Surgeon General Says Bush Politics Trumped Science. Duh.

[U2democrat]

Well if you can wait 20 years or so, maybe I can help make the democratic party one of hope and substance again.

 

[phillyfan26]

The two-party system sucks.

 

[indra]

Observing the Democrats and Republicans from the outside, it becomes quickly apparent that they are both useless. One may be more corrupt and disgusting than the other, but still. Very disheartening indeed.

Oh it looks the same from inside the country too. Utterly delightful.

 

[martha]

Observing the Democrats and Republicans from the outside, it becomes quickly apparent that they are both useless. One may be more corrupt and disgusting than the other, but still. Very disheartening indeed.

Indeed. And yet viable options are so limited that one is nearly forced to go along with Democrats just to try to keep things reasonable. But with a limited definition of reasonable.

 

[deep]

Observing the Democrats and Republicans from the outside, it becomes quickly apparent that they are both useless. One may be more corrupt and disgusting than the other, but still. Very disheartening indeed.

The above message has been read and approved by Karl Rove. (Please, pass it on.)

 

[anitram]

Oh please, that's such a cop out, deep.

Is there no accountability anymore?

 

[deep]

I don't think you support Bush and Rove

But I do believe that Rove would like people to be discouraged and think both parties are equally useless

Why?
Because he knows his core voters will always vote.

look what they are doing with the Judicial Department.





and with Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court the country will be a lot different than if we had a Dem appointing Judges



Do you really there is no difference?

 

[U2democrat]

In terms of how the game is played, sure, both parties are the same (actually the Republicans are better at playing it). But no matter what, any political party would play the game as well, if you have 2, 3, 50, etc. It's all politics, and it's been that way for thousands of years.

However, as deep stated, there are fundamental difference in beliefs, and just the slightest changes i.e. the Supreme Court show the true difference in the parties.

So, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Whig whatever! There will always be political parties who fall into the "same" partisanship, some years it will be worse than others, but who says partisanship is all that bad? It gets one side's agenda through, but it's only bad if its not what you agree with

All we on the left can do on this point is try to get the Dems a little more power so they can start making a real difference without the GOP blocking them. If you're so disillusioned with both parties and refuse to vote (which isn't the case for most in here, I hope), then you're only hurting yourself.

Nothing is getting done because Washington and the country are split. It's people banging heads. However, if one side were given the edge, a lot can get done. The Republicans got a lot done 2001-2005, but it's not what many of us here wanted. So people complain about both parties. If the Democrats were given that same edge, then we would see the reverse.


/off my soapbox.

I'm sure people will pick this post apart and criticize me, whatever. This is the way politics is, it has its ups and downs, and the only way to make a difference is to be involved.

 

[CTU2fan]

I find a lot of left-leaning people feel this way. I don't find many conservatives who feel this way although that may be more because I don't know many conservatives anymore.

Good point. The Dems have been drifting to the right for awhile now, I'd assume to swing more moderates to their side...of course the DP was never left enough for my liking but it's really gotten bad.

I think you'll find that less with conservatives because the Republicans have done a better job staying in touch with the far-right than the Dems have with the far-(or further)left. I think the Republican Party feels it has to cater to that base or risk losing those votes; the Dems don't seem to have that fear.

 

[Irvine511]

Why?
Because he knows his core voters will always vote.

unless their choices are between a pro-choice, several times divorced adulterer who has no relationship with his children, dresses in drag frequently, and after being booted out of his house by his ex-wife moved in with a gay couple and their Shiz-Tsu.

or, an as-yet-not-running former Senator, known for laziness, who -- if the rumors where i (and Adam Nagourney) get our hair cut are to be believed -- has a "wide-ranging, colorful" sex life that often includes happy participants from either gender.

but good point on the courts. who knew Roberts would wind up to the *right* of Alito!

 

[anitram]

Do you really there is no difference?

I think there is a difference in some ideology, obviously. But there is not much of a difference in getting things done.

This Democratic Congress is 100% useless. The Constitution provides them with inherent contempt powers. Why are they not using them today? They are very "disappointed" that Bush has directed Miers et al. not to appear and/or testify. Who gives a shit if they're disappointed?? It's just one example of them abdicating their duties for reasons that don't even make any sense to me.

 

[DrTeeth]

This thread has Terri Schiavo written all over it

 

[Irvine511]

This Democratic Congress is 100% useless. The Constitution provides them with inherent contempt powers. Why are they not using them today? They are very "disappointed" that Bush has directed Miers et al. not to appear and/or testify. Who gives a shit if they're disappointed?? It's just one example of them abdicating their duties for reasons that don't even make any sense to me.

it also shows the extent to which the present adminstration refuses to be governed by the laws.

a dictatorship would be so much easier.

 

[martha]

The two-party system sucks.

But the fragile coalition governments of parliamentarian Europe don't seem all that much better.

 

[anitram]

But the fragile coalition governments of parliamentarian Europe don't seem all that much better.

I don't know...we have 3 national parties in Canada + a 4th major party that runs only in Quebec (but bags enough seats to be significant) and a newly emerging Green party and the system works FAR better than the one in the US, in my opinion. It is really not akin to the European system, and the government is not a fragile coalition of small parties.

 

[Irvine511]

considering how high the "stakes" are with the US, there's a stability to the two party system that i do think is advantageous. it prevents a Hitler-like figure from an obscure party from rising to power and suddenly being in control of the most powerful army in history and the engine of the world economy. sure, we might get an idiot like Bush, but we're not about to have a neo-fascist like Le Pen, for example.

also, the executive is given more power than a PM precisely because the US Constitution wants an executive who can act quickly and decisively and not get bogged down in parlimentary proceedings and laborious coalition building. positives and negatives to this, but that's the system of government.

drawbacks? yes, a million of them. but considering that nearly everything the US does reverberates around the world, and the enormous responsibilites that are placed (fairly or unfairly) on the US's shoulders, i'd rather the stability. an effective third party is appealing, like in the UK, but i can't see a European model working in the US.

 

[anitram]

This Democratic Congress is 100% useless. The Constitution provides them with inherent contempt powers.

Giving credit where it's due:

A House panel has cleared the way for contempt proceedings against former White House counsel Harriet Miers.

Let's hope they continue on this path.

 

[Irvine511]