Suicide

[tiny dancer]

It's so easy to say it is selfish act. If you have never gone through depression ( and I have) you have no idea what it is like. Yes depression is a chemical imbalance, and if it gets so bad you just want out. And yes I got help thanks to medication and counseling. I would not wish it on anyone.

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by TheU2:

I think its very, very selfish.

CK

then you are very, very selfish yourself because you are not thinking of the suicidal person's feelings, but of your own feelings of loss and self pity for having "lost a friend/mate/relative etc)".
to take your own possessions is certainly not selfish.

[TheU2]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:

then you are very, very selfish yourself because you are not thinking of the suicidal person's feelings, but of your own feelings of loss and self pity for having "lost a friend/mate/relative etc)".
to take your own possessions is certainly not selfish.

Their feelings? Fuck their feelings....they are dead.

CK



[This message has been edited by TheU2 (edited 12-18-2001).]

[CannibalisticArtist]

i meant before they die obviously.
you know improperly labelling them selfish would only make them that bit more suicidal.

[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-18-2001).]

[TheU2]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
i meant before they die obviously.
you know improperly labelling them selfish would only make them that bit more suicidal.

[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-18-2001).]

I didn't label suicidal people selfish. Just people who actually did it.

[IvanClaytonJnr]

if i had a courage , i 'd probably did it , but the main thing is : my other active-live part is fighting and winning ( step by step ) , i can't do this right now , cause a lot of bad feelings will be in my parents , relatives , friends , and other people who knows me::::;; minds ;;;;;;
and i got good waves from others

[Holy John]

Its selfish, yes, but does selfish is necessarily a bad thing ? Its the most personnal decision of a person. This world is fucked-up. You can kill someone (i.e.: legal guns), but you cannot decide to kill yourself cos it's selfish. It's the most personnal decision of a 'normal' person ('normal' i.e.: in a occidental way, I don't know about the other cultures).

Is it selfish ? Yes. Is it selfish in a bad way ? Not always... its a minority.
I never felt the act of my friend did was selfish just to say "fuck you" to all of his familly, friends and her lover. It was a selfish act, cos otherwize he would have drown the world. It's certainly not stupid. I refuse to admit that suicide is stupid.

Cheers

------------------
United Nations : www.un.org - UNICEF (United Nations Children's Fund) : www.unicef.org
UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) : www.unesco.org

«Je suis le dernier homme. Contre tous, je me défendrai...»
"I am the last man. Against all, I shall defend myself..."
- 'Rhinocéros', Ionesco

"Eternity is a long time, especially towards the end.» - Woody Allen

[TheU2]

Originally posted by Holy John:
Its selfish, yes, but does selfish is necessarily a bad thing ? Its the most personnal decision of a person. This world is fucked-up. You can kill someone (i.e.: legal guns), but you cannot decide to kill yourself cos it's selfish. It's the most personnal decision of a 'normal' person ('normal' i.e.: in a occidental way, I don't know about the other cultures).

Is it selfish ? Yes. Is it selfish in a bad way ? Not always... its a minority.
I never felt the act of my friend did was selfish just to say "fuck you" to all of his familly, friends and her lover. It was a selfish act, cos otherwize he would have drown the world. It's certainly not stupid. I refuse to admit that suicide is stupid.

Cheers

I disagree. Suicide is stupid.

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by TheU2:

I didn't label suicidal people selfish. Just people who actually did it.

it's a lost cause with you, but that's ok, it's your opinion.
i suppose going into battle knowing that you probably would die could be also considered suicide, how do you think the families of the army feel about their loved ones going into battle? are they(the soldiers who died) selfish too, because they GAVE their life away for their country and what they stood for? oh but they TOOk their live away form their loved ones(friends and family)
it's a complicated situation, you cannot put it in nice neat catgeory.

