The Conservative Victory Celebration thread!!!!!!!!!!

[Irvine511]

^ all good points, and i'm far from knowledgeable in this area, but i'm just trying to be a little bit lighthearted. (i sill find it amazing that Kerry's campaign could make anyone else's look good).

there's actually a whole lot to say, but this is a thread about Canadian elections, so i'll leave it as such.

but can we at least agree to be mutually upset at the face of the man who is going to be the representative to our respective countries to the international community?

 

[dandy]

i think i'm more worried about the fact that they're throwing stockwell day's name around for minister of foreign affairs.

 

[anitram]

but can we at least agree to be mutually upset at the face of the man who is going to be the representative to our respective countries to the international community?

Yours looks like an ape, ours looks like a Lego figurine. In the words of Jon Stewart: That's what happens when you don't let gay men do your hair.

 

[angelordevil]

i think i'm more worried about the fact that they're throwing stockwell day's name around for minister of foreign affairs.

What? You can't imagine him representing us around the world!

 

[Irvine511]

Yours looks like an ape, ours looks like a Lego figurine. In the words of Jon Stewart: That's what happens when you don't let gay men do your hair.

yes.

and notice the fashions worn by Conservative political wives.

they're horrific, as if the gays are designing out of spite!

 

[A_Wanderer]

The key to good conservative leadership is not about style and charisma, they are the marks of the empty vessel hucksters one generally finds on the left, no the key is blandness - such outright blandness that the public no longer dazzled by glamour begins to look at the issues and makes informed choices based upon their own self-interest.

 

[bonoman]

Wanderer: Trudeau was the best dressed most outgoing PM ever, his policies are something to be marvled at. Your generalization is untrue, and that goes for both sides of the specturm. But you probably have no clue who trudeau is so....

Antrim: I'd say your being fairly harsh as far as your assumption that Albertans, or a majority of AB, are that out of step with Canada. I hang out with people from all stripes here in Edmonton, I have an NDP candiadate as a close friend, a lesbian couple as friends, but I also have right leaning conservatives as friends as well.

I would tend to think that anywhere you go you would find the same dynamic. But the problem here in AB is that people are to loyal to a party, much like ON libs, they cannot see past the coruption for one, and they cannot look past the parties policy. Also people in AB hate the liberals, and I mean hate. Sometimes that gets translated into hating Easterners. I think that is very important and should not be overlooked. Apart from all the Conservatives that got elected in AB, look at the second place finishers. 8 NDP seconds, thats not bad. Also AB, suprisingly enough, had the biggest % of support for the GREENS!!!

With Harper now PM I'm very scared people in AB are going to say "i told you we'd get the power" That is the thought in AB, you seen Harper say the West wants in, the west is in! Unfortunatley this is going to fuel the right wingers in this prov.

I would hope if anything good comes of this election is that Alberta and the west will engage with the East. And i really hope that the East relizes all that AB gives to this great country apart from right wing politics, because we have, unfortunatley become a political power, but we are nipping at ON heals for the economic.

 

[diamond]

the world is tilting back to the center.

hooray.

db9

 

[BVS]

the world is tilting back to the center.

hooray.

db9

hmmm

I would venture to say the world as a whole is right of center.

 

[anitram]

Also AB, suprisingly enough, had the biggest % of support for the GREENS!!!

But that's because the Greens have a very conservative social platform behind all of their environmental issues. So I'm not surprised a conservative person might vote for them.

And you know my observations have nothing to do with individual people in Alberta, but the overall climate. It's kind of how you can have a very liberal university at UTexas-Austin but the remainder of the state is Bush country.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

It's an interesting question.

The bottom line is that if you asked Canadians what values define Canada, and how they feel about their nation, and if you asked people abroad what their perception of Canada is, the overwhelming response would be to describe the Canada of Tommy Douglas, Pearson and Trudeau. From the nationalized health care, to the peacekeeping missions, to a mid-Atlantic foreign policy to the Charter of Rights, a majority of people would agree and some of the only dissenters would be Albertans. And by this I don't mean every person there, but the current leadership and the Conservatives/Reformists out there. Their vision of Canada is not the vision the rest of the country or the world has. And that is the cold, hard truth that Alberta seems unable to grasp.

