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#801 |
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i imagine it would vary, if it was defined at all ... too late for me to look it up now.
__________________but here's the thing -- is romantic love a part of this pillar of Western Civilization? i'd argue that, up until 50 years ago, love had very little to do with most marriages. |
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#802 | |
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![]() One can be centrist and be able to rationally look at his country and recognize that it has historically done/is doing some pretty shitty stuff. |
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#803 |
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#804 |
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So..there aren't any gay individuals or couples at Disney on any other given day? Run for your life Mickey!
'Gay Days at Disney' Draws Protest, Warning From the Sky, Christian News For those living near Disney World in Florida, there is a good chance you saw an aircraft pulling the following banner, “Warning Gay Pride Day@Disney 2Day.” The message is from the Christian group Florida Family Association, which paid for the banner to run across the sky on Friday and Saturday. “30,000 children along with their unsuspecting parents will be confronted with the reality of witnessing over 15,000 Gay Pride Day revelers when they enter the Magic Kingdom on June 4, 2011,” wrote FFA on its website. “Florida Family Association wants to warn these families about this offensive event before they arrive at the Magic Kingdom on Saturday.” The FFA paid reportedly $7,000, money donated by supporters, to contract an aircraft company to pull two seven-foot high banners during those two days over Disney World, reported Orlando’s WESH-TV. The pro-family group is upset with Disney for allowing Gay Day attendees to hold their event during regular business hours, unlike other special events. “Disney requires special events like Grad Night and Night of Joy to be held after the Magic Kingdom’s regular operating hours,” contends FFA. “Disney does this to avoid having a large group of likeminded people in the park at the same time with regular patrons who expect a normal day at the Magic Kingdom.” Gay Days is a six-day gathering, May 31 to June 6, in Orlando. It is an annual event that has taken place for some 20 years. |
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#805 | ||||
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imagine how that would feel. |
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#806 |
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I'm going to guess what scares them is that if there was no announcement that it was Gay Pride Day, they wouldn't even know it. It just would be another happy day with happy parents and happy kids at Disney World.
Yes, gay people walk among us, and they are in the most cunning camouflage ever... normal-looking, average people. ![]()
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#807 |
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I have a feeling family groups think their kids are going to get showered in free condoms or hit by stray fecal matter from all the public buggery/hedonism going on during Gay Pride Day at Disney.
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#808 |
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#809 |
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#810 |
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Not so sure about that one. The (SPOILER ALERT!) dual suicide of the main characters at the end would seem to indicate far more than the antics of two really, really horny teenagers.
And anyone familiar with the poetry of Blake, Shelly, Moore, Shakespeare, (or even a really old dude like Solomon) knows that the notion of romantic love is not exactly a new concept. |
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#811 | ||
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well, teenagers are nothing if not melodramatic, no? besides, it's got to end with either a wedding (comedy) or a funeral (drama). Quote:
but was romantic love a prerequisite for marriage? most of these guys had their female (or, in Shakespeare's case, male) muses. their marriages were often different things. also, our notion of romantic love is absolutely informed by our understanding of women as legal equals to men, certainly not the case back then as well. |
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#812 | |||
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And lines like: "O my love, my wife! Death, that hath suck'd the honey of thy breath/Hath had no power yet upon thy beauty" and "Did my heart love till now? Forswear it, sight!/ For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night" are pretty much in the Hall of Fame as far as pledges of romantic love. Quote:
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#813 |
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the point is that the view of marriage as the ultimate expression of romantic love is a new concept.
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#814 | |
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So I'm not convinced that romance is a new idea, nor is it new within the context of marriage. |
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#815 | |||
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i think you answered this yourself: Quote:
and here's what wikipedia has to say: Quote:
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#816 |
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Yes. As the Wikipedia page you posted pointed out, romantic love wasn't much of a factor for upper classes, who were primarily focused on the socio-economic/classist benefits of marriage. Romeo and Juliet turned that notion on its head, elevating love -- not class -- as the primary reason for marriage. In this, the story was hardly revolutionary, since it was simply a re-telling of a tragic romance that stretched at least back to antiquity, and served as an indictment to upper-class values (as Shakespeare's plays were wont to do). The romance novel as a genre certainly came later, but as with most narratives, had its roots much, much earlier.
Your contention was that "up until 50 years ago, love had very little to do with most marriages", something you've said in other threads. While I don't disagree that romance was hardly the defining element of relationships before the turn of this century, to say that it's a new idea doesn't hold up historically. As I said, Christian writings from two thousand years ago discuss love and marriage, and have a much broader definition of love than simply romance. And that's just within a Christian context. |
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#817 | |
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and my contention is the modern reader projecting his own modern prejudices onto old writings. i do think, absolutely, that marriage as the ultimate (and also only legitimate) expression of romantic love is a generally new idea. you can cast a wider net, certainly, but the central assertion really hasn't been challenged. the idea that, well, "love is a force of nature" as a more modern version of R&J (in cowboy boots!) would tell is is certainly as old as the tale of said "star crossed lovers," but as it pertains to marriage, it's something very modern. |
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#818 | ||
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To say that love is a new concept in marriage overlooks thousands of years of philosophy, theology, poetry and artistry that say the opposite. |
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#819 |
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again: i'm not saying love is new. i'm saying that marriage as the ultimate expression of romantic love is a new thing.
you're painting with a much broader brush than i am. |
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#820 |
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Not for Christians....
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