[CannibalisticArtist]

can you enlighten us TheU2, on why you think suicide is "stupid" and "selfish"? and please use some new arguments, because quite frankly, i've heard them all

[TheU2]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:

i suppose going into battle knowing that you probably would die could be also considered suicide, how do you think the families of the army feel about their loved ones going into battle? are they(the soldiers who died) selfish too, because they GAVE their life away for their country and what they stood for? oh but they TOOk their live away form their loved ones(friends and family)
it's a complicated situation, you cannot put it in nice neat catgeory.

[/QUOTE]


I don't think people going into battle think they are going to die. And no, they aren't being selfish. They are risking their lives so that we can live in a free country. In fact, going to battle must be the most selfless act.

You're arguement is full of holes. Take a logic class.

CK

[TheU2]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
can you enlighten us TheU2, on why you think suicide is "stupid" and "selfish"? and please use some new arguments, because quite frankly, i've heard them all

Why is it stupid? Its a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Why is it selfish? It wrecks everyone you left behind.

CK

[IvanClaytonJnr]

common TheU2 , go to sleep , you're in a bad mood today

[TheU2]

Originally posted by IvanClaytonJnr:
common TheU2 , go to sleep , you're in a bad mood today

CK

[Zoo Schabow]

Ivan and TheU2,

Whatever problems you guys have with each other is not my business and I will stay out of it. But please don't invade perfectly innocent threads like mine in EYKIW. That did not make me happy.

I'm not going to act like I'm an angel or anything(cause I'm obviously not ), but please use better judgement. I don't know if the point of your bickering is to make each other look bad, but it's working. You both look bad.

It's Christmas time. Why don't you just put it aside and try to get along?

------------------
THE DUCK HAS DIED

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by TheU2:
Why is it stupid? Its a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Why is it selfish? It wrecks everyone you left behind.

CK

i said new arguments. give me something worth debating here.
you're simply rehashing the thread, read ABOVE your first reply to this thread.
Take a reading class.


[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-18-2001).]

[TheU2]

Originally posted by CannibalisticArtist:
i said new arguments. give me something worth debating here.
you're simply rehashing the thread, read ABOVE your first reply to this thread.
Take a reading class.


[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-18-2001).]

Nothing to debate? Debate with me how suicide isn't a permanent solution and how it doesn't affect the people who loved and cared for the person.

Selfishness is defined as someone who does something only for the benefit of themselves. Suicide does not benefit the people left behind. It wrecks them. A person who committs suicide is a coward. It take a courageous person to have the power to overcome obstacles.

CK

PS I read the post above my first response

[This message has been edited by TheU2 (edited 12-18-2001).]

[TheU2]

And please explain to me how a person who goes to fight for his country is selfish.

CK

[TheU2]

Originally posted by Zoo Schabow:
Ivan and TheU2,

Whatever problems you guys have with each other is not my business and I will stay out of it. But please don't invade perfectly innocent threads like mine in EYKIW. That did not make me happy.

I'm not going to act like I'm an angel or anything(cause I'm obviously not ), but please use better judgement. I don't know if the point of your bickering is to make each other look bad, but it's working. You both look bad.

It's Christmas time. Why don't you just put it aside and try to get along?

Drop me an email or IM me.

Ck

u2_kennedy@yahoo.com
ckennedy77

[CannibalisticArtist]

Originally posted by TheU2:
And please explain to me how a person who goes to fight for his country is selfish.

CK

i don't think it's selfish myself, i don't even think suicide is selfish, but i said that to illustrate your flawed logic, that if a person decides to risk HIS/HER own life knowingly and possibly die(nevermind the circumstance), then it is selfish on his/her part for the people that love him/her.
can you not look at it from the distressed person's point of view? it's his/her life, he/she can do whatever he/she wants with it. if he/she wants to kill himself then he/she can, because he life is not a public commodity that he/she chose to keep all to himself/herself and not let other people access it.
you imply that people own each other physically and mentally. that is simply not true. if the so called "loved ones" of the dead suicidal person, feel like they have been robbed, then i can wholheartedly say that the person is probably better off dead, the people never loved him/her , they just loved how he/she made THEM feel, and that is utter selfishness on their part.

[This message has been edited by CannibalisticArtist (edited 12-18-2001).]