SPLIT--> California's Proposition 8 on Same-Sex Marriage

[A_Wanderer]

Same-sex marriage most certainly is.

But then again, relatively speaking, so are liberal democracies.

Civil unions (equivalent to marriage in all but name) seems to me a reasonable compromise between religion values and postmodernism -- tradition and individual rights.

There shouldn't be a compromise of religious values in the law, it is an issue of equal protection and the state not elevating one form of consensual relationship between two people above others, it doesn't open the door to polygamy. That doesn't seem to matter to you, ask if it is the role of government to arbitrate on the legitimacy of gay relationships?

 

[Varitek]

I am so nervous about this, and I am pretty sure that by the time I start work at 7am, not to return online until 5pm, we won't know anything about the result. (keep in mind i'm on european time.)

 

[maycocksean]

I feel that offending bigots is a valuable tool, in terms of winning hearts and minds perhaps driving reactionaries to expose their stupidity can sway more clear headed undecided individuals than moderate and considered arguments which are frankly wasted on haters.

I know you think that, but I think you're wrong. Not least because you may misjudge someone as a reactionary and a hater when in fact they're not, and thus alienate them rather than win them over. I'm arguing that most people don't fall into the category of hard-core idealogue and can be convinced, but not by being insulted. You're sharp guy--a lot smarter than me, I'd say--but you're gauge of human nature is sometimes a little off.

 

[Varitek]

i am nervous. has anybody heard anything vaguely reliable lately about polls?

 

[martha]

It's only 4 o'clock here. There are 4 more hours till the polls close.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I know you think that, but I think you're wrong. Not least because you may misjudge someone as a reactionary and a hater when in fact they're not, and thus alienate them rather than win them over. I'm arguing that most people don't fall into the category of hard-core idealogue and can be convinced, but not by being insulted. You're sharp guy--a lot smarter than me, I'd say--but you're gauge of human nature is sometimes a little off.

If you can get support over 50%, even if it means alienating a large minority, that seems fine by the numbers.

 

[maycocksean]

If you can get support over 50%, even if it means alienating a large minority, that seems fine by the numbers.

Well, we'll see what happens in California. But when it's this close you don't want to be alienating people who might change their minds by ridiculing them.

 

[diamond]

Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.

Marriage has a meaning.
Civil Unions have a meaning.

Both include and have the same status.

Next case.

<>

 

[maycocksean]

Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.


<>

There is no hyphen in gay marriage.

Just like there's not in interracial marriage.

 

[diamond]

Fine, an adjective isn't needed before the word-it connotes a sacrament between 2 parties of the opposite sex.

<>

 

[A_Wanderer]

Can straight people get a civil union?

 

[Varitek]

does anyone have any info on this? any californians have a local website to recommend?

 

[phillyfan26]

Fine, an adjective isn't needed before the word-it connotes a sacrament between 2 parties of the opposite sex.

<>

Narrow minded view that disrespects a segment of the population.

 

[martha]

does anyone have any info on this? any californians have a local website to recommend?

I just checked at cbs2.com - Election Results and all they had was the two percent most likely absentee (read: conservative) votes. Yes was ahead, but the polls only closed 20 minutes ago.

 

[martha]

Fine, an adjective isn't needed before the word-it connotes a sacrament between 2 parties of the opposite sex.

Then we can settle on just using the word marriage for something so joyous and special.

 

[corianderstem]

Okay, now we turn our eyes to California ....

 

[martha]

Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.

Marriage has a meaning.
Civil Unions have a meaning.

Both include and have the same status.

Next case.

Exactly. Now they're both marriages.

 

[phillyfan26]

There are numerous states with gay marriage bans being voted for.

 

[BVS]

Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.

Marriage has a meaning.
Civil Unions have a meaning.

Both include and have the same status.

Next case.

<>

Everything in this post is either wrong or misguided.

There is no hyphen. Do straight couples not have civil unions? And no, in many cases civil unions do not have the same status.

I'm not sure where you get this type of misinformation or misguidedness, but it saddens me that it's this type of misinformation and misguidedness that steers these types of propositions.

 

[phillyfan26]

Florida is most likely going to ban gay marriages. 85% are reporting and the ban is winning.

 

[phillyfan26]

With 4% reporting:

Yes - 61%
No - 39%

 

[corianderstem]

I actually hadn't heard of the other states voting on similar things. That blows.

 

[phillyfan26]

Arizona, California, and Florida have propositions for banning gay marriage, and Arkansas has one for banning gays from adopting children.

All four bans are currently winning.

 

[dazzlingamy]

oh thats terrible....absolutely sad.

 

[phillyfan26]

Arizona's has been called. They are banning gay marriage.

 

[phillyfan26]

6% reporting.

Yes: 55%
No: 45%

 

[corianderstem]

Fuckers.

 

[phillyfan26]

Other proposition news....

Colorado has voted against a measure defining life as beginning at conception.

MA voted down a bill to repeal its state income tax.

Nebraska voted for ending affirmative action.

Michigan voted for allowing the use of medical marijuana.

Maryland voted for allowing video lotteries.

 

[phillyfan26]

8% reporting.

Yes: 54%
No: 46%

 

[phillyfan26]

More proposition news:

Arizona voted down a second proposition, this one imposing stronger penalties on business owners and their involvement with illegal immigrants.