The Cowards Stoop Lower

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Eirinn said:
Knowing the way their warped minds and propaganda work, it's more like 300 actually. Russian leaders: tzars, communist party leaders, presidents, have always been arrogant and disrespectful towards the rest of the nation.
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Excuse me,but surely Russia's not the only place where propaganda affects people who don't want to think or ask questions.Moreover,your passage about tzars,party leaders and presidents is a classic example of propaganda itself,need I say why? Most of the facts you mention are sad and disquieting truth but the tone of your messages makes me feel like you're drawn by some unexplainable Russia hate,not by empathy.I doubt you've ever been to Russia to make some of your conclusions but even if you have - well, everyone sees what they want/are able to see.

Having said that,I'm deeply touched by the fact that people here show their concern for this horrible,tragic event ...
 
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Aine said:
Excuse me,but surely Russia's not the only place where propaganda affects people who don't want to think or ask questions.Moreover,your passage about tzars,party leaders and presidents is a classic example of propaganda itself,need I say why? Most of the facts you mention are sad and disquieting truth but the tone of your messages makes me feel like you're drawn by some unexplainable Russia hate,not by empathy.I doubt you've ever been to Russia to make some of your conclusions but even if you have - well, everyone sees what they want/are able to see.
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:up: Exactly. I have other things to say about this, but I honestly don't want to make a thread about such a tragedy into a political debate.

(BTW, I don't remember seeing you post here before, so welcome to FYM.)
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
10 of the 20 hostage takers were arab missionaries... how many kids have to die before the world will finally put partisanship aside and see that islamic terrorism is the absolute 100% biggest problem facing our world today. god help us
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Ok let's say partisanship is put aside, then what?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Ok let's say partisanship is put aside, then what?
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then we go after these people where ever they are, be they in chechneya, iraq, palestine, afgahnistan or brooklyn... how many more innocents need to be slaughtered until the world as a whole rises up and says enough is enough. we can't just attack these people after we're attacked... we need to hunt them down and get rid of them BEFORE they blow up a bus, bring down a skyscraper, or murder hundreds of children. i'm sorry, but the wait and respond tactic just doesn't work for me.
 
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Headache in a Suitcase said:


then we go after these people where ever they are, be they in chechneya, iraq, palestine, afgahnistan or brooklyn... how many more innocents need to be slaughtered until the world as a whole rises up and says enough is enough. we can't just attack these people after we're attacked... we need to hunt them down and get rid of them BEFORE they blow up a bus, bring down a skyscraper, or murder hundreds of children. i'm sorry, but the wait and respond tactic just doesn't work for me.
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And how many innocents do we kill in the way before we realize this isn't the way. This would be a great idea if terrorist wore uniforms or worked by conventional means but they don't. So we go and bomb villages to find out later, woops wrong target. It's like using a flamethrower to kill a cockroach.

This doesn't sound very "drop the partisan act" it sounds more like democrats wise up and follow Bush's plan.

I don't agree with wait till we're attacked either. I think this war will have to involve major intelligence overhauls and secret operative attacks. Bombing cities will just attract more terrorist from all around, i.e. Iraq.
 
Do people here even realize the whole point of covert intelligence operations is that they are secret!

Bush has initiated an overhaul in the way that the intelligence services operate and this is an ongoing restructuring, there have been some very important arrests tied in to this (Hambali, Khalid Sheik Mohammed etc.). Just because you see Iraq and Afghanistan plastered over the news every evening does not mean that they make up 100% of the actions of the WoT. There is a very very significant component of intelligence which crafts these operations which is not seen by most civilians.
 
One observation, those terrorists murdered hundereds of children, but in their minds they are just infidels, like the kafir. The lives of the infidel are worthless and we must never forget it - there is no negotiation with people who only desire death and destruction.

If you study most groups that use violence for "liberation" they generally avoid wholesale slaughter, the exception to the rule are Islamic terrorists - all over the world these extremists kill anybody who stands in their way Men, Women and Children - it makes no difference. There is a very dangerous school of thought within Islam that encourages this violence and it must be exposed and annihilated. I repeat now what I have said before, you cannot make peace with men who do not understand the very concept of it.

Spetznaz (Russian SF) Soldier with released hostage.
i4_132169_556.jpg


Hostages after the event.
3plachet_ap.jpg


Moving out from school.
11.jpg

43krest-_ap.jpg


There are more pictures here here I do however say that there are some bleeding children and a terrorist lying on the pavement after having being caught and beaten (but he is still alive). Look at the images, don't look away and never forget what these terrorists represent.
 
