Something I find rather disturbing

[Butterscotch]

On the radio this morning, I heard the DJ's rallying for the local can drive for the food banks, as they always do. They listed places where the food should be taken, and one of these was the US Army recruiting office. They usually don't say a thing about that, but today they actually went into a semi-commercial for joining up, saying once you drop off your cans, the recruiters will give you all the info you need to make a decision on whether or not to join.

That is not exactly what I am upset about, though I do find it kind of morally wrong. The thing that is eating at me is that they also went on to tout how much money a person would get as a 'signing bonus', in some cases up to 50 grand! It made me think this is almost like 'buying' soldiers. Worse than that, it's almost like enticing poor families to feel that maybe one of their kids should be 'sold' to the US military in exchange for saving the rest! (or that the child him/herself would feel guilt tripped into this option)

Okay, I know that's not what they're saying, or implying, but come on, isn't that basically what it amounts to in many cases? Who joins up more than anyone but the poor, or those who live in places where they have little to no future or job prospects? Say there's a poor family with about 6 kids in the ghetto, or a dirt farm in Oklahoma, or in the desert of New Mexico, whose finances are grim and have no hope of improving. With one of the children joining up, the rest of the family could be better off. Of course there is a chance that he or she could be killed, but then it would just be written off as 'their sacrifice' and 'they'd have wanted it this way.' It's like a throwback to the days when little boys were more or less 'sold' to work on a ship in exchange for a sum that would help the rest of the family survive. Has it come to that? Can you see how it may look that way?

 

[redhotswami]

You're spot on with that. Although, unfortunately, the military has been using those tactics for years. It worked on my dad and his brothers. It even worked on me (hehe, but I was too cool for them and I managed to get kicked out).

They specifically seek low-income residential areas and plug their hardest. When you take a drive through some of the poorer areas, take note of how many billboards, flyers, etc you see. And compare that to how many advertisements you see in the richer neighborhoods.

Instead of fixing the low-wage system that keeps the poor poor, the government specifically targets the children of these low-wage employees, telling them that this is they only way out.

 

[redkat]

That's exactly how it works. I don't know many people who joined up (outside of westpoint, with the intention of becoming officers) who weren't in need, most for money for college.

And what's really unfortunate is that the military families really need to food drive as most can't make ends meet with the measly wages they are living on. Their moms and dads are dying in Iraq and we aren't taking care of the kids they've left behind.

 

[BVS]

Bush just annonced this morning he wants a larger military...

 

[nathan1977]

So you find it immoral to offer signing bonuses for joining up for the military?

 

[martha]

So you find it immoral to offer signing bonuses for joining up for the military?

Did you read the posts?


It's the target audiences for the "bonuses" that are a problem for some people; the way the recruiting's done.

 

[anitram]

Did you read the posts?


It's the target audiences for the "bonuses" that are a problem for some people; the way the recruiting's done.

Reminds me of the traditional missionaries: a Bible in one hand and a plate of food in the other.

 

[martha]

Reminds me of the traditional missionaries: a Bible in one hand and a plate of food in the other.

Some of college professors from India called the converts "Rice Christians."

 

[Angela Harlem]

Bush just annonced this morning he wants a larger military...

Snigger. It's like the man and the size of his engine being compensation...nevermind.

I'm still struggling the revelation you guys have up to $50,000 signing bonus for joining the forces. I dont quite know where to start with the faults in that.

 

[redhotswami]

I'm still struggling the revelation you guys have up to $50,000 signing bonus for joining the forces. I dont quite know where to start with the faults in that.

Its crap too. You wouldn't think it'd be too hard to get it since it is a signing bonus, but I've had friends who wrestled back and forth with people for ages just trying to get that promised money. They were told over and over there were issues with the paperwork, and kept passing the blame.

 

[verte76]

It sounds a little like bribery to me. That annoys me.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Its crap too. You wouldn't think it'd be too hard to get it since it is a signing bonus, but I've had friends who wrestled back and forth with people for ages just trying to get that promised money. They were told over and over there were issues with the paperwork, and kept passing the blame.

That would be illegal in private enterprise. God bless your government.

 

[martha]

God bless your government.

That's what we say everyday.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Only cause you 'have' to!

 

[Dreadsox]

The Army kept every promise it ever made to me. I have no complaints. I needed the money, the army needed me.

 

[Varitek]

ugh.

 

[Liesje]

That would be illegal in private enterprise. God bless your government.

....except health insurance God bless our government

 

[MrPryck2U]

Uncle Sam's no fool! He tells you he wants you and then says he'll give you 50k if you join. If you join, mission accomplished. As a citizen, you can certainly say no. When there's no war, Uncle Sam doesn't need to use these tactics. I was a senior in High School during the first Gulf War and Uncle Sam called me several times and asked me to join up. I told them no thanks, but they wanted to know my plans for the future anyway. I didn't get offered any money though.
BTW, for those that don't know, Uncle Sam is slang for the United States.

 

[redhotswami]

Ya know what's funny? I was also hounded by recruiters. Then I told them to STFU b/c I *was* going into the military, but through ROTC. Those dudes STILL kept buggin! "We'll pay for your school too :blah:" I was like "SUCKA, you'll pay later. These guys pay NOW!" They just didn't know when to quit. All these guys wanted was enlisted folk, and they wanted them NOW. They didn't care about me personally, or my goals to go to college after high school.

 

[Dreadsox]

I have total repect for the man who recruited me. He did more for me than my high school guidance department. He helped me out when I returned home from boot camp.