Whenever you hear a politician yammering on about taking away the rights of gay people to marry, or comparing abortion to executions or the holocaust or blaming immigrant populations for not voting for them, 9 times out of 10 you can bet it's a Conservative MP from Alberta. And that does not jive with the rest of Canada and goes over like a lead balloon in a country which is socially liberal. Alberta's politicians sound either bigotted or bellicose, and for all their whining about how they are excluded in the political process, they themselves publicly shit all over the Atlantic provinces and if they could rid themselves of Ontario and 40% of the people of this country and their votes they would in a heartbeat. So in addition to sounding bellicose, they are also hypocritical. Their offensive "culture of defeat" insults directed at the Maritimes is a perfect example of how they have no intention to unite this country at all, what they want is to govern the people with their Albertan policy, and the people of the rest of this country don't want that. Plain and simple.

Mulroney once said that the Conservatives in Canada have a major problem: that the Canadian people don't actually want a Conservative party at all. What they want are two mainstream liberal parties so that when one gets obnoxious, we don't feel badly voting for the other. I am not sure how accurate that is. But I really believe that Alberta and the West are two different things, because this sort of bellicose Texas-style politicking is absent in say, BC and Saskatchewan. So I am not sure how people in Alberta feel, but I can tell with 100% certainty that their (not all of them obviously) social views are not congruent with the social views of the rest of this country.

If Alberta's politicians want to run on a platform of fiscal responsibility and old PC-style economics, that is one thing. But as long as they run on their ideas of morality, it's game over.

Wow, that was awesome

And you're absolutely right - you have to separate the "West" and Alberta because they are more dissimilar than they are similar.

Great post!!

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

i think i'm more worried about the fact that they're throwing stockwell day's name around for minister of foreign affairs.

Actually according to today's Ottawa Citizen (and that's what you read to get the word on the street here in Ottawa) Peter McKay is rumoured to be a prime candidate for Minister of Foreign Affairs. Much more preferable than Mr. Day!

Oh, someone just sent me this - hilarious!!

http://www.lecornichon.qc.ca/galeries_1/polcan/000047-stephen_harper.jpg

 

[A_Wanderer]

Wanderer: Trudeau was the best dressed most outgoing PM ever, his policies are something to be marvled at. Your generalization is untrue, and that goes for both sides of the specturm. But you probably have no clue who trudeau is so....

Wasn't he the guy who dated Margot Kidder?

I believe that your sarcasm detector is busted, David Cameron proves that that same sort of politician can take route on the supposed right.

Looking at successful conservative leaders in recent times I think that John Howard illustrates the phenomena that I am talking about rather well.

 

[dandy]

Actually according to today's Ottawa Citizen (and that's what you read to get the word on the street here in Ottawa) Peter McKay is rumoured to be a prime candidate for Minister of Foreign Affairs. Much more preferable than Mr. Day!

peter mackay's name is getting thrown around for everything, lol. minister of justice, deputy PM, now this...

anyone would be better than stock for foreign affairs.

 

[melon]

Wanderer: Trudeau was the best dressed most outgoing PM ever, his policies are something to be marvled at. Your generalization is untrue, and that goes for both sides of the specturm. But you probably have no clue who trudeau is so....

Can Trudeau's ghost run for the Liberal leadership?

Melon

 

[diamond]

a toast to the new Canada.

perhaps now to be considered the 51st state of the union, and at last severing her ties from the Queen's apron strings.

db9

 

[dandy]

Can Trudeau's ghost run for the Liberal leadership?

Melon

well, he does have a couple of dashing sons...

 

[Irvine511]

a toast to the new Canada.

perhaps now to be considered the 51st state of the union, and at last severing her ties from the Queen's apron strings.

db9

^ like the drunk uncle at the family reunion that you have to apologize for ...

