Spain Unveils Controversial Gay Marriage Law

[AussieU2fanman]

Advertise as much as you like I could never get a hard on over another man - sexuality is pretty much hard wired.

One must remember that 50 years ago there may still have been the same frequency of gay individuals but they hid their sexuality and never "came out of the closet". The myth that somehow homosexuality is a new thing is just not true, it was there in Ancient Greece, it was there in the Victorian era and it is with us today - the percentage of individuals who have some degree of sexual attraction to the same sex is the same today as it ever was, only now it is practiced openly.

You are peddling the same crap that about gays as the church does. How many gay people do you know? Have they ever done anything to convert your to their sexual preference?

You treat homosexuality as if it were by definition a bad thing. What on earth is wrong with being gay?

Can you aknowledge that impressionable people will see homosexuality as 'cool' and acceptable and will therefore have a relationship with another man even though it is against his\her own nature?
I believe in some people, it is in their nature to be gay. I believe in some people, it is their nature to steal, or kill. There are flaws in our nature, even though we are born with them, it doesn't make it okay. No we are NOT all born equal, that's the biggest load of shit I've heard. Now, I think that the idea of a man having a sexual relationship with another man is sickening. It is a flaw in their human nature. This goes against the moral fibres in my body and no matter what, it can't be changed. (this is directed to the genuine homosexuals, not to the converted one's. If you don't think a person who is not actually gay can't be converted to homosexuality in this day and age, ignore what I am saying.)
It's midnight, I'm going to bed....
Cheers

 

[Renne]

More gay men = less competition when getting a girl.

Maybe the fear is: More gay women = less girls to get?

 

[A_Wanderer]

But we all know that gay women are ugly so it is just making the choice better

 

[AussieU2fanman]

I have to say that I'm with A_Wanderer on this one. You either are or you aren't or you're doing it because it's the hip thing to do. You don't "turn" anything.



Did you even read my comment?



Hardly, as it was you yourself who brought up that the human purpose, apparently, is to procreate.

I am intending on not procreating. I am also not a straight woman in the sense that I find men and only men attractive. Therefore I may quite easily choose to spend the rest of my life with a woman I love. So I see the relevance of this.



Personally, I'd rather read a logically constructed argument based on someones belief system than them trying to promote the agenda of an ideology they don't personally believe in.

[You're an atheist therefore you do not believe. That simple.]

I said that Christianity and I share a similar moral and ethical grounding on the issue. And any other references to God (eg. Adam and Eve) are done to help me understand as to why you disagree with the teachings of Christianity, which I imagine many of you are Christians.

And no, the off topic bit was regarding the containment of babies, (ie. MARS lol), not procreation itself!

 

[AussieU2fanman]

But we all know that gay women are ugly so it is just making the choice better

Actually I have seen many gay women, both in real life and in the form of video (oh comeon, stop lying to yourself!). A fairly mixed bag I'd say. You get the obese short blonde hair dykes who ride harley's, and then you get the slim very attractive gay porn stars, whom I have no problem with

 

[A_Wanderer]

Gay porn stars indiciative of the wider gay community?

Lets get back to reality here, people are people. Why should somebody be treated worse because of sexual preference. It is illogical, especially if one comes from the perspective that God does not exist and therefore does not command one how to live.

You may be sickened to your stomach at the thought of there being gay relationships, but that is your own issue to deal with, and I suggest that you do. I mean seriously, people living their lives the way that they want to in a way that doesnt harm anybody. What the hell is wrong with that?

 

[AussieU2fanman]

It all comes down to where you stand morally\ethically. If you think it is totally acceptable and nothing will change your mind, don't worry about it. I was just outlining why I disagree with it, and I said why I am morally\ethically opposed.
Seeing as that many of you are Christian, I was using examples of your God's teachings and how you can discard them, that's why I involved Christianity.
And yes, there are so many inequalities in this world, and most of the time, it's no use thinking you can iron the whole thing out. In the case of homosexuality, it is better to let them go without the right of marriage, rather than let them immorally marry eachother IMO. I just drew up a cost-benefit analysis, and it makes sense to me.
Anyway, it looks like it's impossible to convince any of you folk so goodnight.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I am not going to change your mind, and saying anything extreme wouldn't either. Given enough time you will come to reconcile your views properly - although I dearly hope that you come to understand the reasonable path on such matters.

