'Spiritual warfare' looms

[anitram]

By DOUG SAUNDERS
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Washington is trying to portray its battle as one of liberation, not conquest, but Iraq is about to be invaded by thousands of U.S. evangelical missionaries who say they are bent on a "spiritual warfare" campaign to convert the country's Muslims to Christianity.

Among the largest aid groups preparing to provide humanitarian assistance to Iraqis ravaged by the war are a number of Christian charities based in the southern United States that make no secret of their desire to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and win over Muslim souls.

The largest of these is the Southern Baptist Convention, an ardent supporter of the war as an opportunity to bring Christianity to the Middle East. It says it has 25,000 trained evangelists ready to enter Iraq.

"That would [mean] a heart change would go on in that part of the world," Mark Liederbach of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary explained in a recent speech to the SBC. "That's what we need to be praying for. That's how a Christian wages spiritual warfare."

Such words have caused deep alarm among military and diplomatic authorities. Although Christian aid organizations have worked comfortably alongside secular groups in other conflicts, Muslims around the world are already suspicious of U.S. motives in Iraq, and the worry is that missionaries could reinforce the widespread popular belief that the war is really a "clash of civilizations" between Christians and Muslims.

Muslim groups say they believe the presence of evangelists is a sign that President George W. Bush is trying to impose his own evangelical Christianity on Muslims. It does not help that Mr. Bush became a born-again Christian in the 1980s with the assistance of Billy Graham, the founder of the SBC.

"This is creating a real serious problem of perception: Here we have an army invading Iraq, followed by a bunch of people who want to convert everyone to Christianity," said Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on Islamic-American Relations. "How's that going to look in the Muslim world? And how's it going to look that this guy says Muslims are evil and he's the guy who works with the President?"

Mr. Hooper was referring to Mr. Graham's son, Franklin, who runs the SBC. The younger Mr. Graham, who delivered the invocation at Mr. Bush's inauguration in 2001, has repeatedly gone on the record describing Islam as "wicked."

Mr. Graham has recently been more tolerant of Islam, but he has made it clear that the conversion of Muslims to Christianity is a goal for his volunteers.

"I believe as we work, God will always give us opportunities to tell others about His Son," he told the religious newsletter BeliefNet last week. "We are there to reach out to love them and to save them, and as a Christian, I do this in the name of Jesus Christ."

In response to criticism, many Christian aid groups, including Mr. Graham's, have toned down the religious messages in their work.

"We want to spread the message of Jesus Christ through outwork, by reaching out to people with humanitarian aid," said Sam Porter, disaster-relief director for the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, the largest of the SBC's aid groups. "We are not there to preach; we are on a predominantly humanitarian mission and we want to work as Good Samaritans ? we do our work with the love of Jesus Christ in our hearts."

In one major project, Baptist families have been asked to put together "gift of love" food boxes designed to provide a month's worth of basic nourishment to a family of five. "Please do not place any additional items/literature inside the box," the families are told. Mr. Porter, who runs the program, explained that this is to prevent them from being seen as missionary packages.

However, on the outside of each box will be a label bearing an Arabic translation of John 1:17: "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

While many evangelical aid workers are motivated by humanitarian desires, their mission statement makes it clear that they are required to attempt conversions: "It is the duty of every child of God to seek constantly to win the lost to Christ by verbal witness undergirded by a Christian lifestyle, and by other methods in harmony with the gospel of Christ."

 

[BVS]

These people are admirable and often have their hearts in the right place, but often are overzealous in their approach.

 

[melon]

Fanatics all around...

Melon

 

[Scarletwine]

And the military is still in town.

 

[joyfulgirl]

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

i will keep my mouth shut on how i feel about the Southern Baptists.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Oh c'mon...you're among friends. And I'm bored. Let's have it.

