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Old 03-22-2011, 09:09 AM   #621
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Here's a question for you.

What is the best situation for a child to be raised in?

A mom and dad?
I knew you weren't capable of doing this like an adult.

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Old 03-22-2011, 10:14 PM   #622
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That's the plan and it is the best plan for the children.
Please. Just stop.

And to Victoria Jackson, ummmmm...don't watch the show if it bothers you that much ? My sister and I watched it last week and from what I remember, the sun still came up the next day and life went on as usual, so...

Angela
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:07 PM   #623
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Please. Just stop.
My sister and I watched it last week and from what I remember,
the sun still came up the next day and life went on as usual, so...

Angela
Were you watching it in Japan?
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:02 AM   #624
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what is it with conservatives where they seemingly sit around watching things that offend them? if glee and homosexuality offends you, don't watch glee. to unpoliticise (is that even a word?) it, i hate country music, so i don't listen to it. i don't sit around listening to clint black or someone going "omg i fucking hate this song! god it sucks! he just needs to stop recording music." though i suppose to put it on par with jackson's comments i suppose i should insult rednecks too.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:22 AM   #625
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what is it with conservatives where they seemingly sit around watching things that offend them?
To be honest I can't do anything except laugh. Usually when someone brings up a homophobic subject or remark, it's in the context of something that is, in reality, super gay.

Sports? Football? Ass-slapping, towel-whipping, tight lycra pants? Super gay.
The Army? Bored, sweaty guys in tank tops back at base camp calling each other fag. Lady Gaga parodies on YouTube Drunk Katy Perry singalongs. Super gay.
The gym? More ass-slapping, ogling other guys, grunting, sweat. Super gay.

Kind of ironic.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:26 AM   #626
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That's the plan and it is the best plan for the children.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:26 AM   #627
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Sports? Football? Ass-slapping, towel-whipping, tight lycra pants? Super gay.
The Army? Bored, sweaty guys in tank tops back at base camp calling each other fag.
The gym? More ass-slapping, ogling other guys, grunting, sweat. Super gay.


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Old 03-23-2011, 12:37 PM   #628
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what is it with conservatives where they seemingly sit around watching things that offend them?
What is it with liberals where they do the same thing with Glenn Beck and Rush? Plenty of people on both sides of the ideological aisle watch what the other group does and calls foul on it. "Glee" is a cultural influence the same way that Beck and Rush are cultural influences; they catch flak when they present viewpoints that their antagonists don't like.
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:58 PM   #629
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What is it with liberals where they do the same thing with Glenn Beck and Rush? Plenty of people on both sides of the ideological aisle watch what the other group does and calls foul on it. "Glee" is a cultural influence the same way that Beck and Rush are cultural influences; they catch flak when they present viewpoints that their antagonists don't like.


"Glee" isn't pretending to be news, though. i think that's a fair distinction.

but at the end of the day, all these shows are motivated by ratings, and believe me, having Kurt and Blaine kiss would never have happened had executives at Fox not done their research and decided that it would be a very good idea for their ratings. obviously, teenagers are more than ready for a love story involving two gay high schoolers that shows a (still very chaste ... remember the bed hopping heteros of Dawson's Creek over a decade ago?) small amount of physical affection. television reflects the perceived interests and values of it's viewers, and this is where the "Glee" audience is.

(and i know you know all that ... just using your post as a jumping off point)
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:21 PM   #630
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"Glee" isn't pretending to be news, though. i think that's a fair distinction.
But it reflects a worldview. I don't think that's any great shock; Ryan Murphy makes no apology for it, nor should he. (Sorkin was recently speaking at an event and said, "All art has a point of view.") The question was, "what's with conservatives watching things they don't like" -- as if only conservatives do it. (Rush and Beck's audiences sure aren't just conservatives.) Everyone likes getting mad at the other side; it's the way it is. And it does indeed drive up the ratings you mentioned...
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:33 PM   #631
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i'd be willing to bet, though, that Victoria Jackson is worried that "Glee" is going to turn kids gay. that's what virtually *all* of NOM's anti-gay ads are about, the idea of "schools teaching about gay marriage" -- it's when those television ads hit, ads of small children and their parents that play on whatever primal fear parents have about having a gay child, that the polling starts to shift just enough so that you get anti-gay victories in CA and ME.

