Sources of Information - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-18-2002, 05:02 PM   #21
Refugee
 
RavenStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 1,101
Local Time: 09:31 AM
People always ask if I'm left wing, right wing, ao neutral(middle). I can never answer cos I'm none of them. I am very left wing in the modern sense but I am against welfare. I like the idea of OHIP (Ontario health insurance policy) but I don't like how our government lets immigrants in so easily. All you have to do is claim refugee status and you get free money, an apartment, etc.
I don't really have any references because of this.
__________________

RavenStar is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:02 PM   #22
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Can this "progressive leftist liberal" post some sites or is that for another thread?
Please post them! We'll just make this the "where do you get your political information from?" thread
__________________

FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:04 PM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,652
Local Time: 08:31 AM
Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


what is a progressive leftist liberal?
Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation and doesn't rely on the financial support of corporate advertising).
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:12 PM   #24
Blue Crack Addict
 
Laura M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,934
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation).
yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
Laura M is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:20 PM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,652
Local Time: 08:31 AM
okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:32 PM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen
Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
The Tories are the most anti-immigration party in the UK, but actually Labour are getting much closer to the Tories on this issue, they now think asylum seekers should be locked up in detention centres when they come into the country, they suggest that the children of asylum seekers should be educated seperately and they believe it's safe to send people back to Afghanistan, even though the war there is still going on.
If you want to know more about it have a look at the refugee council's website: www.refugeecouncil.org.uk, it has all the latest news and responses to what the government is saying about asylum seekers.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:37 PM   #27
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
okay, here are some sites I consider to be progressive:

www.commondreams.org
www.democracynow.org
www.johnpilger.com
Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:54 PM   #28
Acrobat
 
cloudimani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 483
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen
Whats the difference/ Are the political parties like our political parties i.e. sein Fein, SDLP, PUP, etc etc etc??????
The problem with Northern Irish politics is the policies have been overshadowed by religous and geographical differences, and by violence, so its somewhat harder to see what the real policies are, except between Unionism and Nationalism.

Although as has been mentionned Unionists tend to be conservative, and the nationalist parties liberal. The full title of the SDLP is the Social Democratic and Labour Party (whom incidentally I favour) and whose title more than hints at their policies.

Politics in the UK at the moment arent as simple as conservative - liberal, as the (so-called "New") Labour Government are barely distinguishable from the tories who proceeded them. There is little sign of socialist or liberal policies (except perhaps the NHS which is failing somewhat), but University Tuition fees are an example - it was the Labour Government who re-established them. In fact Tony Blair's politics are seen as being slightly right of centre, than left which would have been the norm for previous labour parties/leaders.
cloudimani is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 05:59 PM   #29
Acrobat
 
cloudimani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 483
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


yes i see

Well to tell you the truth- i think all parties will boast of what they think is right but they all have faults imo so none of them are perfect- its tough choosing parties!!

politics is mind-boggling stuff!

Are any of these parties against immigrants? I think its the....tories (or labour i dunno) in britain dont want them coming in and living in the Uk- i think that is wrong too
Unfortunately narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attitudes across Europe mean more right wing politicians are gaining influence, which is not good for those trying to gain asylum.
If people see rising levels in crime its likely to be blamed on immigrants, and the rise of the National Front in France and the BNP in Britain shows a worrying trend.
cloudimani is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 06:00 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,652
Local Time: 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Thanks for posting those links, joyfulgirl
I really like John Pilger - have you read his latest book, The New Rulers of the World
You've probably already seen it, but www.zmag.org is another site I think is very progressive - it often prints articles by Pilger and many other left/liberal authors.
Yes, I'm reading it now. He is amazing. I heard him speak here recently with Amy Goodman (host of "DemocracyNow!", a listener-supported independent radio station here). He said that one of the hardest things he's ever done is to get a book published in the U.S. Even while his documentaries are shown on TV in the U.K. and around the world, no one here would publish him because he is viewed as so controversial. Seems like such a good man, a courageous man, with a lot of integrity. I bet the Aussies on this board know him, too.

Oh, yes, add www.zmag.org to the list!
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-18-2002, 06:20 PM   #31
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani
Unfortunately narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attitudes across Europe mean more right wing politicians are gaining influence, which is not good for those trying to gain asylum.
If people see rising levels in crime its likely to be blamed on immigrants, and the rise of the National Front in France and the BNP in Britain shows a worrying trend.
Certainly, some right-wing European politicians are racists, but I wouldn't limit racism to JUST the right wing.

As far as I can tell, it is the leftists who are tending towards animosity toward Israel and Jews in general.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known
for engaing in very long discussions.
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 07-19-2002, 04:43 AM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba


Certainly, some right-wing European politicians are racists, but I wouldn't limit racism to JUST the right wing.