Now if you were opposed to gay marriage on the basis that they would be getting government benefits ususally associated with child rearing, well then I may be inclined to agree - but this, it is illogical hatred.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Okay just quickly, can anyone see a problem in the future with gay couples having an equal spread in the community like straight couples? Say there's a 50\50 spread, can anyone see that there is something very wrong here.....? I personally don't want to live in that society, but it seems that will happen with the way things are going now. But by the sounds of it, you people are okay with this Please share.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Sexuality is not so much a choice. It is a mess of behaviour and neurochemicals interplaying with eachother. Or as I said before you cannot change peoples sexuality, you yourself show an attitude of "it sickens me" towards such behaviour. No doubt that is the natural response and why no guy in their right mind would flip to be gay.

There can be no 50/50 spread because those so inclined are 10% of the population at large, tops. The concept that people will en masse "convert" to being gay because its so damn cool is flawed because the vast majority of people are attracted to the opposite sex and only some people are attracted to the same sex.

As I said the number of gay people, or more accurately the proportion, has not increased. All that has changed is the number who are open about their sexuality.

I am not some wishy-washy bleeding heart, I am just a man who believes society must move beyond such petty hatreds to make things better. There is a threat out there that is full of malice and desires to murder us all - they also reserve special punishments for homosexuals, it involves a red hot poker. If we truly want to craft a peace with justice then lets start showing some at home. Gays are people too, there is no logical reason to hate gays or presume that society will go to hell because a small proportion of society has gone from being a subculture to being more mainstream.

I am not going to change your mind. But I think that your belief is founded on irrational hatred and not reason. You will not have your mind changed by a message board, only by living your life the way that you want to may you understand why that is such an important thing - something that nobody should be denied in a free society. This is all about freedom, in this case sexual freedom. Can you as an individual dictate your will to society in regards to something that does not hurt anybody, is that right? Is that just?

 

[pax]

::keeps quiet for the moment::

 

[AussieU2fanman]

I

Now if you were opposed to gay marriage on the basis that they would be getting government benefits ususally associated with child rearing, well then I may be inclined to agree - but this, it is illogical hatred.

Illogical hatred? Who's hating anybody?! I never even made any indication that I HATE homosexuals. People always do this to me, they assume because I disagree with something, that I HATE whatever\whomever is concerned. Now THAT is illogical!
As for my discontent with homosexuals, it is hardly illogical. I am firmly morally opposed to the issue. And the issue of converted gay people as a result of the media\gay rights, is a seperate issue, which I believe is downright wrong as I have tried to explain before.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Saying that what they are doing is inherently morally wrong is a little over the top isn't it?

I mean what morality code are they violating.

Generally by marching full steam ahead on a platform of "converting" innocent people to being gay and there being a massive gay mafia controlling the media as well as homosexuality being immoral you are being, and I really hate to use the word, homophobic.

 

[iacrobat]

'Introducing a virus?' I couldn't agree more with that comment.

Let's try and have a civilized debate if you like.
Thankyou.

Can you even begin to grasp how offensive that is?

Civilised indeed.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Sexuality is not so much a choice. It is a mess of behaviour and neurochemicals interplaying with eachother. Or as I said before you cannot change peoples sexuality, you yourself show an attitude of "it sickens me" towards such behaviour. No doubt that is the natural response and why no guy in their right mind would flip to be gay.

There can be no 50/50 spread because those so inclined are 10% of the population at large, tops. The concept that people will en masse "convert" to being gay because its so damn cool is flawed because the vast majority of people are attracted to the opposite sex and only some people are attracted to the same sex.

As I said the number of gay people, or more accurately the proportion, has not increased. All that has changed is the number who are open about their sexuality.

I am not some wishy-washy bleeding heart, I am just a man who believes society must move beyond such petty hatreds to make things better. There is a threat out there that is full of malice and desires to murder us all - they also reserve special punishments for homosexuals, it involves a red hot poker. If we truly want to craft a peace with justice then lets start showing some at home. Gays are people too, there is no logical reason to hate gays or presume that society will go to hell because a small proportion of society has gone from being a subculture to being more mainstream.

I am not going to change your mind. But I think that your belief is founded on irrational hatred and not reason. You will not have your mind changed by a message board, only by living your life the way that you want to may you understand why that is such an important thing - something that nobody should be denied in a free society. This is all about freedom, in this case sexual freedom. Can you as an individual dictate your will to society in regards to something that does not hurt anybody, is that right? Is that just?

But if you say homosexuality is okay, what does it matter if 50% of couples are gay? By your logic, 99% of couples can be gay and it wouldn't offend you at all because being gay is 'okay.' Trust me, if trends continue, you will see an astronomical number, maybe not as large as 50%, but very large.