anyway, as for "Glee," my assessments of it's quality change not just from week to week, but literally from commercial to commercial. there are times when it's inspired, and then there are times when it's an incoherent heap of shit inhabited by characters who have random motivations assigned to them. i do think, however, that it handles it's gay subject matter with a much lighter foot than many other shows, and while Kurt is a walking mass of stereotypes, he's wonderfully played, the bullying episodes were very real, and he and his dad have some of the best scenes on television. the "sex talk" was genuinely moving.

and you're right about a worldview. only a gay man like Ryan Murphy would have the hard won insight to script a speech like this:

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"When you're intimate with someone in that way, you gotta know that you're exposing yourself. You're never gonna be more vulnerable, and that scares the hell out of a lot of guys ... With two guys you've got two people who think that sex is just sex. It's gonna be easier to come by and once you start, you aren't gonna want to stop. You gotta know that it means something. It's doing something to you, to your heart, to your self-esteem, even though it feels like you're just having fun...When you're ready, I want you to be able to do everything. But when you're ready, I want you to use it as a way to connect to another person. Don't throw yourself around like you don't matter, because you matter."
not only does this tie into notions of sexuality that we were discussing in the other thread, but more importantly, this is something gay kids never hear. and it's the most important message of all, and it is directly tied into not just this thread, and not just the sky-high rates of suicide and substance abuse among gay kids, but the entire same-sex marriage movement: you are not inferior, a mistake, or a choice; you are as worthy as anyone else; above all, you matter.
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Old 03-23-2011, 01:54 PM   #632
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i'd be willing to bet, though, that Victoria Jackson is worried that "Glee" is going to turn kids gay.
Sure. Anyone who doesn't like what "the other side" watches is going to come out railing against anything they see as winning hearts and minds. I just thought it unfortunate that Khanada politicized one side of the aisle, when the reality is, it's simply part of the political discourse now, on both sides.

And for the record, Victoria Jackson can join Jon Voight in the "I'm conservative and bat-sh*t crazy" hall of fame. (I find it hilarious, by the way, that I'm writing a response to this while a Michelle Bachman ad runs at the top of the page. Hilarious and terrifying.)

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anyway, as for "Glee," my assessments of it's quality change not just from week to week, but literally from commercial to commercial. there are times when it's inspired, and then there are times when it's an incoherent heap of shit inhabited by characters who have random motivations assigned to them.
You and I agree here. I've grown tired of the "everyone sitting in class while someone sings the requisite slow acoustic song and the camera dollies and pans around their faces" moment in every episode. It feels a little like a one-trick pony. The musical numbers, however, are fantastic, and I think more than anything has led to the show being structured now like a bunch of ready-made YouTube moments with some drama thrown in.

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i do think, however, that it handles it's gay subject matter with a much lighter foot than many other shows, and while Kurt is a walking mass of stereotypes, he's wonderfully played, the bullying episodes were very real, and he and his dad have some of the best scenes on television.
Agree. I'm kind of curious how "Glee" and "Modern Family" are received within the gay community. While both shows are still trading in stereotypes and archetypes (like most TV), they've certainly moved the ball down the field in terms of presenting gay characters on TV we've never seen before. (Though I still think Jack on "Dawson's Creek" was more trend-setting, since he wasn't the walking mass of stereotypes.)
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:32 PM   #633
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I think the Kurt and his Dad moments are the best part of that show, they should focus more on that and not Gwyneth Paltrow, etc. It's not the show it used to be-too gimmicky. I don't see how people could be worried about their kids and Glee, since it's not a show for kids. If I had a kid they'd have to be an older teen to watch it. I do think it would be a good show for parents and teens to watch together.