As far as I can tell, it is the leftists who are tending towards animosity toward Israel and Jews in general.
But the racist politicians who have recently had some success in Europe have all been right-wing. Le Pen who got through to the second round of the Presidential elections in France, Haider in Austria, the BNP who in May won three council seats in Britain, the National Alliance and Northern League who are part of Berlusconi's coalition government in Italy, the People's Party in Denmark, Pim Fortuyn in Holland. These parties are all described as "far-right" and one noticeable similarity is that they're all very strongly anti-immigration, which is a right-wing idea.

On the suggestion that the left are racist because of their response to the Israel/Palestine situation - remember that many of the above right-wing parties are extremely anti-semitic also. I don't disagree that the left tend to be more supportive of Palestine than the right, but that shouldn't be mistaken for anti-semitism. Many people on the left criticise Israel for it's treatment of Palestinian people over the last fifty years, but in the majoirty of cases, that's not because Israel is predominantly Jewish but because of the appalling human rights record of the Israeli government.

Another question - do you have many racist political parties in the US? And if so, how much support do they have?
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-19-2002, 10:13 AM   #33
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:31 AM

I think my "feelings"..supercede all data and silly ass- links.

DB9
diamond is offline  
Old 07-19-2002, 06:17 PM   #34
Refugee
 
Achtung Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: One Nation. Under God.
Posts: 1,513
Local Time: 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
But the racist politicians who have recently had some success in Europe have all been right-wing. Le Pen who got through to the second round of the Presidential elections in France, Haider in Austria, the BNP who in May won three council seats in Britain, the National Alliance and Northern League who are part of Berlusconi's coalition government in Italy, the People's Party in Denmark, Pim Fortuyn in Holland. These parties are all described as "far-right" and one noticeable similarity is that they're all very strongly anti-immigration, which is a right-wing idea.

On the suggestion that the left are racist because of their response to the Israel/Palestine situation - remember that many of the above right-wing parties are extremely anti-semitic also. I don't disagree that the left tend to be more supportive of Palestine than the right, but that shouldn't be mistaken for anti-semitism. Many people on the left criticise Israel for it's treatment of Palestinian people over the last fifty years, but in the majoirty of cases, that's not because Israel is predominantly Jewish but because of the appalling human rights record of the Israeli government.
Ahem.

Quote:
As French students by the hundreds of thousands stage protest marches across the country, pretty much the entire world knows the result of the first round of the French election. Jacques Chirac, the conservative sitting president, goes into a runoff on May 5 against not Jospin but Jean-Marie Le Pen, leader of the country's fascistic National Front. Le Pen has built his career mimicking the oratory of the rightists who collaborated with Nazi Germany in World War II. He has been a consistent foe of immigration and a practitioner of nudge-nudge, wink-wink cracks against Jews. In the past decade he has added rage against America and the global economy to his oratorical repertory. He is a goon and a gangster, but he had little need to raise divisive issues in the first round. France now has 4,244 crimes per 100,000 residents annually, according to European Union statistics, making it a higher-crime society than even the long-belittled United States. During a week when the top story on tabloid TV was the bloody beating of an 80-year-old man in sleepy Orleans by a gang of beurs who had invaded his house, Le Pen focused, as did Chirac, on the dramatic upsurge in violence over the past decade.

But while crime was what brought voters to the polls, France has an even more ominous problem: a wave of attacks and threats against the country's 700,000 Jews that is unprecedented in the last half century of European history. It includes what Rabbi Abraham Cooper of the Simon Wiesenthal Center describes as "the largest onslaught against European synagogues and Jewish schools since Kristallnacht" in 1938. What is surprising and confusing in all of this is that the "new anti-Semitism" in France is a phenomenon of the left. It has practically nothing to do with Le Pen. In fact, its most dangerous practitioners are to be found among the very crowds thronging the streets to protest him.

"IN PARIS AS IN GAZA--INTIFADA!"

The outbreak began in September 2000, in the days after Palestinians launched the "second intifada" against Israel. The first attacks included firebombings of synagogues in Paris, Villepinte, Creil, Lyons, Ulis (badly damaged), and Trappes (burned to the ground), and other Jewish buildings (high schools, kosher restaurants) throughout France; desecrations of synagogues and cemeteries; widespread stonings of Jews leaving Sabbath worship, death threats, bomb threats, and Nazi and Islamist graffiti of every description: swastikas, "Hitler was right," "F-- Your Mother, Jews" (Nique ta mere les juifs--a slogan so commonplace that it now appears more usually as NTM les juifs), "Death to the Jews," and "In Paris as in Gaza--Intifada!"