 

[pub crawler]

lol, you two are funny. *joins the mouth-shut brigade*

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

alright this is how i feel about them:




when i pass one of there many kingdoms around here -->


mind you being raised a catholic in the south meant i was not well received with the Southern Baptists in my community. i had friends tell me when i was younger that i was going to hell because i was catholic and if i joined their church i would be saved. needless to say mother did not allow me to remain friends with them.

we all know i am going to hell for being an active member on this site. lol

 

[melon]

mind you being raised a catholic in the south meant i was not well received with the Southern Baptists in my community. i had friends tell me when i was younger that i was going to hell because i was catholic and if i joined their church i would be saved.

And some people here wonder why I have / had a fairly negative opinion of fundamentalists and Southerners...

...although I've worked on the latter. It's unfair to categorize everyone in a region.

Melon

 

[joyfulgirl]

As a teenager growing up in rural Virginia, I always wished I was Catholic because they were drinking and having sex and playing guitars in church and basically seemed to be the only ones having any fun in my town. I gazed longingly at them in school.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

that is why we have confession. we can do this stuff, make others jealous and confess our sins away to cleanse our souls. lol

mind you i don't really have that many personal issues with the Southern Baptists here. i do have several good friends who are Southern Baptists but we have had our fair share of problems due to the churches we belong to. also dating around here was and still is tough when you are in the minority as far as religion goes. oh well thank god you yankees have come down here, you have provided some diversity to the religious makeup here.

 

[BVS]

I have an aunt who is Southern Baptist. She's probably about 60 years old or so. She danced for the first time in her life last year because the church had convinced her it was a sin for so long.

When I was youner she told me I would probably go to hell if I continued to listen to my Micheal Jackson Thriller album.

 

[Dreadsox]

OK...I will play devils advocate, since it seems everyone posting agrees.........

Why the heck shouldn't Christians want to go in and spread the good news? Isn't that what Jesus did? Isn't that what the New Testament tells us we should do as Christians?

(Questions asked for discussions sake, don't shoot me please)

 

[verte76]

I know about being Catholic in the South, although as an adult convert I didn't catch any flak or whatever as a kid. I suppose I'll join you in Hell for being on this site.

 

[BVS]

Like I said, I think most of them have their hearts in the right place, but their approach is often wrong. I don't mind them giving aid, or going over there to help in rebuilding the country. But I've often seen these situations where they go and try to cram their beliefs down their throats. I just don't want to see a group of Southern Baptists rubbing their hands together and licking their lips while they're thinking "here's a whole country of evil people we're going to bring salvation to." Yes Jesus "spread the word", but he did so by actions, he did so by answering the questions of the interested. He didn't walk up to the whores(I wanted an extreme example) and call them heathens and tell them they need to repent. You have to respect these people's beliefs, there's room in this world for many different religions.

 

[Dreadsox]

Like I said, I think most of them have their hearts in the right place, but their approach is often wrong. I don't mind them giving aid, or going over there to help in rebuilding the country. But I've often seen these situations where they go and try to cram their beliefs down their throats. I just don't want to see a group of Southern Baptists rubbing their hands together and licking their lips while they're thinking "here's a whole country of evil people we're going to bring salvation to." Yes Jesus "spread the word", but he did so by actions, he did so by answering the questions of the interested. He didn't walk up to the whores(I wanted an extreme example) and call them heathens and tell them they need to repent. You have to respect these people's beliefs, there's room in this world for many different religions.

 

[anitram]

Dreadsox, the best thing I can come up with is the quote of an exemplary Christian - Mother Teresa, who on several occasions said,

"I love all religions. ... If people become better Hindus, better Muslims, better Buddhists by our acts of love, then there is something else growing there."

'there are many ways to God': "All is God--Buddists, Hindus, Christians, etc., all have access to the same God."

"If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are. ... What God is in your mind you must accept"

I agree with her - there are multiple paths to the truth, it is up to us to be respectful and loving of other people's beliefs. I believe God works to reveal himself in different ways to all of us, and I am respectful of the paths people choose.

Plus, in this instance, it's just adding fuel to an already large fire, IMO.

 

[nbcrusader]

For all of Mother Teresa's good works, she is a little mixed up on her theology.

