So, who wants Hillary Clinton for president?

[LyricalDrug]

Here's why I want Hillary to run, and win:

1) The Clintons don't lose elections. They just don't. They are the best political strategists I have ever seen. If you're a Democrat, like me, this is why you want her to run: she will win.

2) Hillary will not get swift-boated. Kerry and Gore lost to Bush for the same reason: they ran dumb campaigns. They weren't aggressive at all, like the way the Clinton team campaigns.

3) Hillary is one of the smartest people in the world. Number 1 in her class at Yale Law, the number 1 law school in the country. Not too shabby.

4) Despite the right-wing's attempts to portray her as a 'raving liberal,' Hillary is actually a moderate centrist. Her voting record in the Senate has been painstakingly middle-of-the-road. This is how you persuade those fence-sitting, mind-changing mainstream voters who decide elections to vote for you. She is savvy.

 

[LyricalDrug]

So awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egha-yruJ0M&mode=related&search=

 

[BVS]

^His point about terrorism and Iraq is exactly where I stand. If America would wake up, we'd find ourselves more secure much quicker than this bullshit we're dealing with now.

This may be a very controversial statement, but: I do think the terrorist knew what they were doing attacking during this administration.

 

[Bluer White]

This may be a very controversial statement, but: I do think the terrorist knew what they were doing attacking during this administration.

And they didn't know what they were doing when they attacked Marines during the Reagan Adminstration, or multiple attacks during the Clinton Administration?

Do you think if Gore was elected, 9-11 would have been called off? Isn't that the implication you're making?

 

[A_Wanderer]

Or Bojinka

 

[Irvine511]

Do you think if Gore was elected, 9-11 would have been called off? Isn't that the implication you're making?

i don't want to put words in BVS's mouth, but i don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine that "the terrorists" knew that an attack under a Republican administration, especially this one, would provoke a disproportionate response that would give the terrorists the legitimacy they've been seeking since the early 1980s -- and we've certainly given it to them.

i am not saying that this is the case, but i can see this line of thought going through the mind of OBL

 

[phanan]

"I was one of the few members of my political party to support former President Bush in the Persian Gulf War resolution, and at the end of that war, for whatever reason, it was not finished in a way that removed Saddam Hussein from power. I know there are all kinds of circumstances and explanations. But the fact is that that's the situation that was left when I got there. And we have maintained the sanctions. Now I want to go further. I want to give robust support to the groups that are trying to overthrow Saddam Hussein"

--Al Gore, October 11, 2000, debating GW

I have no doubt that this line of thinking would have changed immediately once 9/11 happened.

 

[Irvine511]

^ i think it's important to note that support for "regime change" in Iraq, prior to 2003, is not necessarily a support for the Iraq War itself and certainly not a stamp of approval for how the post-war has been managed.

i remember hearing, even in the 1990s, about internal groups who wanted to knock out Saddam, and the US had operatives on the ground working with these groups, but intelligence coming out of Iraq was always, always very murky at best, so supporting the "right" people during some sort of coup would have been very, very risky. that said, i think "regime change" has always been national policy for the US, whether Republican or Democrat, often for the many reasons that STING lists (and lists and lists), however none of those reasons were ever given by this current administration as rationale for why they invaded in 2003 (which begs the question as to how compelling a rationale they ever were in the first place).

so ... my point remains that what people might have said pre-2003 in regards to Saddam, and the end of his regime (heck, i attended a great debate in college with Stephanapolus as a guest, where they debated the merits of political assassination, and George mentioned Saddam as a primary target and example for the potential morality of poltiical assassination), cannot be retroactively grafted into support for the actions taken by the Bush administration in 2002/3 -- nor should the rationale given by Gore and the Clintons be seen as part of the same rationale given by the Bushies in 2002/3.

 

[BVS]

Isn't that the implication you're making?

Ummm, no.

