The Bigly 2016 US Presidential Election Thread, Part XV

[BigMacPhisto]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Seriously, go look at what you wrote and tell me you aren't advocating the kind of obstructionism of which you're criticizing the right.

Yep, I'm not. Because I never have been in support of obstructionism nor said that the left shouldn't at least try to work with Republicans.

I just don't understand what you're failing to grasp here. If one group isn't willing to compromise whatsoever, then voting with them on anything is essentially not a compromise because they are only supportive of things anathema to your cause. It's getting none of what you want instead of some.

Again, the worry of the left isn't Hillary trying to work with them for good things. It's that they won't support any of that stuff (and we all know they won't) so it will lead her to proactively work with them on crap like expanded fracking, militarism and cutting Social Security (something she pondered in private speeches and something Obama pondered as part of a "Grand Bargain" - both merely to try to get somewhere with Republicans). That's not progress, it's a step backward for no real reason.

Likewise, Republicans have proven that they aren't even willing to bargain within the same bit of legislation. Such as their "piece meal" approach to immigration where they basically wanted to pass a bill to increase border security and then leave Obama high-and-dry when it came to the rest. It's that sort of pointless trickery that makes it not even worth having an honest discussion with these idiots, but hey, there's no harm in trying.

I'm all for getting some of what you want. I have no problem with reaching across the aisle. They aren't going to listen whatsoever. And there's precedent for somebody in Hillary's position and his name is Bill Clinton. He was stonewalled by Republicans so he went along with them on deregulating the banks, cutting welfare, etc. just to be able to say he "did something"...and that's what worries me and should worry everybody in this thread.

[BigMacPhisto]

Originally Posted by VintagePunk

But this somehow wouldn't have been an issue for Bernie and his leftist policies? I don't ever remember you bringing this up as an issue for Bernie, yet you have repeatedly for Clinton.

Actually, I said multiple times that any Democrat would suffer the exact same fate. The only plus Bernie had is that maybe actually riling up people and getting thousands marching in the streets could lead to, say, a minimum wage increase via grassroots efforts. It's at least a bolder attempt for change, but with the Republican establishment the way it is, it likely would have failed as well.

Again, it's not Hillary Clinton that is the problem when it comes to this. But she can become a problem if she willingly sells out key causes of the left for no real reason. I just can't for a second think that the Hillary Clinton that knows she is becoming the first female President is going to sit in that office for eight years with her hands tied behind her back thanks to a GOP Congress (and, some of the time, Senate).

We already know that Clinton and her inner circle (via an in-depth article on her campaign months back) discuss the issue of GOP obstructionism all the time with one another. She is naively optimistic and also believes that Obama somehow screwed up in dealing with them (really?). So it's not like she doesn't see the writing on the wall and the political ramifications that will ensue when the GOP inevitably holds onto the House in a couple weeks.

And the obstructionist mud-fight idea I talked about months back (where Democrats are best to just literally wait for Republican voters to die off and then start passing legislation they like) wasn't supposed to be something batshit or "my way or the highway"...it's literally the political reality that we are facing. They won't compromise, so why, in the meantime, stab yourself in the side with anti-environmental, anti-worker garbage that they support?

The future is looking good for Democrats. It just might take ten years to finally get the House back. Until then, wait it out. Again, I'm all for compromises if they are willing to come to the table, but this GOP has absolutely no reason to do so. Their tactics are a clearly winning strategy that only hurts them on the national level and does an excellent job at suppressing turnout by lowering America's opinion of politicians. Why would you stop a strategy that's helping you win a bunch of extra Senate and House seats every mid-term?

[DaveC]

none of it matters anyways because the advanced terminal palliative parkinsonssuperaidseverythingcancerstroke epilepsy is going to kill her by thanksgiving.

that damn magic johnson.

[BVS]

Guys, did you all hear that "super-liberal hero" Michael Moore has endorsed Don the Con Trump?! Facebook is telling me, so it must be true.


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[anitram]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i don't remember, but didn't Rove orchestrate this? states with GOP governors/legislatures put these measures up for votes in 2004 to motivate the socially conservative base, which may have actually tipped Ohio.

Yes, Rove played a role in some of the states (others caught on and decided to jump on the homophobic bandwagon). In most instances those measures were going to ballot anyway, Rove was more instrumental in timing it to coincide with a presidential election year.

Luckily hating gays no longer seems to motivate enough people to get their asses to the voting booth.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by BVS

Guys, did you all hear that "super-liberal hero" Michael Moore has endorsed Don the Con Trump?! Facebook is telling me, so it must be true.

Speaking of Michael Moore, Roger & Me is such a brilliant documentary. Like nothing else at that time. I wish he'd tipped his hat then and not gone down the road of one bad movie after another.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Mike Pence's plane skidded off the runway at LGA

edit- no injuries reported, plane in grass near Grand Central Parkway

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

Mike Pence's plane skidded off the runway at LGA

edit- no injuries reported, plane in grass near Grand Central Parkway

Given this:



I'm curious if they ok'd a non-responsive pair of brakes or something after repairing.

[LuckyNumber7]

Just did some reading on that particular aircraft. It's a 737-700, so a relatively new piece of equipment.

Leased from the new Eastern Airlines, hence the livery.