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BABIES?? :sad: :mad: :rant: Those sick :censored: Little kids, babies, anybody it's terrible, but what a cruel creep would target little ones, and shoot them in the back as they run? This is the worst, most horrible thing anyone could do. I am so upset! Whatever action taken against those terrorists will not be too bad for them! :mad:

Did they catch the ones who fled into the town? I hope they got them all!
 
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A_Wanderer said:
Spetznaz (Russian SF) Soldier with released hostage.
i4_132169_556.jpg
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:sad: This is a picture worth a thousand words.

These terrorists...how do they think anyone will be on their side after they attack children? Taking over a government building, I could understand (never condone, but understand). But a school?! Yeah, those children are such a huge threat to your cause. :mad:

They are not noble fighters for a cause. They are not political dissidents. They are wicked, evil creeps, killing because they like to kill. May the whole lot of them rot in Hell. :angry:
 
Welcome back U2Kitten, haven't seen you around in quite a while :wave:

In regards to the rotting in hell, I am quite sure that the FSB will make them rot in a dungeon until they wish they were rotting in hell - and guess what else, they wont "torture" them with chocolate sauce.
 
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Just a little tip for those that complained about me saying that Chechen terrorism is tied up with the WoT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm
Mr Aslakhanov said 20 hostage-takers had died in exchanges of fire with troops, at least nine of them Arabs.
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If this pans out and there were Arab terrorists involved in this slaughter then it is quite clear that whereever you have nationalist struggles and Islam extremist terrorists will fill the void and transform it to become part of their own violence. I am not saying that all Chechen Muslims are terrorists, however some surely are, I am saying that all these groups are connected and the War on Terror, they represent a persistent threat to global security and must be dealt with. From Gaza to Chechnya Islamist Terrorism against innocent people continues, it must be stopped permenantly or we will pay the price with innocent blood.
 
This wasn't a planned assault, to be sure, so you can't place blame for this on the Russian Special Forces. As someone else said, some of the children apparently tried to run and were shot at. Given the choice between letting the terrorists shoot children and lose the planned aspect of the assault, or saving the lives of the children, I think we all know what we would do.

The Russian Spetznaz (cause that's probably what they were) did a damn good job considering the circumstances. A huge school, dozens of terrorists and hundreds of hostages, combined with an unplanned assault is almost guaranteed to go horribly wrong. The Spetznaz did what they could in the situation; most of the hostages were freed, unfortunately, many were not. I think the Russians handled this situation quite well given the circumstances. Considering that the terrorists had suicide belts strapped to them and had wired the whole school to go up, they did very well to prevent further casualties.

I know that sounds completely heartless, but don't get me wrong; this was a despicable, inhuman act and I hope Satan himself skullfucks them for eternity.

But the reality is that there could have been loads more people (children) killed. The actions of the Russian Special Forces prevented that. Don't knock them; they've learned their lesson since the theater in 2002.
 
A_Wanderer said:
Just a little tip for those that complained about me saying that Chechen terrorism is tied up with the WoT.
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You can use my name. I don't care. What I wrote was still correct.

What you wrote in this post was also correct--and I said the same thing. I never said there wasn't Islamic terrorism, I said it was more complex than that. That's still true.

I said I didn't believe they were connected to Al-Quada or Osama bin Laden. There's still no evidence for that, unless Al-Quada steps forward in the next few days and takes responsibility for this senseless and brutal attack.

Yes, so far it seems Arab men were involved--and it will be *extremely* interesting to see how this pans out, and who they are connected to. I wouldn't be surprised if it was just Chechens though. Given the country's location, there could be Arab citizens there. Russian territories are an interesting melting pot.

Sick, horrifying stuff. I am so angry with people who want to go "talk and understand the people behind these attacks" and see "how hurt and angry they must be." I have no sympathy for anyone who takes innocent lives for their "message." If you have a problem with a government, you attack the *government*--you hit the Pentagon, you hit the Kremlin. At least if you're going to take lives, you do what Michael Collins did and you hurt those who hurt you. You don't hit places where innocent, civilian people are going to work, school, whatever.
 