I hate blanket statements.

There are bad people no matter what the profession.

 

[Butterscotch]

Sir I don't know when you joined, but what I mean is that right now they seem so desperate for bodies in uniform they are willing to buy them, even at the expense of their own lives and I find that wrong.

My father was in the Army, and they did not keep all their promises to him, including drastically changing the health care he had been promised he'd have for life, after he retired.

I wonder what happens to the money for college if the person gets killed? Does the family get that too, or does it go unclaimed and the gov't keeps it?

 

[Butterscotch]

They specifically seek low-income residential areas and plug their hardest. When you take a drive through some of the poorer areas, take note of how many billboards, flyers, etc you see. And compare that to how many advertisements you see in the richer neighborhoods.

Instead of fixing the low-wage system that keeps the poor poor, the government specifically targets the children of these low-wage employees, telling them that this is they only way out.

Exactly. They also target high schools in low income areas, or schools with low academic standings with a large number of students who aren't likely to make it into any college. One guy I know told me the military recruiters were about the only people who ever showed up on 'career day' at his school, making all the kids joke they must be seen as no more than 'cannon fodder' for the government.

 

[Butterscotch]

And what's really unfortunate is that the military families really need to food drive as most can't make ends meet with the measly wages they are living on.

Oh I know, this is a natural disgrace! It used to be military families had the advantage of the PX and commissary, now the Wal-Marts are full of GI's who will tell you they get a better deal there! I was appalled to see a collection jar at the Family Dollar to help military families pay for holiday dinners! WTF? They're dying every day, and they can't even afford to feed their kids? What's up with that? ???

 

[redkat]

Exactly. They also target high schools in low income areas, or schools with low academic standings with a large number of students who aren't likely to make it into any college. One guy I know told me the military recruiters were about the only people who ever showed up on 'career day' at his school, making all the kids joke they must be seen as no more than 'cannon fodder' for the government.

I think it was PBS that did a show on a school like that. Very poor community it was simply expected they would all join the military. Recruiters were the only ones at the career fair.

Anyone remember this? It was really interesting

 

[Butterscotch]

I didn't see that but I did see another special where a guy who was an honor student with a good school record set up a recruiter by pretending to be a flunked out drug addict with a police record, then taped the recruiter telling him he could 'take care of it' by falsifying his drug test and covering things up. Then he got the recruiter busted. When you have this type of stuff going on, it only shows that in general the military is desperate to fill uniforms, and has little to no regard for the lives of the people they use.

I also believe they expect a certain number of young people to have to be 'sacrificed' and aren't that upset or surprised to see some die, as if they were 'expendable.' Each person who dies had a life, dreams, hopes for the future and was a uique personality and their lives will be a loss that messes with the lives of those around them forever. I think the gov't has always expected a certain number of its citizens were 'expendable' (and not just in the US), especially in the days when people had a dozen kids. There seemed to be this attitude, even up to WWII, that maybe every family 'owed' Uncle Sam a couple of sons. But think of it now, when people have much smaller families. People are now losing their only son or only daughter, possibly their only child. Even if that's not the case, the losses are still a tragic waste. I also see parents with kids getting killed over there. And for what??!

 

[russmadem]

While I disagree with practically all Bush has done and I disagree with the tactics and practices the military uses to get recruits, the military is perhaps the one option many of my fellow citizens have to try and make a better life. I respect anyone who is willing to risk his or her life to simply try and forge a better future for themselves. College and a high paying job are pipe dreams to many from low income families. The money the military offers and the training they provide can make the difference between a life of poverty and a chance at a step up in life. Also, we should never assume the actual 'soldiers' of the US are evil just because the government seems to be. Yes, there are a few bad apples in the general population of the military, just as there is in every population group in the world, but the vast majority of our troops are in the military for the right reasons; to try and make a better life for themselves and their families and to serve and protect the rest of us, including those who sit at home and berate them. I for one admire and respect them. Hopefully, all of them in harms way will return home safely.

 

[redhotswami]

While I disagree with practically all Bush has done and I disagree with the tactics and practices the military uses to get recruits, the military is perhaps the one option many of my fellow citizens have to try and make a better life. I respect anyone who is willing to risk his or her life to simply try and forge a better future for themselves. College and a high paying job are pipe dreams to many from low income families. The money the military offers and the training they provide can make the difference between a life of poverty and a chance at a step up in life. Also, we should never assume the actual 'soldiers' of the US are evil just because the government seems to be. Yes, there are a few bad apples in the general population of the military, just as there is in every population group in the world, but the vast majority of our troops are in the military for the right reasons; to try and make a better life for themselves and their families and to serve and protect the rest of us, including those who sit at home and berate them. I for one admire and respect them. Hopefully, all of them in harms way will return home safely.

Noone has said that any soldier was evil. We're talking about their recruiting tactics. I'm just saying how I don't appreciate how my family (and many others) has been targeted by the military simply because of our economic status.

 

[russmadem]

I never meant anyone here had said anything disparaging about US military personnel. I just wanted to point out that hopefully no one will pass judgement on the men and women in the rank and file of the military based on one's opinion of the government and the 'military machine'. I think most of us here are intelligent enough to make this distinction.

 

[redhotswami]

I never meant anyone here had said anything disparaging about US military personnel. I just wanted to point out that hopefully no one will pass judgement on the men and women in the rank and file of the military based on one's opinion of the government and the 'military machine'.

Ah okay gotcha

 

[verte76]

It's a damn disgrace that military families are struggling.