SPLIT--> California's Proposition 8 on Same-Sex Marriage - Page 29 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-04-2008, 01:53 PM   #561
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Is someone trying to generate some laws which deny rights to Christians which others already have ?
That's funny, prop 8 only exists because the California Supreme Court decided to "generate some laws."

Quote:
Denying someone a right you have because they're different to you in some way makes you a bigot.
[Phone] (ring, ring)
It's Dearborn, Michigan on the line. They want to know if you're a bigot?
__________________

INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:57 PM   #562
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
That's funny, prop 8 only exists because the California Supreme Court decided to "generate some laws."
Oh wow, you mean judges did their job and determined if something was legal ? Where WILL the insanity stop ?????



Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post

[Phone] (ring, ring)
It's Dearborn, Michigan on the line. They want to know if you're a bigot?
I'd better ask myself : "Would I deny someone a right I already have because that person is different to me in some way ? "

Hmm, if I answer 'yes' that DOES make me a bigot......
__________________

toscano is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:59 PM   #563
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post

What makes anti-Christian bigotry acceptable if anti-gay bigotry is not?
I'd strip half the churches of their tax exempt status immediately, and frankly I wouldn't mind stripping the other half either.

But that's the difference between us, I just think they're freeloading while preaching bigotry, I am not trying to change the tax code.
anitram is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:22 PM   #564
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Oh wow, you mean judges did their job and determined if something was legal.
All laws being legal by definition, supreme court judges rule on their constitutionality. Theoretically using the constitution as their guide rather than personal political agendas. Theoretically.
Quote:
Where WILL the insanity stop ?????
One can hope at the borders of CA, MA and CT.

Quote:
I'd better ask myself : "Would I deny someone a right I already have because that person is different to me in some way ? "

Hmm, if I answer 'yes' that DOES make me a bigot......
I'll leave the epithet throwing to those so inclined.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:24 PM   #565
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
All laws being legal by definition, supreme court judges rule on their constitutionality. Theoretically using the constitution as their guide rather than personal political agendas. Theoretically.

One can hope at the borders of CA, MA and CT.



I'll leave the epithet throwing to those so inclined.
That would be the non-bigots then ?
toscano is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:30 PM   #566
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
All laws being legal by definition, supreme court judges rule on their constitutionality. Theoretically using the constitution as their guide rather than personal political agendas. Theoretically.
Just because you disagree with a legal opinion doesn't make it incorrect nor does it by definition make it exclusively political.

Shocking concept, I know.
anitram is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:30 PM   #567
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
That's funny, prop 8 only exists because the California Supreme Court decided to "generate some laws."
No. They applied the California Constitution to the law, and it didn't quite fit with the Equal Protection clause we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
What makes anti-Christian bigotry acceptable if anti-gay bigotry is not?
It isn't. If Prop 8 prohibited marriage between Christians, there would still be a No on 8 sign in my front yard.
martha is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 03:41 PM   #568
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
And sometimes it's just name calling. Not embracing and condoning EVERY behavior, belief or worldview that comes along does not make one a bigot or a hater.


being gay isn't any one of these things.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #569
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
being gay isn't any one of these things.
Same-sex marriage most certainly is.

But then again, relatively speaking, so are liberal democracies.

Civil unions (equivalent to marriage in all but name) seems to me a reasonable compromise between religion values and postmodernism -- tradition and individual rights.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:59 PM   #570
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Civil unions (equivalent to marriage in all but name) seems to me a reasonable compromise between religion values and postmodernism -- tradition and individual rights.
Separate but equal was ruled unconstitutional. You never seem to understand that.
martha is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:18 PM   #571
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Same-sex marriage most certainly is.

But then again, relatively speaking, so are liberal democracies.

Civil unions (equivalent to marriage in all but name) seems to me a reasonable compromise between religion values and postmodernism -- tradition and individual rights.
There shouldn't be a compromise of religious values in the law, it is an issue of equal protection and the state not elevating one form of consensual relationship between two people above others, it doesn't open the door to polygamy. That doesn't seem to matter to you, ask if it is the role of government to arbitrate on the legitimacy of gay relationships?
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:26 PM   #572
Blue Crack Addict
 
Varitek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 06:21 AM
I am so nervous about this, and I am pretty sure that by the time I start work at 7am, not to return online until 5pm, we won't know anything about the result. (keep in mind i'm on european time.)
Varitek is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:50 PM   #573
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,892
Local Time: 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
I feel that offending bigots is a valuable tool, in terms of winning hearts and minds perhaps driving reactionaries to expose their stupidity can sway more clear headed undecided individuals than moderate and considered arguments which are frankly wasted on haters.

I know you think that, but I think you're wrong. Not least because you may misjudge someone as a reactionary and a hater when in fact they're not, and thus alienate them rather than win them over. I'm arguing that most people don't fall into the category of hard-core idealogue and can be convinced, but not by being insulted. You're sharp guy--a lot smarter than me, I'd say--but you're gauge of human nature is sometimes a little off.
maycocksean is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:55 PM   #574
Blue Crack Addict
 
Varitek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 06:21 AM
i am nervous. has anybody heard anything vaguely reliable lately about polls?
Varitek is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:57 PM   #575
Blue Crack Supplier
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,555
Local Time: 04:21 AM
It's only 4 o'clock here. There are 4 more hours till the polls close.
martha is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:01 PM   #576
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maycocksean View Post
I know you think that, but I think you're wrong. Not least because you may misjudge someone as a reactionary and a hater when in fact they're not, and thus alienate them rather than win them over. I'm arguing that most people don't fall into the category of hard-core idealogue and can be convinced, but not by being insulted. You're sharp guy--a lot smarter than me, I'd say--but you're gauge of human nature is sometimes a little off.
If you can get support over 50%, even if it means alienating a large minority, that seems fine by the numbers.
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:35 PM   #577
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,892
Local Time: 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
If you can get support over 50%, even if it means alienating a large minority, that seems fine by the numbers.
Well, we'll see what happens in California. But when it's this close you don't want to be alienating people who might change their minds by ridiculing them.
maycocksean is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 08:30 PM   #578
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.

Marriage has a meaning.
Civil Unions have a meaning.

Both include and have the same status.

Next case.

<>
diamond is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:09 PM   #579
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,892
Local Time: 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Why does one set of ppl take it upon themselves that another set has to hyphenate a word, as in gay-marriage.


<>
There is no hyphen in gay marriage.

Just like there's not in interracial marriage.
maycocksean is offline  
Old 11-04-2008, 09:18 PM   #580
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:21 AM
Fine, an adjective isn't needed before the word-it connotes a sacrament between 2 parties of the opposite sex.

<>
__________________

diamond is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×