Such slogans, particularly the last, now get chanted routinely at pro-Palestinian rallies in Paris and elsewhere. (As do hymns to Osama bin Laden, according to reports of last October's pro-Palestinian march in Paris.) Anti-Jewish violence has indeed tracked the progress of the intifada, rising during violent periods in the Middle East and falling during truces. There was also a spike after September 11; on the following Sabbath alone, worshippers were stoned at synagogues in Clichy, Garges-les-Gonesse, and Massy; gangs sought to storm a synagogue in Villepinte; and shots were fired outside a Jewish association in Paris. But if it has slowed at times, the cascade of such incidents has never stopped, even for a week, in the last 19 months. At the turn of this year, the League of French Jewish Students and the watchdog agency SOS Racism compiled a list of 406 such incidents.
(I highly recommend reading the rest of the article above.)

If you want to talk full-tilt hatred of the Jews, don't look to le Pen; look to many of the Arabs and Muslims who protested against him.

Certainly, many of the European elites - the BBC that misreports about Israel and the English colleges that fire Israeli professors - may be against Israel for reasons other than race. But their behavior is still unacceptable.
__________________
DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known
for engaing in very long discussions.
Achtung Bubba is offline  
Old 07-19-2002, 11:47 PM   #35
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,604
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Well, it's sort of someone who used to be a democrat but then realized that democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin (i.e., equally corrupt). See my post above--I just want the truth and have no strong party affiliations. I rely heavily on independent media for information (i.e., media that isn't owned by a corporation and doesn't rely on the financial support of corporate advertising).
What sources do you regularly read?

Quite frankly, I'm unimpressed with the media watchdog groups and independent media outlets I've stumbled across. Bernard Goldberg thinks the mainstream media is too liberal, while FAIR thinks the mainstream media is too conservative. Go figure.

Instead of reading media sources that claim to be the last bastion of unbiased reporting, I think it's best to check out a wide variety of opinions.

speedracer is offline  
Old 07-20-2002, 10:49 AM   #36
Blue Crack Addict
 
Laura M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,934
Local Time: 04:31 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: learning is brain food

Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


The Tories are the most anti-immigration party in the UK, but actually Labour are getting much closer to the Tories on this issue, they now think asylum seekers should be locked up in detention centres when they come into the country, they suggest that the children of asylum seekers should be educated seperately and they believe it's safe to send people back to Afghanistan, even though the war there is still going on.
If you want to know more about it have a look at the refugee council's website: www.refugeecouncil.org.uk, it has all the latest news and responses to what the government is saying about asylum seekers.
Checking that website now as i type....


Quote:
Unfortunately narrow-minded racist and xenophobic attitudes across Europe mean more right wing politicians are gaining influence, which is not good for those trying to gain asylum.
If people see rising levels in crime its likely to be blamed on immigrants, and the rise of the National Front in France and the BNP in Britain shows a worrying trend.


How can the politicians get away with being like that???

Xenophobia <- I did about that in Spanish this year and about all the foreigners try to come to Spain but they are turned away and lots of them drown and stuuf thats not right
Laura M is offline  
Old 07-21-2002, 06:42 AM   #37
Refugee
 
Anthony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,538
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Fizzingwhizzbees;

In regards to your comment concerning Labour's apparent growing intolerance to 'immigrants', I would urge you to make distinctions. It is not due to rascism or xenophobia that the government is making it harder for them to enter, it is because of the classic argument that there are simply too many.

Personally, I'm all for them not entering, and that is NOT becuase of rascism. It is because I'm fed up of Britain taking everyone in, when most countries in the Middle East and Asia won't let you live there unless you have a working permit. It is because I'm fed up of people criticising the NHS and Social Services because of excess applications, and then not being able to correlate that with the fact that a lot of these applicants aren't even British. I'm sorry, but its not a rascist observation that people who are entitled to help from the Government in Britain should be legally British.

Though I will agree with you that Tony Blair is primarily New Consvervative, I would not call the Labour Party as growing in 'right-wing' tendencies.

As for associations between anti-semitism and the Left wing parties, let me just say that that is completely inaccurate. There is practically no anti-semitism in British Left Wing parties as there is practically none in the American Republican Party.

And as for the concern in the 'rise of the Extreme RIght'; that is mainly due to the fact that there are many MANY weak Left-Wing leaders, all wrapped up in PC and mired by bleeding heart policies in order to appeal to the more aggreeable sensitivity. Look at Tony Blair, probably the weakest political figure around. Look at Lionel Jospin, who's political weakness was all his own doing. By the next turning of the political tide, we will have stronger lefties, since the market gap for them has been revealed.

Ant.
__________________
Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker, 'Resumé'
Anthony is offline  
Old 07-21-2002, 10:52 AM   #38
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
In regards to your comment concerning Labour's apparent growing intolerance to 'immigrants', I would urge you to make distinctions. It is not due to rascism or xenophobia that the government is making it harder for them to enter, it is because of the classic argument that there are simply too many.