I definately believe that straight people, without flaws in their nature to become gay, CAN become gay due to conditioning. Sexuality can be as malleable as a piece of rubber. Just like our sexual preferences for different partners can change for whatever reason, our sexual preferences in regards to the opposite sex can change, as is evident with my cousin, it can be done via the media\social acceptance which is a gigantic influence. My cousin addmitted he was 'converted' to homosexuality for such reasons. He wouldn't lie about that I can assure you.
Also, straight people can see being gay as 'cool' and just become a homosexual even though they are not actually gay. I won't need to give examples of that, surely people agree?

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Can you even begin to grasp how offensive that is?

Civilised indeed.

Yes A_wanderer said that aswell. I should have made it more clear, I agree. I wasn't saying that all gays are a virus.
I was talking about how the media\social acceptance are encouraging homosexuality which is wrong IMO. If you think encouraging such actions is okay, that's fine.

 

[A_Wanderer]

We will not see such numbers, I am willing to bet money - or at least large ammounts of pride on this.

If 99.999% of the population was gay then yes there would be a very big problem, but the reality is that this will not happen. And if its all just in fun then I am sure that they will grow out of it and settle down to have kids - nuff said. I do not have a single friend how has ever decided to turn gay because it is cool, you would have to be a real tool to do such a thing, therefore not many people will. You are overreacting to a nonissue.

What are you smoking, I think the govenment should ban it

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Saying that what they are doing is inherently morally wrong is a little over the top isn't it?

I mean what morality code are they violating.

Generally by marching full steam ahead on a platform of "converting" innocent people to being gay and there being a massive gay mafia controlling the media as well as homosexuality being immoral you are being, and I really hate to use the word, homophobic.

They are infringing on the Christian morality code shared by virually all the people here. They are infringing on my morality code as well, and many people like myself who share a similar outlook.
And no I am not a homophobe, that is totally unnecassary in this day and age.
What I don't like is that if we can't deal with an issue, we just accept it and label it as 'okay.' That's living in a fantasy world. We should admit that people aren't equal and 'the same' in this world because we are only lying to ourselves. And if we see something as bad and we can't change it, don't just accept it and encourage it, that is living a false reality.

 

[A_Wanderer]

But this insistence that it is bad, that is what I am getting at. The idea that homosexual behaviour is somehow an abberation of humanity, that they are less worthy people because of their sexuality. Letting people live freely is the greatest thing in this world, any attempt to control behaviour that just doesn't hurt anybody would be wrong.

I do not see homosexuality as a bad thing, I see religious fanatacism as a bad thing, I see the terrorist slicing a childs eyeballs out a bad thing. As I have said before this is what liberty entails, the freedom to live your life the way that you want to - as long as it does not hurt others or prevent them from doing so.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

We will not see such numbers, I am willing to bet money - or at least large ammounts of pride on this.

If 99.999% of the population was gay then yes there would be a very big problem, but the reality is that this will not happen. And if its all just in fun then I am sure that they will grow out of it and settle down to have kids - nuff said. I do not have a single friend how has ever decided to turn gay because it is cool, you would have to be a real tool to do such a thing, therefore not many people will. You are overreacting to a nonissue.

What are you smoking, I think the govenment should ban it

It's not a question of whether it will happen or not, I know it's impossible! But following your logic it would be 'okay' if 90% of the population was gay. You said 'If 99.999% of the population was gay then yes there would be a very big problem.' Why? Gays can still have babies using all the whiz band inverto fertilization procedures etc. Gays are our equals according to you? They have the same rights? What would it matter?

 

[A_Wanderer]

A gay person is equal according to me, and I will say that with pride. We live in free societies, let people enjoy that freedom as much as possible.

Homosexuals/heterosexuals it makes no real difference, we are all human beings and we are all born with infinite potential - for better or worse. There is no big difference between a straight and gay person, we all feel - there is no reason to discriminate on such a frivilous matter as sexuality.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

A gay person is equal according to me, and I will say that with pride. We live in free societies, let people enjoy that freedom as much as possible.

