The Case Against Homework? - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-16-2006, 11:46 AM   #101
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways


Would they be willing to take a pay cut to do so?

Teachers' time off is unpaid.
I never realized this until last week. I had a second-round interview for a job at a local school. I'm not a teacher, but they said it would be the same pay scale. She said it was the entry teacher's salary, plus a little more because I'd have to put in summer hours at the end of August. I never knew that the salaries DID take into account the time off during the summer. I felt kind of guilty that I'd be paid more than a teacher, even if I would have to put in three additional weeks. Just another reason to appreciate teachers!
__________________

Liesje is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:48 AM   #102
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


Phil is going back to school for special ed and I know it's not a cop-out. I've seen him with kids and he was born to teach, especially with kids that have autism and downs syndrome.

The autism issue is becoming huge. More and more children are falling into the spectrum. Kudos to him. We need educators who are willing to work with these children. Many can be mainstreamed into the classroom if you can get a good team of people working together.
__________________

Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:49 AM   #103
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Well that may be the case, but it is not here. The salary is not deferred, they are paid over the summer time. If you elect to teach summer school, you get more $$.

In her school board, once you have 12 years of experience + an MA or MEd in your field + a specialization (requires you to complete 3 courses), you earn $82K/year.

That is an incredibly well paid position compared to many other people I know. Some teachers are poorly paid but in other areas they are very, VERY well compensated.

You find me another profession which pays $82K annually here in Ontario and whose workers get about 10 weeks of vacation per year, not to mention the extremely generous pension plan and excellent governmental benefits. There is no other such profession here.

I am not saying that a $25K/year salary is a myth. But it is by no means standard across the board and across the world either.
anitram is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:50 AM   #104
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Most teachers do not get paid to set up their classrooms. They enter the school a week to two weeks early to prepare for the children coming in. UNPAID. Rainy days in August are the target days to get ready.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:51 AM   #105
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
$82K/year.
There is not a single teacher in any of the surrounding towns making anywhere near 82K a year.

That is the starting salary of a principal working almost full year.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:53 AM   #106
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
2004 Survey & Analysis of Teacher Salary Trends

For the first time since the 1999-2000 school year, the average teacher salary failed to keep up with inflation, according to the AFT's latest salary survey. The AFT teacher salary survey found that the average teacher salary in the 2003-04 school year was $46,597, a 2.2 percent increase from the year before.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:54 AM   #107
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
I bet MArtha and other elementary school teachers put in SHITEloads of extra time to get ready for the year.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:54 AM   #108
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,786
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
To be fair, I have worked in the Army, Hotel Industry, Metal Casting Industry, Shipping and Receiving industry.

None of the jobs have the demands on them that my final profession does.

To be fair, I never said other professions shouldn't have time off. To be fair, I feel I have had enough other experiences in my life to feel comfortable saying the time off is needed.
Reading this thread in its entirety, there's obviously a lot of extremely disgrunted teachers in this country, and, despite what you all might automatically think of me after having read this thread, I do not discount your experiences.

On the other hand, most of these issues regarding salaries, etc. are issues that many Americans are having. The last 25 years, despite all the rosy inflation numbers posted by those respective presidents, have been brutal to the average American. Our collective buying power has crumbled under a load of debt.

Frankly, if teaching is such a terrible profession these days, it will eventually rear its ugly head in the marketplace. It was argued (whether you agree with that argument or not) that there was a glut of new teachers during the Vietnam War, because of the fact that it was a legal way to avoid the draft. Well, those teachers are starting to approach retirement, and, over time, they'll be gone. With a genuine shortage of teachers--and it will have to be a rather severe one, not just an impending crisis--the U.S. government will finally feel compelled to do something about it. Americans do not have a history of "preventative medicine"; they're best known for "crisis management."

Melon
melon is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:57 AM   #109
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
What kills me Melon is that I find the veteran teachers who are leaving to be outstanding teachers.

They will all be gone before 2014 when every child has to be passing the state tests. Every CHILD.

The new teachers coming into the profession, while full of energy, and ideas, I think lack the complete skill package that it would take to not leave a child behind. Veteran teachers deserve MORE respect.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:57 AM   #110
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Well that may be the case, but it is not here. The salary is not deferred, they are paid over the summer time. If you elect to teach summer school, you get more $$.