Okay, so you have around half of the terrorists in the building being Arab and another being Afro-American (suspicous much?). This looks like a joint AQ and Chechen operation, already a link has been drawn to an Arab field commander and financier Omar As-Seif (wahhabist who came to Chechnya to fight, helped to recruit children as homocide bombers and uses funds from sympathetic indivuals - such as Rich Saudies - to fund these terror operations). This is Islamic terrorism, unrelenting and unnapeasable - the Chechen people have suffered under Soviet and Russian actions for many decades but this wholesale slaughter is not justified and shouldn't be allowed to gather sympathy for their cause. They are working with the same enemies of civilization we face, it is all the same ball of wax. Islamofascism threatens us all - if they will do this to Russian children then what stops them trying it against Europeans or Americans? There is no reason to think that these operations are isolated incidents, when a tactic prooves successul it is picked up and used by others, homocide bombers, hijackings and beheaddings were started in one place and became widespread modus operanidi - there is no reason to think that these massive hostage taking operations will be any different.

They kill innocent kids, they hide behind their own kids when we respond. Forget root causes and cycle of violence PC bullshit - we are dealing with homocidal religious zelots who muder the innocent out of bloodlust; may they have the pleasure of a bullet to the stomach followed by days of interrorgation by the FSB before they are allowed to finally shuffle of their mortal coil.

When you have a school with hundreds and maybe over one thousand hostages and dozens of terrorists with a death wish there is no magic wand outcome - people would have died no matter what course of action was taken, negotiation and appeasement would only mean they would come back again to get more of their demands met.

The actions of the Spetznaz during the operation and afterwards hunting down the terrorists are ruthless, they get the job done and will not go about fighting a "sensitive" war on terror. They will be hunted down and eliminated. You do not want to be on the wrong side in a fight involving Spetznaz.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/5e97561c-fe0f-11d8-9dca-00000e2511c8.html
 
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First I have to comment on the title of the thread. I hear terrorists called 'cowards' all the time, and I don't know why. While they are evil and reprehensible in every way, coward is not the right label. Not many people have the guts to strap a suicide belt on and willingly blow themselves up. Terrorists are very bad people, but they are brave, so 'coward' is really a ridiculous label.
However, 'hostage taker', as the stories are calling them, is too. They are TERRORISTS. They are MURDERERS. They are evil bastards. Why not just say it.

I am in shock over all this, and very angry at the helplessness the victims and even the army must have felt. What a horrible, horrendous situation. The minds of the perpetrators have got to be the lowest form of pure evil on earth. Look at those black body bags. Listen to the testimony of the survivors. I can't accept subhuman, subanimal beings such as those terrorists even occupy our planet.

Now Putin is promising to get tougher on security and tougher on Chechnya. He said the world sees Russia as weak, and weak people are beaten. He even blames this on the fall of the USSR! He says the 'carefree life' is over in Russia. Nothing is too bad for the terrorists, but the Russian people do not deserve the hardships they are suffering and will be going through because of these attacks.
 
Let's not be naive about the terrorism - Arab mercenaries have been coming to Eastern Europe en masse ever since the Balkan conflict. Go deep into Bosnia and you will find dozens of them, they came over to fight in the civil war and many of them stayed. Some married local women, some stayed for the convenience of being in the middle of Europe. So yes, Al Qaeda and other similar groups have an established history of aligning themselves with local groups and providing "expertise" and so on. It's a seriously dangerous situation, and most of the West completely ignores what is going on right now in Bosnia. Watch for them to wake up in ten years or something when these terrorists start expanding their goals. It's a well known thing in the region, but seemingly nobody cares. Is ignorance bliss? Maybe.
 
They are cowards, they attack unarmed innocent people, they use children as human shields and have the "guts" to shoot innocent fucking kids in the back. I have a few links to pictures from within that building (these will not be published in any mainstream paper), if you genuinely feel that they are brave then perhaps you can take a look at what evil these cowards wrought upon over 300 (possibly 500) innocent people.

I am deeply offended by somebody callling them brave, they are no more brave than paedophiles.

Here are some bits from the Russian news.

- According to hostages, on the last day of the siege the terrorists did not allow anyone to use the bathroom.

- Some children ate plants that were in the building, because they were so hungry.

- Some children drank their urine, because of thirst.

- According to one of the hostages terrorists raped some older students.

- One hostage is saying that one of the terrorists was ?nice?, he sat quietly reading Koran and had a beard. ?When I asked him if we?ll be freed, he said: I don?t know guys, I am not in the know?.