Which made me also wonder, how does Trump get around on a presidential campaign in his private aircraft? That thing is a totally non operated 727. Nobody flies them anymore. Must be a nightmare when something goes wrong (shit goes wrong with aircraft all the time). I would not be surprised if it's been retrofitted with as much from a 737 as possible in the cockpit, or if they operate with a flight engineer.

edit: The orange man must've upgraded. He flies a 757 now.

[anitram]

Didn't Pence's old dog just die too?

[BigMacPhisto]

Originally Posted by anitram

Speaking of Michael Moore, Roger & Me is such a brilliant documentary. Like nothing else at that time. I wish he'd tipped his hat then and not gone down the road of one bad movie after another.

Yep. Bowling for Columbine was the beginning of the end for him. I was literally appalled when, after watching it back in 2002 or whatever to find just how manipulative and misleading the entire thing happened to be...like who the fuck includes a sit down chat with the creators of South Park and then a second later shows us an unfunny cartoon that looks exactly like their animation style? I'm sure Moore considers himself an artist so why would he try and pass off inferior work as that of two people that were willing to support his own? That film is literally filled with dozens more out-of-context moments, usually glued together just to get a rise out of people.

Then came the Oscars where he was rightfully criticized for his anti-Bush speech. Fair enough to have an opinion, but not to blindly bring up all the other Documentary Nominees without telling them why you want them all on stage and the statement you're about to make. Not only was it sickening, but it lead to such an embarrassment for Moore and getting on the radar of the rightwing media that he basically shifted from a far-left guy to willing to shackle himself to the Democratic Party for the rest of his life in order to try to get a win for his own ego. This is further exemplified in him now going on news shows talking about how much he loves Hillary Clinton despite railing against her during this primary season and making all sorts of anti-Clinton statements and writings throughout the 90s and early part of this century.

And, finally, Fahrenheit 9/11. A complete missed opportunity if there ever was one. Should have showed the public the actual problems the Bush administration was causing rather than basically going through some conspiracy theory stuff regarding Saudis and utilizing the death of a military officer and his family's emotional response to try and milk tears from the audience. It was atrocious.

And then, recently, that fucker had the gall to try and say modern documentaries are boring and that the Academy doesn't want to award ones that are "entertaining"...he's basically the living embodiment of your gross college roommate that wouldn't shut up about his minimal knowledge of politics obtained by The Daily Show suddenly getting a camera and a budget. A hack.

[gump]

Maddow has just played some tape of Trump speaking about his ability to play baseball, and it's hilarious and scary at the same time. "I was the best baseball player in New York". that was the early 60s. You know, when Mantle, Maris and Ford played for the Yankees. I hope the video will be online soon.


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[Vlad n U 2]

I generally find Moore amusing, my opinion of him is summed up by watching and liking much of the content in Capitalism: A Love Story - then cringing right at the very end.

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

Going to have at least 12 years of a dem in the white house, might be able to take all of Congress too if this election is a true blow out, and could tip the balance in the Supreme Court for the next 40 years...

THATS NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH!!!! WE MUST CRUSH THE REPUBLICANS INTO DUST!!!

Jesus... don't those who lean far to the left realize that you're winning? Seriously... From 1992 to at least 2020 will feature 20 of 28 years of a Democrat in the white house, the country is MUCH further to the left than it was at the start of that run, and the likely Supreme Court tipping will only push the country further to the left.

Social conservatism is dying. They're not going to go down without a fight, but it's a fight without hope. Don't fucking push it so far that you give them life. Stay the course and you'll get everything you want. Don't be a greedy dick about it. Sheesh.

I'll give you social progressivism (which is very much a positive development), yes, but no genuine leftist (not liberal) would seriously think that the left are 'winning' here.

[BigMacPhisto]

They're on the cusp of winning, obviously. Economically speaking, they've done nothing but lose, mostly, for decades. That could (and will) eventually change, but there's really no pretending that we're out of the woods at this point. Union memberships declined like crazy, wages stagnated, jobs were shipped overseas and underemployment is a MAJOR issue along with the severe economic bleeding going on in rural areas.

[LuckyNumber7]

In case any of you were wondering how my (soon to be former) district representative Alan Grayson was handling his final days in office...

[digitize]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Just did some reading on that particular aircraft. It's a 737-700, so a relatively new piece of equipment.

Leased from the new Eastern Airlines, hence the livery.

Which made me also wonder, how does Trump get around on a presidential campaign in his private aircraft? That thing is a totally non operated 727. Nobody flies them anymore. Must be a nightmare when something goes wrong (shit goes wrong with aircraft all the time). I would not be surprised if it's been retrofitted with as much from a 737 as possible in the cockpit, or if they operate with a flight engineer.

edit: The orange man must've upgraded. He flies a 757 now.

I don't really have anything to add, but let me just say that, as a commercial aviation geek, I appreciate this post.


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[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by digitize

I don't really have anything to add, but let me just say that, as a commercial aviation geek, I appreciate this post.


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Total aviation geek here as well. And aerospace engineer. But equally fascinated with the aircraft as I am with the industry.

[digitize]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Total aviation geek here as well. And aerospace engineer. But equally fascinated with the aircraft as I am with the industry.

Also fascinated by the aircraft, though not an aerospace engineer. *high-five*


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[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by digitize

Also fascinated by the aircraft, though not an aerospace engineer. *high-five*


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Computer science, right?


This all has election relevance I promise.

[Axver]

So now Trump says the election should be cancelled and the victory given to him, huh.

No authoritarian has ever suggested such a thing before!