and they can't explain why. I remember watching an Obama supporter on Fox News in one of Frank Luntz's focus groups, and he was asked what Obama has accomplished, and he said "He's a good speaker." You could hear Sean Hannity sighing in the background, as was I.
you are on to something here

and that guy in the youtube video is hardly an idiot

he is an elected official in Texas, a supporter that the Obama camp is happy yo have

Obama's resume' is incredibly thin

The last article posted
"The Obama Delusion"
is worth reading.

People are caught up in all this Obama mania
and most likely will end up with a nominee
that the old broken down war horse McCain, can best in an electoral college contest.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:14 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



*The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law)
*The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law)
*The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, (passed by the Senate)
*The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law)
*The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee)
and if you look at his record in the IL state senate, he sponsored more than 780 bills, of which 280 were signed into law.

and he was always against Iraq.

i also don't think that having prolific legislation is necessarily an indicator of being a worthy presidential candidate. just look at Ted Kennedy.
that little laundry list amounts to not much of anything


and as for always being against the Iraq War
that is a negative for him

if he was in the Senate there is a case to be made - that he would have voted for it, regardless of what he said.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:14 PM   #137
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Originally posted by deep

People are caught up in all this Obama mania
and most likely will end up with a nominee
that the old broken down war horse McCain, can best in an electoral college contest.


i can accept the points in the Obama Delusion.

i cannot accept the contention that Hillary Clinton would be a better candidate to win the election.

this race is going to be about the independents. and we know what they think of her.

and let's keep in mind -- Obama has nearly defeated the Clinton machine. that's something the Republicans have never been able to do.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:15 PM   #138
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Who has read one or both of his books? I just got Dreams From My Father yesterday, I'm embarrassed to admit I haven't read either before now. I would imagine Audacity Of Hope contains more of his political ideas and accomplishments.

I will be depressed if McCain is elected, that I know for sure. I can't imagine it will happen but stranger things have happened.
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:16 PM   #139
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Originally posted by deep


that little laundry list amounts to not much of anything



that's a Sting-like dismissal without anything to back it up.

could you point to the junior senator from New York having a more luminous Senatorial resume?
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:18 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

and let's keep in mind -- Obama has nearly defeated the Clinton machine. that's something the Republicans have never been able to do.
I am aware of the popular votes, too

it would be interesting if we only looked at the Blue States and the BATTLE GROUND states.


if Obama gets 80 per cent of the votes in South Carolina, Utah and all the small states that will surely vote GOP

that can carry him to the nomination

bot all that support in Democratic primaries in Red states means nothing in November
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