- Terrorists had a cellphone and would regularly report to someone on the outside.

- Terrorists told children that the tap water was poisoned.

- When the hostages tried to escape as the storming took place they were shot in the back, one of the hostages claims that one of the terrorists who was shooting was smiling as the children were falling.
 
Oh I just checked in, its allright that they raped the older students, thats perfectly fine and checks out with Sharia (?Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you?..? Surah 4:24). You are allowed to take them as their property because they were captives, of course given the situation they had to forgo the formalities of having the government oversee the transaction of the property. Just wanted to clear that up, it wasn't really rape because it fitted with their belief system which is equally as valid as anybody elses - Women are property to be traded like cattle, it's not my place to complain because that would be culturally insensitive. Lets give a round of applause to the brave terrorists for upholding their religion in spite of being in a difficult situation.

/extreme seething sarcasm!
 
A_Wanderer said:
Oh I just checked in, its allright that they raped the older students, thats perfectly fine and checks out with Sharia (?Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (captives and slaves) whom your hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you?..? Surah 4:24). You are allowed to take them as their property because they were captives, of course given the situation they had to forgo the formalities of having the government oversee the transaction of the property. Just wanted to clear that up, it wasn't really rape because it fitted with their belief system which is equally as valid as anybody elses - Women are property to be traded like cattle, it's not my place to complain because that would be culturally insensitive. Lets give a round of applause to the brave terrorists for upholding their religion in spite of being in a difficult situation.

/extreme seething sarcasm!
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Where in the flying fuck did you get that out of my post??

:shocked: :scratch: :no:

Please read it again:

First I have to comment on the title of the thread. I hear terrorists called 'cowards' all the time, and I don't know why. While they are evil and reprehensible in every way, coward is not the right label. Not many people have the guts to strap a suicide belt on and willingly blow themselves up. Terrorists are very bad people, but they are brave, so 'coward' is really a ridiculous label.
However, 'hostage taker', as the stories are calling them, is too. They are TERRORISTS. They are MURDERERS. They are evil bastards. Why not just say it.

I am in shock over all this, and very angry at the helplessness the victims and even the army must have felt. What a horrible, horrendous situation. The minds of the perpetrators have got to be the lowest form of pure evil on earth. Look at those black body bags. Listen to the testimony of the survivors. I can't accept subhuman, subanimal beings such as those terrorists even occupy our planet.

Now Putin is promising to get tougher on security and tougher on Chechnya. He said the world sees Russia as weak, and weak people are beaten. He even blames this on the fall of the USSR! He says the 'carefree life' is over in Russia. Nothing is too bad for the terrorists, but the Russian people do not deserve the hardships they are suffering and will be going through because of these attacks.

I mentioned the survivor accounts, which you listed in your next post, and I even posted a link to a story that also told much of what you posted. I do not disagree with you these 'things' are the worst scum of the earth! All I'm saying is, if someone is willing to die, they are not a coward, because a coward is someone who is afraid of everything, so that is the wrong definition. I was not only referring to this but all suicide bombers, though I HATE, despise and am totally disgusted by all of them and their methods! All I'm saying is that coward is the wrong word. There are better ones, like thug, creep, asshole, terrorist, bastard, devil, demon, murderer, criminal, lowlife, etc. Get it?
 
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I do, but I stand by coward. They an be cowardly murderers, devils, demons, terrorists. Coward is apt - I apologise but my passions do sometimes get the better of me. These beings are cowards, there is cowardice in their actions.

Commiting suicide and killing a lot of innocent kids the way they did does not rank as brave on my scale - it ranks as cowardly. Thats all I am getting at.
 
Wild Angel said:
First I have to comment on the title of the thread. I hear terrorists called 'cowards' all the time, and I don't know why. While they are evil and reprehensible in every way, coward is not the right label. Not many people have the guts to strap a suicide belt on and willingly blow themselves up. Terrorists are very bad people, but they are brave, so 'coward' is really a ridiculous label.
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There's nothing brave about bullying innocent civilians who have not harmed you, especially children. The brave ones were the hostages who suffered through sheer hell, and the Russian forces who did the best they could in an impossible situation.

Is suicide bombing brave? It's bloody stupid. Killing oneself is one thing, but nobody has the right to take anyone else with them. If you think about it, it's the ultimate cowardice; not only do you take out innocent people, you don't have to face the wrath of the survivors.
 
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