The Atrocities of humankind, this DVD and The Blessings of A Free Society.. - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-07-2002, 02:12 AM   #1
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The Atrocities of humankind, this DVD and The Blessings of A Free Society..

I watched this HORRIFIC/GRAPHIC DVD tonight entitled:" Executions" by Reality Media. It was a documentary that showed :

Executions
Assinations
Slaughtering of Innocents
Dismembering of polictical prisoners
Corpses ect.

It made me physically ill, and I could not finish it. This made reality cop shows look like bubblegum rock.

It showed present day atrocities and past atrocities committed by-
Stalin
Hitler
Saddam
The IRA
SanSalvador
Nigeria
Vietnam
Lebannon..
ect ect ect..I had to hurl once..

What I learned after comtemplating and collecting myself is this-
We that live in FREE SOCIETYS DO NOT realize HOW lucky and BLESSED we are.:idea:

Third world countries ran by dictators and tyrrants that WHIMSCIALLY and RANDOMLY slaughter their country men at WILL, make me love my country more and weep for their innocent.

Lastly I feel ashamed for taking my country for granted.
I truly feel that the founding fathers of my country were inspired men when they penned The Declaration Of Independence.:idea:

Peace
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:idea:
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Old 07-07-2002, 08:28 AM   #2
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IT has nothing to do with free society


Attrocites have also been commited in the name of freedom.


My thinking is that at times...humans are worse than animals no animal commits the attrocites that mankind has commited


We've been sculpted in the image of god, yet we fail to recognize it and the price ...is not only separation from each other, but from ourselves....for no man with a conscience can commit those acts.
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Old 07-07-2002, 08:57 AM   #3
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I agree diamond, sometimes i cant for granted the country that Im forunate to live in. I was talking to my mom about how lucky we are and she said the that I think hit this subject on the nail. She said that America is the only country were you can say that u arent proud to be an American and still be standing there. If someone said that in another country about their country most likely they wouldnt be with us anymore.


my .02
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Old 07-07-2002, 11:43 AM   #4
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Diamond your post made me realize how I sometimes forget how lucky I am to live in a peaceful country where I don't have to worry for my life every single day.
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Old 07-07-2002, 11:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
IT has nothing to do with free society


Attrocites have also been commited in the name of freedom.


My thinking is that at times...humans are worse than animals no animal commits the attrocites that mankind has commited


We've been sculpted in the image of god, yet we fail to recognize it and the price ...is not only separation from each other, but from ourselves....for no man with a conscience can commit those acts.
very true Arun lets not forget Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Napalm, et al.
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Old 07-07-2002, 12:19 PM   #6
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San Salvador was propped up by the American government during the 1980s, or do we forget that? I hope that we never do.

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Old 07-07-2002, 12:42 PM   #7
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I'm not trampling on the US


but we have made mistakes

no nation has a perfect history
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Old 07-07-2002, 06:26 PM   #8
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Re: The Atrocities of humankind, this DVD and The Blessings of A Free Society..

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
I watched this HORRIFIC/GRAPHIC DVD tonight entitled:" Executions" by Reality Media.

[...]

What I learned after comtemplating and collecting myself is this-
We that live in FREE SOCIETYS DO NOT realize HOW lucky and BLESSED we are.:idea:

But...the US carries out executions.

You might also want to note that the death squads in El Salvador you refer to were often trained by the US.
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Old 07-07-2002, 08:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by adamswildhoney
I agree diamond, sometimes i cant for granted the country that Im forunate to live in. I was talking to my mom about how lucky we are and she said the that I think hit this subject on the nail. She said that America is the only country were you can say that u arent proud to be an American and still be standing there. If someone said that in another country about their country most likely they wouldnt be with us anymore.


my .02
Yes .
You hit it on head Naya and AWH

What upsets me as a US Citizen is-
Ppl here SCREAM about their civil rights in our country. They demand everything like FREE this to FREE THAT..ignoring the fact that these other human beings HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS WHATSOEVER in their own countries
No legal representation.
NO respect at all.
And we complain here.

The tape showed prisoners in Iraq getting limbs amputated for stealing TVs ect,,
In our country PRISONERS complain if they DONT have a color TV in their cell

Whats up w that.?
Fizzing- I know who trained the death squads.
Raf- Your answers are bcoming too predictable:idea:

Peace-
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Old 07-07-2002, 08:17 PM   #10
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You don't need to rent a DVD to see what's going on. Just watch the evening news. It's just as horrific much of the time.