I don't agree - there aren't "simply too many" asylum seekers. Less than 2% of the world's refugees seek asylum in Britain - the vast majority will remain in countries bordering the ones they are fleeing from. Last year there was an 11% fall in asylum applications compared to 2000 and Britain ranks TWELFTH out of all EU countries in the number of asylum applications relative to population. Last year approximately 70,000 people applied for asylum in Britain, compared to the six million refugees in the Middle East and 3.3 million in Africa. Contrary to what Blunkett would have us believe, we're certainly not being "swamped" by asylum seekers.

Quote:
Personally, I'm all for them not entering, and that is NOT becuase of rascism. It is because I'm fed up of Britain taking everyone in, when most countries in the Middle East and Asia won't let you live there unless you have a working permit. It is because I'm fed up of people criticising the NHS and Social Services because of excess applications, and then not being able to correlate that with the fact that a lot of these applicants aren't even British.


The NHS isn't underfunded because of asylum seekers, it's underfunded because of years of Tory underinvestment which for their first five years in office, this government did far too little to correct.

Asylum seekers can't even claim social security benefits - the only help available to them is £37 per week - that's 30% below income support provided to British citizens (and remember income support is supposed to keep people just above the poverty line). Do you really think asylum seekers make long and dangerous journeys in order to claim their £37 a week from the British government?

People don't come to this country because we're a "soft-touch" for asylum seekers - they come because the situation in their home country is so horrific that they fear for their lives. You can see this if you just look at where the majority of asylum applications come from - currently it's Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sri Lanka, all countries which currently are very unstable and where human rights abuses occur frequently. A few years ago, during the events in the former Yugoslavia, most asylum seekers in the UK came from that area, because the situation there was so dangerous for them. People don't choose to leave their family, their home, everything that's familiar to them, make dangerous journeys and suffer humiliating treatment at the hands of the British authorities unless the situation in their own country is so bad that they can't remain there.

Quote:
Though I will agree with you that Tony Blair is primarily New Consvervative, I would not call the Labour Party as growing in 'right-wing' tendencies.


I agree - a lot of the grassroots membership of the Labour Party are still genuninely left-wing (ass illustrated by the fact that we get three left wing members of the NEC almost every time) but the leadership of the party is most definitely moving to the right, it's not just Blair, look at the rest of his cabinet.


Quote:
And as for the concern in the 'rise of the Extreme RIght'; that is mainly due to the fact that there are many MANY weak Left-Wing leaders, all wrapped up in PC and mired by bleeding heart policies in order to appeal to the more aggreeable sensitivity. Look at Tony Blair, probably the weakest political figure around. Look at Lionel Jospin, who's political weakness was all his own doing. By the next turning of the political tide, we will have stronger lefties, since the market gap for them has been revealed.


I agree with you to an extent. But I think the failure of the left is that they're not standing up for left wing arguments, not that they're "wrapped up in PC" or "bleeding heart policies" but that they're not concerned with either! Jospin, a member of the French socialist party, carried out almost no socialist politics during his time in office. He lost support from the left (ie about 11% of them voted for smaller more left wing parties) and consequently got fewer votes than Le Pen. So I agree that it's because left-wing leaders are weak that the far-right is emerging, but I think it's because they're failing to respond to what the left want, not because they're responding too much.

The rise of the far-right is due to mainstream parties pandering to their disgusting racist politics. You don't fight racists by making concessions to their arguments, by using their language, by buying into their agenda. You fight them by standing up and saying that they are WRONG. That's why when Blunkett says our schools are being "swamped" by asylum seekers, when Peter Hain talks about "dangerous" "isolationist" Muslim communities and calls for a 'Fortress Europe' immigration policy, it plays into the hands of the far right and strengthens them.
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-21-2002, 10:57 AM   #39
ONE
love, blood, life
 
FizzingWhizzbees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: the choirgirl hotel
Posts: 12,614
Local Time: 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba
Certainly, many of the European elites - the BBC that misreports about Israel and the English colleges that fire Israeli professors - may be against Israel for reasons other than race. But their behavior is still unacceptable.
You might like to have a look at this article about far-right politics in France, Bubba. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...465333,00.html

A lot of anti-semitism does come from the far-right in politics, and is often linked to those who hold racist views about Black people also.

I'm curious about where you think the BBC has misreported events in Israel and Palestine. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just wondered what examples of misreporting you're referring to?
FizzingWhizzbees is offline  
Old 07-21-2002, 12:00 PM   #40
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
speedracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,604
Local Time: 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I'm curious about where you think the BBC has misreported events in Israel and Palestine. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just wondered what examples of misreporting you're referring to?
Filed under "spot the missing detail":

I remember reading in The New Republic that a Middle Eastern photographer working for Reuters had been detained by the Israeli Defense Force. The New Republic reprinted reports of the incident from Reuters and another European source. They then reprinted the IDF's official report, which happened to add the salient claim that the photographer was carrying a grenade.
__________________

speedracer is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×