In her school board, once you have 12 years of experience + an MA or MEd in your field + a specialization (requires you to complete 3 courses), you earn $82K/year.governmental benefits. There is no other such profession here.
There must be lines outside the district employment office. Lines, I tell you.
martha is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:58 AM   #111
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,786
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
What kills me Melon is that I find the veteran teachers who are leaving to be outstanding teachers.
The best teachers I had were the veteran teachers, so I'm not going to disagree with you here.

Melon
melon is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:58 AM   #112
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,563
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I am not saying that a $25K/year salary is a myth. But it is by no means standard across the board and across the world either.
I doubt it's anywhere near the average, but since the parochial schools get zero funding, it's definitely the norm for those teachers. There's many things I don't like about private schooling, but the one thing I do like is that you KNOW that at 25K, the teachers are only teaching because they absolutely love it.

As for the autism thing, yes I think Phil will be perfect for it. He's great at building relationships with little kids. He taught kids gymnastics for years, but a lot of his time was working with autistic kids, using sports to help them with confidence and learning to interact with peers. I'm glad he's found his niche and we don't really care what the pay is or how many hours he has to work. He loves doing it and that's all that matters.
Liesje is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:59 AM   #113
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha


There must be lines outside the district employment office. Lines, I tell you.
You are not making 82,000?
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:59 AM   #114
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
WildHoneyAlways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In a glass case of emotion
Posts: 8,158
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


And yet, every prospective teacher knows this going into the profession. This isn't exactly a new and unexpected change in terms.

Melon
I was responding to anitram's suggesting that people in other professions needing time to recharge. I wasn't complaining about unpaid time off.
WildHoneyAlways is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 11:59 AM   #115
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,786
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
I was responding to anitram's suggesting that people in other professions needing time to recharge. I wasn't complaining about unpaid time off.
Fair enough.

Cheers...

Melon
melon is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 12:02 PM   #116
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Here's why people don't respect schoolteachers: They all think they can do it because they all remember their own school years. It's what everyone has in common. "I remember Mrs. Jones. I could do what she did." We make it look easy, so people think it's easy. Plus, many of us are women, and men tend to think that women's work is easier than their own.

Is there another profession that endures the bullshit we get from the public? Do people set medical policy by referendum? Do people put require lawyers to submit to the whims of the politicians to determine how they do their jobs?
martha is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 12:02 PM   #117
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


The best teachers I had were the veteran teachers, so I'm not going to disagree with you here.

Melon
And when they leave, they look at me and say, what the hell has happened to the profession. We are dealing with 6, 7, 8 year olds talking about sex like it is no big thing. We are dealing with children bringing weapons to school. We are dealing with two hour interviews almost daily trying to investigate incidents and make certain we are not going to get sued for disciplining a child.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 12:03 PM   #118
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


And when they leave, they look at me and say, what the hell has happened to the profession. We are dealing with 6, 7, 8 year olds talking about sex like it is no big thing. We are dealing with children bringing weapons to school. We are dealing with two hour interviews almost daily trying to investigate incidents and make certain we are not going to get sued for disciplining a child.
And we do this with people who don't know what the hell they're talking about trying to tell us how to do our jobs.
martha is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 12:07 PM   #119
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 04:03 PM
What killed me the other day, four schools in our area were able to get their scores up over two years to be removed from the Failing to perform list.

The headline...

"Four Schools ESCAPE"

Not, accolades, not praise ....ESCAPE...
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 09-16-2006, 12:08 PM   #120
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ásgarðr
Posts: 11,786
Local Time: 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
And when they leave, they look at me and say, what the hell has happened to the profession. We are dealing with 6, 7, 8 year olds talking about sex like it is no big thing. We are dealing with children bringing weapons to school. We are dealing with two hour interviews almost daily trying to investigate incidents and make certain we are not going to get sued for disciplining a child.
One of the biggest differences I've noticed between public and private schools is that private schools generally have wider latitude to enforce discipline, with parents having less recourse to complain.

I'm also a fan of fairly strict dress codes (although one of my major complaints with how they are applied is that they are generally made of clothes that are grotesquely unfashionable and poorly made).

I know that the laws are rather screwed up in these regards, although I see more and more public schools choosing uniforms these days. I do think that there needs to be something seriously done, legislatively, to clarify and strengthen disciplinary action, without resorting to draconian "zero tolerance" policies. Private schools generally don't have those either.

Melon
__________________

melon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×