 

[Judah]

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the first year to 18 months. Look for Harper to stick to trying to get his fiscal agenda/promises going. Cut the GST, cut income tax, get into talks with provinces over the supposed fiscal imbalance, reform accountability. A middle-of-the-road appraoch to gain Canadians' confidence, show them they're working.

I think they'll wait until they get a majority before they start moving onto the major parts of their social agenda...e.g. gay marriage. I wonder if they'll stall the gay marriage issue for a few years..."study" it through made-up Parliamentary committees and whatnot, or whether wanker, i mean Harper, will force a free vote as soon as he can.

 

[dandy]

i think he'll toe the line for the first bit as well. they, meaning all of the parties, have to at least make a reasonable effort to keep this dysfunctional family together for at least a year or so to avoid outraging the public with yet another election. the smart thing for him to do would be to stick to the five issues he put forward in his campaign, and leave his controversial social agenda on the backburner. preferably forever.

in the meantime, the liberals will be regrouping under a new leader, so when the government inevitably falls, they'll hopefully be able to rise above the corruption scandals and in-party divisiveness.

who knows, it could be same sex marriage that brings this government down.

it's going to be an interesting next couple of years, that's for sure.

 

[VintagePunk]

That's my worst fear - that he and his party will be relatively well behaved for the next year or so, lulling Canadians into a false sense of security, then winning a majority next time, enabling him to push his social and moral agenda.

 

[diamond]

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the first year to 18 months. Look for Harper to stick to trying to get his fiscal agenda/promises going. Cut the GST, cut income tax, get into talks with provinces over the supposed fiscal imbalance, reform accountability. A middle-of-the-road appraoch to gain Canadians' confidence, show them they're working.

I think they'll wait until they get a majority before they start moving onto the major parts of their social agenda...e.g. gay marriage. I wonder if they'll stall the gay marriage issue for a few years..."study" it through made-up Parliamentary committees and whatnot, or whether wanker, i mean Harper, will force a free vote as soon as he can.

nevermind

 

[diamond]

^ like the drunk uncle at the family reunion that you have to apologize for ...

nice avatar

 

[Zoomerang96]

well, it's only fair to give harper his due when it's deserved.

he promptly told the american ambassador to screw off today, which impressed me.

while i don't necessarily agree with the arctic initiative, i don't necessarily disagree with it either - and regardless, any time our leaders stand up to the americans, i can't help but feel good.

 

[dandy]

yeah, but he's already starting blabbing again about the same sex marriage "debate," saying he's going to push it into the agenda sooner rather than later.



i think the liberals need to make getting a new leader a priority.

 

[AliEnvy]

he promptly told the american ambassador to screw off today, which impressed me.

For about 25 seconds it impressed me too.

Perhaps I'm too cynical, but it strikes me as a deliberate little stunt played by both sides to make Harper look good.

When Harper tells them to screw off on an issue that actually matters to Canadians, then I'll give him his due.

 

[RavenBlue]

^ Indeed, I agree

 

[lmjhitman]

and so it begins...

Klein, Harper may collide over health care
Published: Friday, January 27, 2006

Premier Ralph Klein says he had a brief phone conversation with prime minister-designate Stephen Harper on Thursday morning and promised to "keep the lines of communication open" as Alberta moves forward on its controversial health-care reform plan.

But Klein later told reporters "it remains to be seen as to how fortuitous we might or might not be" with a Conservative government in Ottawa.

Klein said "third way" health-care polices were passed unanimously by his caucus Thursday and some of the government's planned actions "may" violate the Canada Health Act.

Behind closed doors, Conservative MLAs were presented with a nine-point plan for reforming Alberta's health-care system. Among other aspects, the plan would allow doctors to practise in both the public and private health-care systems. Klein said the scheme would also allow people to pay out-of-pocket or with insurance for "non-emergency" procedures.

What services this would apply to still remains unclear, but Klein gave one example, saying that a person suffering from hemorrhoids might be able to pay for quicker treatment.

"There may, may be violations (of the Canada Health Act), but we don't know yet, because there are all kinds of steps to go through. But hemorrhoids are uncomfortable," Klein said.