 

[BVS]

i don't want to put words in BVS's mouth, but i don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine that "the terrorists" knew that an attack under a Republican administration, especially this one, would provoke a disproportionate response that would give the terrorists the legitimacy they've been seeking since the early 1980s -- and we've certainly given it to them.

 

[trevster2k]

i don't want to put words in BVS's mouth, but i don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine that "the terrorists" knew that an attack under a Republican administration, especially this one, would provoke a disproportionate response that would give the terrorists the legitimacy they've been seeking since the early 1980s -- and we've certainly given it to them.

i am not saying that this is the case, but i can see this line of thought going through the mind of OBL

Ditto!!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Disgusting

NY Daily News

Clinton foe: 'Whew' she was hideous before 'work'

The race for New York senator's now personal. GOP hopeful John Spencer has attacked Hillary Clinton's looks, telling a reporter he doesn't know "why Bill married her."

Hillary Clinton's Republican challenger is getting personal and it's not pretty: He says the senator used to be ugly - and speculates she got "millions of dollars" in plastic surgery.

"You ever see a picture of her back then? Whew," said John Spencer of Clinton's younger days.

"I don't know why Bill married her," he said of the Clintons, who celebrated their 31st anniversary this month.

Noting Hillary Clinton looks much different now, he chalked it up to "millions of dollars" of "work" - plastic surgery.

"She looks good now," he said.

Spencer's bizarre comments came during a conversation with a reporter seated beside him and his wife, Kathy, on the 10:30 a.m. JetBlue flight Friday to Rochester, the site of the race's first debate.

In the wide-ranging chat, he also declared that his GOP running mate, attorney general hopeful Jeanine Pirro, was going to lose.

Howard Wolfson, an aide to Clinton, who turns 59 Thursday, said the senator has never had plastic surgery. But he declined otherwise to respond to Spencer's comments.

But Spencer's words crossed a political line that he has struggled to avoid during his underdog campaign against the former First Lady, a politician who inspires strong feelings among fans and foes alike.

He has limited most of his official comments to criticisms of Clinton for her doubts about the Iraq war, her opposition to tax cuts and her presidential ambitions.

In fund-raising letters, he has used more openly hostile language, allowing Clinton's aides to portray him as "angry" and out of control.

But few of Spencer's comments have been outside American political norm - and none before Friday had touched on Clinton's private life or personal appearance.

During yesterday's debate, he said there's nothing personal about their differences.

"I happen to like Hillary Clinton," he said, even declaring she would make a "tremendous" Democratic presidential candidate.

His remarks on Friday, though, show just how personal this campaign is to Spencer, a Vietnam vet who has always seen this campaign through the lens of a war he fought in and the Clintons protested.

His comments on her appearance came during a sporadic conversation as Spencer checked out the television on the seat in front of him ("My man Columbo's on!") and then settled into reading The New York Times. (In his words, "Checking in on the enemy.")

Spencer, the former mayor of Yonkers, dwelt at length on the contrast between his direct, honest and unfiltered style - and what he sees as the phony, controlled and staged nature of much of American politics.

"What's the matter with ruffling feathers?" he asked at one point.

The remarks about Clinton's looks followed a conversation about Pirro.

With a New York magazine story about Pirro's troubled marriage open in his wife's lap, Spencer offered some sympathy for his GOP running mate.

"Very bright woman," he said of Pirro, whom he once accused of using her old post as Westchester district attorney to probe enemies and shield allies.

He blamed her recent problems on her reliance on handlers and consultants.

Spencer had less kind words for her husband, Al, whose crimes, misdemeanors and ill-timed remarks have dogged her campaign against Andrew Cuomo.

"S-A-D, sad," Spencer said of Al Pirro, saying his own status as a recovering alcoholic helped him understand what he called Pirro's egotism.

"He's like a 12-year-old," he said.

"And Andy Cuomo's going to win," Spencer added.

A spokesman for Jeanine Pirro did not immediately comment.