We, in the western world nowadays really have no idea how good we have it.

If you want to feel blessed, next time you go to the gas station and the guy pumping your gas has a foreign accent, ask him where he's from. Don't be surprised when you hear he's a refugee from Bosnia who 3 years ago was either a doctor, lawyer or engineer living in big house in a comfy subdivision who, having survived, lost literally everything (including loved ones) and had to start over in a forein country.
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Old 07-08-2002, 01:14 AM   #11
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Let's take the United States' most atrocious act of the Twentieth Century. Pick any one of them, I don't care.

(For argument's sake, I'll pick Hiroshima + Nagasaki, the destruction of two cities in a country that attacked us, at a time when our only other option was a full-scale invasion.)

Does ANYBODY want to say that that act is equivalent to, say... the six million killed during the Nazi holocaust?

Or how about the 20+ million killed in the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin?

Anyone?


The only real American atrocity is slavery. But there are a few things worth noting: First, the institution of slavery existed in pretty much every civilization up to that point. Second, the U.S. showed itself willing to fight a war with ITSELF to purge this atrocity. Third, if it weren't for the efforts of Americans and other people living in free societies, we probably would not have concluded that slavery is, in fact, immoral.


Ultimately, our freedom as a people HAS kept us safe from things as horrendous as the Holocaust. One needs to look no further than to the fact that the Holocaust was SO hidden from the common German to see how dangerous the free flow of information really is.

Also note how morons and neo-Nazis continue to assert that the Holocaust never happened. Anyone know of anyone disputing the existence of American slavery - OR the dropping of the atomic bombs in World War II?

No? MY POINT EXACTLY.
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Old 07-08-2002, 01:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
You don't need to rent a DVD to see what's going on. Just watch the evening news. It's just as horrific much of the time.

We, in the western world nowadays really have no idea how good we have it.

If you want to feel blessed, next time you go to the gas station and the guy pumping your gas has a foreign accent, ask him where he's from. Don't be surprised when you hear he's a refugee from Bosnia who 3 years ago was either a doctor, lawyer or engineer living in big house in a comfy subdivision who, having survived, lost literally everything (including loved ones) and had to start over in a forein country.
Good pts Ali.
One pt the evening news has a way of santitizing the carnage/bloodshed, and watering it down. This DVD was a cold dose of REALITY.


'
This was a VERY good wake up call for me


Arun-

I agree -w/can shrink and degenerate to a subhuman form.
Im glad we have the freedom to choose our destiny -here in THIS country
We WONT get BUTCHERED if we oppose our govt.
Im also glad you have the freedom to practice guitar



Fizzing-
We also afforded the ppl being euecuted in the USA something other countries DO NOT OFFER..its called DUE PROCESS..:idea:

Peace
:idea:
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Old 07-08-2002, 04:15 AM   #13
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adamswildhoney: sorry, but your mother was wrong. in the EU you can speak out against your country, in australia/ new zealand too, and iīd wonder if there are not some other countries...

achtung bubba: america fought a civil war, not a war against itself. wasnīt it north against south, and north could "afford" to be against slavery because of more industry? feel free to correct me if my history lessons were wrong.
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Old 07-08-2002, 08:07 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
achtung bubba: america fought a civil war, not a war against itself. wasnīt it north against south, and north could "afford" to be against slavery because of more industry? feel free to correct me if my history lessons were wrong.
A civil war is effectively a war with itself.
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Old 07-08-2002, 08:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
adamswildhoney: sorry, but your mother was wrong. in the EU you can speak out against your country, in australia/ new zealand too, and iīd wonder if there are not some other countries...
ahem...Canada...Finland, Sweden, Norway, much of South America...the list goes on....
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


A civil war is effectively a war with itself.
Well about this we can discuss when we see each other
I am the opinion that a state is a construction. To say that a state fights war with itself is, in my opinion, incorrect, because a state canīt fight, but its soldiers fight and die for it. So this was an issue like soldiers from the north kill soldiers from the south and vice versa.

Now take a look at what picture you develop in your head when you hear "soldiers killed soldiers" and "a state fights itself". The second example is much easier to hear, isnīt it?