Homosexuals/heterosexuals it makes no real difference, we are all human beings and we are all born with infinite potential - for better or worse. There is no big difference between a straight and gay person, we all feel - there is no reason to discriminate on such a frivilous matter as sexuality.

lol, I think you are avoiding the question at hand! Will you or will you not approve 90% of all couples being homosexual? Keeping in mind, this is completely irrespective of whether it is theoretically possible or not. I asked you this several times and you didn't answer it properly, you discussed how it wasn't technically possible which is completely irrelevant.
I think that the reason you are avoiding answering it directly, is that you actually don't fully approve of homosexuality yourself. There are sooooo many people like you that feel forced to say 'yes!' even though they don't actually agree with it themselves. I fully understand your dislocation. Is it a result of the lack of social stability resulting from disapproval of homosexuality? I think I understand our differences now A_wanderer. You are a highly intelligent man who will aim for social stabilty and cohesion in any cirumstance, even if that means rejecting part of your true self and the faults in human nature.
I, however, tell it like I believe it is, I am a realist. If something is wrong, I won't try and cover it up to make sure anarchy doesn't break out. I admit things are wrong in society, but I won't label them as 'acceptable' if we can't change them. It is a matter of you and me, truth or stability? No one is right. I respect your choice A_wanderer, and it is, to an extent, the better option. In regards to the religious debate, you would be the King who feeds the peasants religion in order to keep them under control, which is an essential tool in progressing society. Whoa I went off topic!

 

[A_Wanderer]

I do not demand social cohesion or stability at any price - my intollerance towards despotism in all its forms may show this - I think that freedom can be fought for. The simple fact is that homosexuality is just human beings loving eachother, and that is never a bad thing.

If you could show me a society that was 90% homosexual that used technology to maintain a population then I would have no problem with it. If on the other hand this 90% gay society started to persecute heterosexual couples and prevented them from getting married / associated issues of medical care next of kin type stuff then yes I would be staunchly against it. I have not been indoctrinated by the PC police - part of the whole freedom deal, it doesn't hurt anybody and I dont find anything wrong then what is the issue. I am not forced to say yes, I say yes by my own volition. It would be hypocritical of me to say that I dont think gay couples should be afforded equal rights but at the same time say that an Iraqi living under the thumb of Saddam should enjoy the same freedoms that so many others do.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

I do not demand social cohesion or stability at any price - my intollerance towards despotism may show this - I think that freedom can be fought for. The simple fact is that homosexuality is just human beings loving eachother, and that is never a bad thing.

If you could show me a society that was 90% homosexual that used technology to maintain a population then I would have no problem with it. If on the other hand this 90% gay society started to persecute heterosexual couples and prevented them from getting married / associated issues of medical care next of kin type stuff then yes I would be staunchly against it. I have not been indoctrinated by the PC police - part of the whole freedom deal, it doesn't hurt anybody and I dont find anything wrong then what is the issue.

Ahh yes finally, you answered the question. You would be 100% cool with a sustainable society where 90% of the population was gay. I personally don't believe you, and I don't think anyone here does LOL. Really, rrrreeaaalllyy think about it. I don't think anyone would be THAT comfortable with it, unless you were gay of course! (Are you trying to tell me something ) Anyway if you keep insisting that, I've go nothing more to say

 

[A_Wanderer]

Believe what you will, gays dont represent a threat to society - they are part of society.

 

[AussieU2fanman]

Believe what you will, gays dont represent a threat to society - they are part of society.

Even though if they cover 90% of married couples? Everything would be the same? You will still be exactly the same? You would feel 100% comfortable......come on man, I'm not a TOTAL moron. Give me some credit at least!
Bed time.....

 

[verte76]

Gays are not any sort of threat to society. Maybe the gays would do better than the heterosexuals do, what with half their marriages ending in divorce.

 

[pax]

I believe A_Wanderer.

And I, too, wouldn't give a hoot of 90% of a population was gay, if they had figured out sustainable reproduction techniques and did not persecute heterosexuals (you know, the way gays are persecuted now with the numbers reversed).

 

[Renne]

They are infringing on the Christian morality code shared by virually all the people here.

Excuse me? How can you presume to know what moral code "virtually all the people here" follow? What gives you the right to speak for the majority?

You have no idea what the majority of the board here believes in. No one does. Unless there was a poll done in which the majority participated giving true and accurate results conforming to what you're attempting to argue, then you might have an argument.

You certainly don't speak for me when you say that "virtually all people here" follow the Christian moral code.

I find your attitude towards this topic, towards other people's opinions that don't coincide with yours and towards gay people demeaning and disrespectful.

You badgered A_Wanderer into answering your rather inane question and then immediately disregarded his answer as being frivolous and unbelievable. Since you knew that he would answer that way as every comment he had previously made would lead an intelligent person to believe so, I have to wonder why you would do this. Did you do it so that if he by some chance did agree with you, you could call him on his hypocrisy? I don't understand your motivations in persisting to get this question answered.

 

[deep]

.come on man, I'm not a TOTAL moron..

I'll take your word for it.