 

[Irvine511]

pathetic.

but if Drudge is going to talk about Kerry getting botoxed, well, we know that nothing is off limits.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well I guess commenting on a woman's looks and why her jusband ever married her is the last refuge of a chauvinist, desperate man. When you feel threatened in any way by a woman, resort to that. I have seen men do that and have experienced it myself.

Can anyone think of any instance in which that was done to a man by a woman? In politics or any other public position of prominence?

But Drudge was not Kerry's opponent

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well now he says the reporter just fabricated the whole thing

(AP) Sen. Hillary Clinton's Republican challenger on Monday flatly denied telling a reporter that Clinton was unattractive when she was younger and suggesting she had had "millions of dollars" of "work."

John Spencer, a former Yonkers mayor, acknowledged talking to the reporter during a flight on Friday but said he didn't make the statements attributed to him in Monday's New York Daily News.

"It's a fabrication. I would never call Hillary Clinton ugly," Spencer told The Associated Press. "That's outrageous. I didn't do it."

The reporter, Ben Smith, told the AP that Spencer made the comments as Spencer, his wife and Smith sat together. He said he didn't tape- record the comments but did take notes.

 

[U2Man]

is john kerry running for president in 2008?

 

[Irvine511]

is john kerry running for president in 2008?

most likely.

 

[U2democrat]

Here's my list of possible Dem candidates (no particular order):
Hillary Clinton
John Kerry
John Edwards
Evan Bayh
Russ Feingold
Joe Biden
Barack Obama
Wesley Clark
Bill Richardson

Did I leave off anyone?

 

[LyricalDrug]

Here's my list of possible Dem candidates (no particular order):
Hillary Clinton
John Kerry
John Edwards
Evan Bayh
Russ Feingold
Joe Biden
Barack Obama
Wesley Clark
Bill Richardson

Did I leave off anyone?

There have been the usual Gore rumors, too, but it's probably too early to tell. Otherwise, I think you've got all of 'em.

 

[LyricalDrug]

Hillary Clinton will be the next President of the United States. You can take that to the bank. The Clintons don't get swift-boated, they run incredibly effective and scrappy campaigns, and they don't lose elections.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I'm sure he knew the reporter didn't tape it it so he figures he can just deny it. He's quite lame.


(AP) Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton accused her Republican challenger of getting into "swampy territory" after he was quoted Monday as saying that Clinton was unattractive when she was younger and that she had a lot of work done on herself. John Spencer denied discussing the senator's looks during a conversation with a New York Daily News reporter.

The tabloid quoted Spencer as saying: "You ever see a picture of her back then? Whew. I don't know why Bill married her."

Spencer, former mayor of the New York City suburb of Yonkers, was also quoted as saying that Clinton underwent millions of dollars of "work" and "looks good now."

During a campaign stop at a senior citizens center in Watervliet, just outside Albany, Clinton said: "It's unfortunate that when you don't have anything positive to say about the issues that we can get off in some pretty swampy territory."

After the newspaper came out, Spencer said the comments were "a fabrication. I would never call Hillary Clinton ugly. That's outrageous. I didn't do it."

The newspaper's front-page headline screamed "GETTING UGLY."

The reporter, Ben Smith, spoke with Spencer during a flight Friday from New York City to Rochester. He told the AP that Spencer made the comments as Spencer, his wife and Smith sat together. He said he did not tape-record the comments but took notes on his Blackberry.

Clinton adviser Howard Wolfson said Clinton has had no plastic surgery or similar appearance-enhancing work.

"I'm not sure what's worse, that Mr. Spencer made these insulting comments or that instead of owning up and apologizing for them, he is lying about them," Wolfson added. "Either way, it's clear that he is unfit for the U.S. Senate."

Clinton joked with reporters during her stop in Watervliet that "my high-school picture was cute." It was also on the tabloid's front page.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

most likely.

Ok, it's all out now. I feel better.

 

[BonosSaint]

Re: Spencer

If his comments were quoted accurately and I have no reason right now to believe they weren't (denial notwithstanding), it's a nice little tie-in to the thread on women's physical image. Slam a man on his ideas. Slam a woman on her looks.