This is how propaganda functions.

You could compare it with the usage of phrases like "The economy makes this and that", or "Capitalism is responsible for..."
In reality, there are always persons standing behind that. There are people who direct economy, there are actors in whatever system, see?

Donīt underestimate this point, it is important. Because a state, or economy, or things in general, canīt be held (or only under very difficult circumstances) responsible for the damages they cause. People can. In our society there is more and more anonymosity, this is why I am so picky about this.

Hope you see my point of view.
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:24 AM   #17
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hehe, I can see your point. And I look forward to discussing it over a nice cup of coffee or beer this fall.
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Old 07-08-2002, 11:45 AM   #18
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In the American Civil War, part of the nation tried to secede and form its own nation, and the other part tried to prevent that from happening - and the conflict came to violence.

To say that this is incorrect because a nation is merely a construction and is incapable of fighting is, well, bewildering.

You say that "a state canīt fight, but its soldiers fight and die for it," and nobody disputes this. But also very few misunderstand the point that is being made.

Basically, I used a METAPHOR.

I mean, I've seen threads discuss WWII, and state things that the U.S., England, and the Soviet Union fought Germany and Japan. Does anyone interrupt THOSE threads to note that Germany didn't technically fight, that Germany's soldiers did?

No - because to do so is silly.

Quote:
Now take a look at what picture you develop in your head when you hear "soldiers killed soldiers" and "a state fights itself". The second example is much easier to hear, isnīt it?

This is how propaganda functions.
"A state fights itself" is a metaphor, something that most people are very aware of and that most people don't object to.

When somebody says "England fought Germany" and somebody else says "English soldiers fought German soldiers," I get pretty much the same picture: military battles. If anything, the former brings the idea from a mere skermish to a full-scale war, something supported by each nation's government and general population.

And to suggest that what I said is propaganda is idiotic.


(While I'm at this point, note that you yourself used a metaphor: "look at what picture develops in your head." If you consider THIS statement with the same literal mind you applied to my statement, you'd have to call your own words foolish. After all, you can't literally see anything within your own mind, and no mental image develops the same way a photograph develops.)
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Old 07-08-2002, 01:31 PM   #19
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No Bubba, I am still not your opinion.

First, let us be peaceful, calm down. I was not trying to accuse you personally of using propaganda, I stated that this is exactly how (mild, but effective if it is repeated over and over)propaganda functions.

Then, I think you didnīt get my point. I was not trying to explain that only logic arguments may be applied, and that everything has to be stripped down to logic. I was pointing out that my personal opinion is that you have to be careful IN WHICH CASE you use your beloved metaphors.

Yes, maybe "a picture in the head" is a metaphor. But whether I use this metaphor, or I say, "look what thoughts you connect with those two descriptions" leads to a meaningless discussion.
Because those things mean the same.

But when you say: -

Second, the U.S. showed itself willing to fight a war with ITSELF (oh my god! also the biiiiig letters) to purge this atrocity -

instead of:

- In the American Civil war, part of the nation.... etc. -

There IS a difference, and not only the difference of using a sweet little metaphor. With your first description, I connect the thought that, well... ummm... in every nation slavery has happened, but we were, in compare to others, also such a GREAT nation that we fought against our blood, or even better "that the country fought against itself". Like a poor Uncle Sam scratching his head, and then thanks to God finally going the right way.

Your second description sounds more down to the ground, more real. Stay there, it fits you better.

And if weīre already at it: Who are you to mention what is equivalent to what? How can you be so blind to compare pain with other pain? Oh, I also did this - one time - , but I mentioned my mistake beforehand, giving everyone a chance to see that in reality this kind of argument is shaky. Who do you believe to be, to freely compare millions of deaths to other millions of deaths?

Now, if you want to call ME bewildering and stupid, thatīs ok. YOU ARE THE JUDGE.

(Note that I am not accusing you, I am just stating my opinion, because you canīt accuse a judge, can you?)
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Old 07-08-2002, 02:05 PM   #20
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


This is how propaganda functions.



People.
Let this be understood-

There has been alot of talk...( about this thread).
Maybe TOO MUCH TALK.
This THREAD is NOT a PROPAGANDA THREAD.
This thread is...a thread about-
contemplation
reflection
and
aprreciation
of our colllective blessings..:idea:

DB9
:idea:
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