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Old 11-02-2008, 07:27 PM   #521
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This is their attempt to gain credibility as "one of them" with the evangelical Christians, but they'll always just be regarded as a "cult" by them, and as institutionalized bigotry by everyone else


Mittens '12!!!
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:42 AM   #522
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one of my favorite blogger/columnists had this to say:

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If you have any California friends or family who are still thinking they're going to vote yes on Propositon 8, send them this post and let them know that what they will do is hurt thousands of people with their vote. The lie is that we want to indoctrinate children, when the truth is that we want to protect our own children. I don't have kids of my own but I know many gay parents in this state who do--there are over 50,000 kids in California with gay parents--and those families will be harmed by Prop 8. If that child needs a guardian to act on his or her behalf and the sole legal guardian isn't nearby, then the legal guardian's non-legal partner has no right to make decisions on the child's behalf. The child is the one who suffers.

The other lie is that we already have the same legal protections with domestic partnerships. The truth is that we don't--not on a state level and especially not on the federal level. And domestic partnerships, in practice, simply don't come with the same institutional weight as legal marriage. When it hits the fan and you need to be taken seriously as your partner's spokesperson, in an emergency situation or a medical situation, simply saying, "I'm his registered domestic partner" will get you a blank stare quite often.

But the biggest lie is that our relationships don't matter, that they're not the same as the ones heterosexuals have, that somehow it's okay to try to control us and to make our legal rights a matter for public consensus. If you feel that way then what you're really saying is that we're not as human as you are, that it's okay to treat entire groups of other human beings as though they aren't as good as you. And if you think your religious beliefs taught you that this was okay, then you haven't been paying very much attention in church.

Or maybe you have. Maybe you go to a church that preaches this kind of thing. And if that's the case then I want to remind you that since your religion doesn't apply to me at all, I'm not supposed to have to be governed by it.

Don't erase my marriage tomorrow. You know it's the wrong thing to do.
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:29 PM   #523
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Holy shit.

Log out and go to the main forums page. It's lousy with Yes on 8 ads.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:47 PM   #524
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Fucking skywriters over my house right now.

Not the cheap, one-plane kind. No. Catholics and Mormons have money to burn. These are the expensive, six-plane skywriters.

Why didn't the Klan think of this 40 years ago?
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:49 PM   #525
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I'm embarrassed on behalf of all these people.

There's a reason why my brother and I stopped going to the Church in which we were raised. Well, there are multiple reasons, but this is certainly one of them.
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:49 PM   #526
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Fucking skywriters over my house right now.

Not the cheap, one-plane kind. No. Catholics and Mormons have money to burn. These are the expensive, six-plane skywriters.

Why didn't the Klan think of this 40 years ago?

You have got to be kidding???
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Old 11-03-2008, 05:51 PM   #527
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Fucking skywriters over my house right now.

Not the cheap, one-plane kind. No. Catholics and Mormons have money to burn. These are the expensive, six-plane skywriters.

Why didn't the Klan think of this 40 years ago?
just individuals "voting their conscience"...........no church support....none...no no....of course not......

I pulled a few yes on 8 flyers out of the ground near my work today and someone actually stopped and thanked me, there's hope yet......
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:11 PM   #528
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Skywriters??!?

If that were a comedy show skit, it would be funny...
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:13 PM   #529
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And over northern Orange County, where it's a toss-up.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:33 PM   #530
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I saw a neighbor around the block with a No on 8 sign on their lawn. They were also taking masking tape to their car and writing out 'No on 8' on their windows



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Old 11-03-2008, 07:42 PM   #531
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I pray that somewhere, God is taking really good notes.


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36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



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Now the yes-on-8 bigots
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anitram:bigoted people
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anitram:a skanky ho. But hey, I guess she liked dicks

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toscano:regarded as a "cult" by them
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toscano:You're a bigot Diamond



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Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.






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Old 11-03-2008, 07:53 PM   #532
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Judging Others
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.






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<>
bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Calling someone a bigot who IS a bigot is merely stating a fact.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:59 PM   #533
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Calling someone a bigot who IS a bigot is merely stating a fact.

That may be true. But it's unlikely you'll change their minds.

I think the charges of racist, bigot, and yes even homophobe are not partiuclarly useful (even if true). Someone posted a great video in FYM awhile back where this guy talks about the difference between calling someone a racist and in pointing out that they've said something racist and pointing out how much more productive the latter is.

I guess part of it is I really believe that 99.9% of us harbor bigoted attitudes of some sort.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:01 PM   #534
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That may be true. But it's unlikely you'll change their minds.

I think the charges of racist, bigot, and yes even homophobe are not partiuclarly useful (even if true). Someone posted a great video in FYM awhile back where this guy talks about the difference between calling someone a racist and in pointing out that they've said something racist and pointing out how much more productive the latter is.

I guess part of it is I really believe that 99.9% of us harbor bigoted attitudes of some sort.
Maybe so, but if one is brazen enough to put it on display one ought to be prepared to be called on it.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:02 PM   #535
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I guess part of it is I really believe that 99.9% of us harbor bigoted attitudes of some sort.
That may be so.

But 99.9% of us aren't trying to codify our bigotry in statute.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #536
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I think Sean was thinking in terms of the possibility of changing minds rather than taking a stand only.

For better and for worse, a civil rights movement needs to do both.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #537
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That may be so.

But 99.9% of us aren't trying to codify our bigotry in statute.
True. All I am saying is that if we're going convince people to stop trying to codify their bigotry in law then starting by calling them bigots probably isn't going to help. It might make us feel better but won't do much to further our point of view.

I mean, have you ever met anyone, no matter how bigoted and hate-filled who would actually admit to being a bigot? "Well, when you put it like that--you're right. I really AM a hate filled bigot?" Doesn't happen.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:15 PM   #538
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True. All I am saying is that if we're going convince people to stop trying to codify their bigotry in law then starting by calling them bigots probably isn't going to help. It might make us feel better but won't do much to further our point of view.
That only works if you believe that coddling these people and allowing special leeway for their religious bigotry is going to magically transform them. I don't believe that is the case, so we may as well call a spade a spade.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:26 PM   #539
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That only works if you believe that coddling these people and allowing special leeway for their religious bigotry is going to magically transform them. I don't believe that is the case, so we may as well call a spade a spade.
My daughter owns a bible, she is "no on 8", and she pointed this out to me:

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you."
[Matthew 7:12.]

Did the Latter-Day-Bigots, the Roman-bigots and the Evangelical bigots ALL miss the "everything" ????
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #540
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when i was called a defender of child molestation because i somehow have not been more outspoken on the subject by not releasing my own youtube denunciations of sex tourism in Thailand, then i felt as if calling that person was a bigot was entirely appropriate.

here, in FYM, since i "know" the few people who disagree with me on this issue, i feel perfectly comfortable saying to them that they are bigots when it comes to homosexuality. there's no way around it. it's absolutely bigoted to say that, always and in all ways, a heterosexual relationship is superior to a homosexual relationship, just as it's bigoted to say that there is only one kind of acceptable family.

however, in the broad sense, sean is absolutely correct.
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