To the main point, why is there a fear of Christians serving in Muslim countries? Can we let the individuals in Iraq make up their minds, or must we "protect" them claiming any evangelical activity is "shoving beliefs down their throats".

 

[anitram]

nbcrusader, perhaps you should read up on The Second Vatican council and what it says about people of other faiths and then see if you still agree that Mother Teresa was 'mixed up.'

 

[nbcrusader]

nbcrusader, perhaps you should read up on The Second Vatican council and what it says about people of other faiths and then see if you still agree that Mother Teresa was 'mixed up.'

I'll just stick to what the Bible says.

 

[bonosloveslave]

I'll just stick to what the Bible says.

Sorry, that's the way I gotta go too. Jesus said, *I* am the way, the truth, and the life - *no one* comes to the Father except through *me*.

 

[Scarletwine]

Back to the thread and not theological semantics.

The everyday people in the Middle East like Iran, Lebanon, Egypt already think we have begun a Crusade against the Arabs. I know I watch their news. I was astonished at how much Lebanon hates us.
Anyway, allowing missionaries into Iraq only reinforces the extremists views among the general population. This is not a wise decision. If the situation stabalizes later then maybe.

Remember how the invasions of South America by Spain and their missionaries are thought of today.

 

[deep]

?There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.?
Peace be upon you.


yin/yang

A coin cannot exist with out two sides.


Rock on

 

[hiphop]

For all of Mother Teresa's good works, she is a little mixed up on her theology.

Can we let the individuals in Iraq make up their minds

I think she was very clear on her theology. I think it is disrepectful to speak about Mother Teresa like that.

Apart from that, the people there have already made up their minds on which religion to choose.

But I am all for those naive Christians going there, as long as they don?t use guns and knives like the Spanish crusaders to pre-emptively defend themselves, why not? No Muslim who really believes in Allah will be converted, and the Americans will actually go and see how destroyed a country can be after a war, which will hopefully improve their judgement qualities in the future.

 

[deep]

I sense a lack of empathy and respect for other cultures.

To the parents posting in here, I ask this. How would you feel if a government sponsored program encourage your children to abandon your beliefs? If this were happening to you I would be with you opposing such activities.

The President said America should be less arrogant.
He also used the word Crusade.

Less arrogant appears to be losing to Crusade.

 

[Scarletwine]

Amen.

 

[hiphop]

I sense a lack of empathy and respect for other cultures.

To the parents posting in here, I ask this. How would you feel if a government sponsored program encourage your children to abandon your beliefs? If this were happening to you I would be with you opposing such activities.

The President said America should be less arrogant.
He also used the word Crusade.

Less arrogant appears to be losing to Crusade.

I think all what conservative Americans needed, was a few more Muslims to convert them to Allah after 09/11.

But like I said: let them go there! I doubt they?ll find a Mac Donalds, but let them see the realities of a third world country, including a few stinking dead bodies.

 

[U2Bama]

Is it okay for American Muslim groups to go to poor African-American communities here in the U.S. and pass out information about Islam and communicate it to people as a righteous path to success and/or salvation? I have seen this several times here in Alabama, the buckle of the "Bible Belt" and home to many Southern Baptists. Or perhaps this whole issue is another one of those "one way streets" like "diversity."

Aside from that, does it say somewhere in the Bible or some other religious book that we are not to disagree with mother Teresa? I respect her a ton, but I do not agree with everything she said. Heck, a lot of saints have said things contrary to what other saints have said, even contrary to shat Jesus Himself said; how can we agree with/respect all of their words if some of their words conflict with each other? Throughout 1 Corinthians, Paul says things which seem to make women subservient, yet later on, in Galatians, he equalizes the status of men and women (and many other groups) in saying that "in Christ there is no man nor woman." Can I disagree with him on his Corinthian statements, or would I be dissing him?

~U2Alabama

 

[Scarletwine]

U2 Bama , I agree with your sentiments but you are ignoring the efect of trying t Christainize the population.