 

[blueyedpoet]

Let us pray for Obama!

 

[U2Man]

but if john kerry runs for president, won't he have the most money to spend on the campaign (from the last election - i remember that he far from used all of the donated money)? - and probably the biggest backing in the party, too.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Let us pray for Obama!

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, I just want to see what he does over a little more than two years.

That said, when I saw the magazines with his picture on the cover and "2008", I admit getting a bit .

 

[U2Man]

who is the most likely republican candidate, do you think?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Re: Spencer

If his comments were quoted accurately and I have no reason right now to believe they weren't (denial notwithstanding), it's a nice little tie-in to the thread on women's physical image. Slam a man on his ideas. Slam a woman on her looks.

Exactly-and where are the men slamming Spencer? *sound of crickets chirping*

This is what the reporter says in today's NY Daily News

What John Spencer said, blow by blow

At least John Spencer didn't call her a lesbian.

The former mayor of Yonkers kept busy yesterday trying to hide from snide comments he made to me about Sen. Hillary Clinton - but then found himself apologizing for yet another remark he says he may or may not have made.

Before his two debates against Clinton, Spencer reportedly joked to The Journal News of Westchester, "As long as I don't call her a lesbian, I'm okay."

Spencer said he didn't recall whether he used the word lesbian, but apologized if he had.

He was less remorseful for the remarks he made to me about Clinton, or for some slightly less caustic digs about Republican running mate Jeanine Pirro - who wasn't exactly rushing to his defense. "No one really takes John Spencer seriously," Pirro spokesman John Gallagher said.

But with Spencer calling my account of the conversation a "fabrication," it seems useful to supply some context.

Spencer and his wife, Kathy, by chance, sat beside me on a Friday morning JetBlue flight to Rochester. Spencer read The New York Times, I read The New Yorker, and early in the trip, Kathy opened New York magazine to its cover story on Al and Jeanine Pirro, the troubled state attorney general candidate.

The story prompted John Spencer to offer his opinion that Jeanine was a smart woman with potential, but who listened too closely to her consultants.

He also said that, as a recovering alcoholic, he understood and sympathized with Al's psychological problems.

The casual conversation then turned to a black-and-white picture of Pirro, dated to 1978, that appeared in the magazine. The three of us remarked on how much her looks have changed, and speculated (fairly cattily, on all sides) on whether she'd had "work" - that is, plastic surgery.

"Work?" Spencer interjected. "What about Hillary?"

Spencer then launched into an unprovoked riff about Clinton's appearance.

"You ever see a picture of her back then? Whew," he said of Clinton's youth. "I don't know why Bill married her." He speculated she'd had "millions of dollars" of plastic surgery, and added that she looks good now. Spencer observed that "both of them" [Clinton and Pirro] must have had work done.

The candidate also dwelled on his own comparison between his unvarnished willingness to speak the truth and the heavily managed campaigns of Clinton and Pirro.

But his own story appeared to change overnight. His campaign manager, Rob Ryan, called The News on Sunday night to belittle the impending cover story as "gotcha s--t" - but didn't deny his boss' quotes. Once The News hit the stands yesterday, Spencer got started on his denials.

He veered between defending Clinton's honor and suggesting she had planted the story to overshadow his performance in two debates. On MSNBC, he suggested I'm "on Clinton's payroll."

And the only talk of an apology came later in the day, when his campaign manager demanded The News apologize - not to Spencer, but to Clinton, my supposed boss.

Originally published on October 24, 2006

 

[Irvine511]

Exactly-and where are the men slamming Spencer? *sound of crickets chirping*

do you mean in here or out there?

because, if you mean in here, i don't think that's fair.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well I meant more "out there" but I've come to not expect it in here (except for you and a few others, probably a handful or slightly more than a handful). I don't see what's unfair about that, it's just reality from my time here and my observations.