And Dawson's Creek rules-no musical numbers but it still wins, old school style.
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Old 03-23-2011, 05:39 PM   #634
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And Dawson's Creek rules-no musical numbers but it still wins, old school style.
90s teen dramas! High-five!
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:43 PM   #635
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i guess should've clarified, i meant sitcoms and such, not news/news commentary shows.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:42 AM   #636
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Agree. I'm kind of curious how "Glee" and "Modern Family" are received within the gay community. While both shows are still trading in stereotypes and archetypes (like most TV), they've certainly moved the ball down the field in terms of presenting gay characters on TV we've never seen before. (Though I still think Jack on "Dawson's Creek" was more trend-setting, since he wasn't the walking mass of stereotypes.)

well, i can only really speak for myself, but i think my opinions are pretty mainstream gay. both shows are well received. you can go into many bars that have video channels -- there's a whole subculture of dance-oriented pop and, like, Britney b-sides and mid-period George Michael that's played on video monitors in gay bars -- and you'll see clips from "Glee" played amongst your more typical selections. while Kurt is awash in stereotypes, they are played with love. i'll never forget in the first season when Kristen Chenoworth sang "maybe this time" from Cabaret, and absolutely killed it, and then the gag after such a big, emotional song, was a cutaway of Kurt wiping a single tear from his eye. stereotypical? yes. but did i do the same thing at home and then burst out laughing because Kurt and i had the same reaction? yes. Kurt is also easily the most sympathetic character on the show, he gets the best scenes with his dad, and his love story arc with Blaine comes off as the most believable. it is TV, and most characters are quickly drawn and easily understood, but so long as they are drawn with affection and the distinction of laughing with, rather than laughing at, then there's usually no problems. Ryan Murphy being openly gay certainly helps it's cred, and as i pointed out earlier, some of the writing on gay topics shows an insight that you probably wouldn't get from most straight writers.

as for Modern Family, it's a critically acclaimed show, and with good reason. the writing is very, very sharp and it's a model of consistency (whereas "Glee" is known for it's inconsistency). sure, Mitchell and Cameron are stereotypes, but they are no more stereotypes than Phil and Claire or Gloria (my favorite character). it's all comedy, and what's remarkable about Modern Family is how fairly Mitchell and Cam are treated. situations are contrived in order to showcase their easily identifiable (and mockable) traits just like anyone else, and within the world of the show, they are absolute equals to any other member of the family. their love for one another is never questioned; their status as full, and loved, family members is never questioned; and their status as loving parents is never questioned. as Kurt's dad might say, they matter.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:30 PM   #637
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as for Modern Family, it's a critically acclaimed show, and with good reason. the writing is very, very sharp and it's a model of consistency (whereas "Glee" is known for it's inconsistency). sure, Mitchell and Cameron are stereotypes, but they are no more stereotypes than Phil and Claire or Gloria (my favorite character). it's all comedy, and what's remarkable about Modern Family is how fairly Mitchell and Cam are treated. situations are contrived in order to showcase their easily identifiable (and mockable) traits just like anyone else, and within the world of the show, they are absolute equals to any other member of the family. their love for one another is never questioned; their status as full, and loved, family members is never questioned; and their status as loving parents is never questioned. as Kurt's dad might say, they matter.
This reminds me of an article I was reading the other day about Community and about Donald Glover, in relation to how he's not a stereotypical black character in any way.

I should start watching Modern Family.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:44 PM   #638
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This reminds me of an article I was reading the other day about Community and about Donald Glover, in relation to how he's not a stereotypical black character in any way.

I should start watching Modern Family.
ha, i was just thinking about that too when i was watching it the other day.

and yes you should.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:36 PM   #639
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no, really guys, Springsteen aside, isn't it HILARIOUS that someone would use Adam and Eve as a reference point for the ideal family when they gave birth to one son who murdered the other?

he'd have been much better of with Amanda and Eve.


Please explain why a mom and dad are not the ideal family.

Please explain why the the destruction of this family unit has been a positive event for this generation.
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:37 PM   #640
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Please explain why a mom and dad are not the ideal family.

Please explain why the the destruction of this family unit has been a positive event for this generation.
These are not the points we're making and you know it.

Troll.
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