Klein said he believes the Canada Health Act, designed to help the federal government ensure that the provinces and territories meet certain requirements, such as free and universal access to insured health care, should be amended in the future -- "but that would cause a political firestorm, to say the least, in Ottawa."

Harper spoke about preserving the principles of the Canada Health Act during the campaign and promised that under his leadership there will be "no private, parallel system."

The premier said the province's laws will have to be amended to make way for the reforms.

way to stand up for canada, ralph.

'cause, y'know, hemorrhoids are uncomfortable.

 

[trevster2k]

Klein had a muzzle on him during the past two months before the election but now it's over, King Ralph can let it all out.

I can't wait to see Harper's comments over the past 18 months thrown back in his face as he struggles with the Parliament. His policies are fairly staight forward, who doesn't want tax cuts or child care but the opposition will probably try to add stuff to the legislation which might cause the typical usual Parliamentary screaming and shouting. All in all, it will be business as usual. If the social agenda pops up, he's toast, the Conservative strategists aren't that stupid so it won't come up for a long time to come.

 

[melon]

If the social agenda pops up, he's toast, the Conservative strategists aren't that stupid so it won't come up for a long time to come.

Funny you say that...

New Canadian PM To Move Quickly On Gay Marriage Repeal
by Sue Bailey, Canadian Press

Posted: January 27, 2006 - 12:00 am ET

(Ottawa) Stephen Harper says he wants to move quickly as leader of a fractious new Parliament to reopen the same-sex marriage debate.

The makeup of the new House of Commons suggests the prime minister-designate knows there's a good chance such a motion will be rejected.

It would not be a total loss, however. In fact, an honorable defeat on equal marriage would satisfy obligations to Harper's most right-wing supporters while defusing a politically explosive issue.

Winning a vote to wade back through that political quagmire would lead the Conservatives straight into a legal morass, most experts say.

It would also be a costly and perhaps fruitless attempt to redefine marriage as the sole domain of one man, one woman - a fight that would only shine a spotlight on the party's most extreme social conservatives.

Still, Harper has promises to keep to the most traditional members of his team.

He has said he'll put a free-vote motion before Parliament on whether the heterosexual definition of matrimony should be restored.

"I would prefer to do it sooner rather than later - but not immediately,'' he told a news conference Thursday.

The Conservatives would then craft legislation to that effect should the motion pass in a sharply divided House of Commons.

There are 124 Tory MPs compared to 103 Liberals, 51 Bloc Quebecois, 29 New Democrats and one Independent. Any vote could be close.

But at least one Conservative insider who spoke on condition of anonymity said social moderates in the party would welcome the issue's demise.

"There would be a quiet hurrah.''

Sujit Choudhry, a law professor at University of Toronto, was one of 134 academics who signed an open letter challenging Harper's position that the traditional definition of marriage can be restored.

Parliament last summer passed a law allowing gay weddings across Canada after two years of intense debate.

More than 3,000 same-sex couples had already wed after courts in eight provinces and the Yukon cleared the way. Moreover, the highest provincial courts in Quebec, B.C. and Ontario ruled that an exclusively heterosexual definition of marriage violates equality rights.

Harper has stressed that existing gay marriages will be allowed to stand.

But Choudhry and a long list of other experts say new legislation would be a recipe for confusion and fresh legal action.

"It could be a mess,'' he said in an interview.

"I have to say, I think it's a little bit reckless.''

What would happen, Choudhry asked, if some provinces recognized a new law reversing same-sex marriage but others decided to await the outcome of inevitable constitutional challenges?

He also pointed out that the Department of Justice Act will oblige the new Conservative attorney general to assess all government bills for any clash with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Such inconsistencies are to be reported to the House "at the first convenient opportunity,'' it says.

Martha Jackman, a constitutional law professor at University of Ottawa, says the best outcome would be for a majority of MPs to "resoundingly reject'' any bid to reverse gay marriage.

"That would reflect an understanding on their parts that they're obliged to comply with the Constitution - and not just because they've gone back and back to the courts'' and lost.

Melon