so ... Mitt Romney.

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Irvine511

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politics and policies aside, let's take a look at the man.

much of the discussion from the right wing of the country since George W. Bush appeared on the scene has been about how religion and faith matter, that we don't need and shouldn't want a firewall between political life and religious life, and it's fairly clear that many have voted for W mostly because of his evangelical protestanism.

so ... does Romney's Mormanism make you more or less likely to vote for him?

be honest.
 
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Romney wouldn't make me follow Mormonism any more that Bush makes me follow Christianity.

This is an excellent question as it forces separation of the political/cultural issues from the personal faith of a leader.
 
nbcrusader said:
This is an excellent question as it forces separation of the political/cultural issues from the personal faith of a leader.



yes -- this is precisely what i'm hoping to get at.

:hyper:

(eagerly awaits more responses)
 
Romney loves to take credit for a lot of things he really can't take credit for. For all his recent national spotlight, it should never be forgotten that he's nothing but a figurehead governor thanks to the overwhelmingly Democratic legislature that overrides every veto he dishes out.

And as for whether he's a Mormon would affect my vote? It doesn't help that the Church of Ladder Day Saints is one of the most virulently homophobic ones in the country, but, even then, his actions and words speak louder than his religion. If he was the same person with the same words and actions and was an atheist, I'd hate him all the same.

So I guess his religious affiliation really doesn't register too directly in my distaste for him.

Melon
 
melon said:
If he was the same person with the same words and actions and was an atheist, I'd hate him all the same.



but doesn't this beg the question of whether he would be the same man if he were an atheist? (and as an aside, could an atheist ever be that homophobic, or does contemporary homophobia need religion to operate? but that could be another thread ...) i understand your point, but the argument that has been made by the right wing is that faith and politics directly inform one another, as they rightly should. therefore, it seems as if your distaste for Romney, by their view, is directly due to his religion.
 
Irvine511 said:
but doesn't this beg the question of whether he would be the same man if he were an atheist? (and as an aside, could an atheist ever be that homophobic, or does contemporary homophobia need religion to operate? but that could be another thread ...) i understand your point, but the argument that has been made by the right wing is that faith and politics directly inform one another, as they rightly should. therefore, it seems as if your distaste for Romney, by their view, is directly due to his religion.

Well, I'll be a little more realistic in my comparison. Romney could theoretically be Roman Catholic or Southern Baptist and hold identical theological beliefs at the political level.

I haven't exactly seen Romney hold an exclusively "Mormon belief" politically, that's all. In practice, though, I guess most Mormons running for office would be on the far-right, and I'd never vote for someone who holds conservative beliefs.

Melon
 
Who cares what religion he is? Why do Americans care about stuff like this?

I know our Prime Minister is Christian but I have no idea what denomination nor do I care nor do I find it particularly relevant to anything. Especially given that Christianity is so pervasive in US politics, I don't really see any difference between a Mormon and a Baptist insofar as policy is concerned.

Apart from that, he strikes me as incredibly fake.
 
anitram said:
Who cares what religion he is? Why do Americans care about stuff like this?

Because Americans, statistically, vote on image instead of substance. It's probably why we have a rather consistent record of voting in idiots.

Melon
 
U2democrat said:
His being mormon wouldn't affect my vote either way, its whether or not he would force his beliefs on others that would change my mind.

The problem with the discussion is the broad and varying definition of "force his beliefs on others."

Too many mix the institution of political/cultural positions with 'forcing of religion' - which is exactly what Irvine was trying to avoid.
 
melon said:


. In practice, though, I guess most Mormons running for office would be on the far-right, and I'd never vote for someone who holds conservative beliefs.

Melon


ignorance isn't always bliss:
news.jpg


Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, Democrat-Mormon?:angry:

No other member of the LDS Church has served in a higher leadership position in Congress.

dbs
:wink:
 
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Is he ^ Mormon? I suppose that explains his conservative stance on abortion.
I need to work on my disliking political leaders because of their religious beliefs. Prejudice is prejudice.
Nevertheless, I wish a person's religious beliefs didn't come into play at all in American politics.
 
nbcrusader said:
Romney wouldn't make me follow Mormonism any more that Bush makes me follow Christianity.

This is an excellent question as it forces separation of the political/cultural issues from the personal faith of a leader.

should an elected official use their personal faith to inform what laws they want to enact?
 
blueyedpoet said:
Is he ^ Mormon? I suppose that explains his conservative stance on abortion.
I need to work on my disliking political leaders because of their religious beliefs. Prejudice is prejudice.
Nevertheless, I wish a person's religious beliefs didn't come into play at all in American politics.
There is good prejudice, one need not be tolerant of intolerance
 
diamond said:
Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, Democrat-Mormon?:angry:

I forgot about him being a Mormon. Thanks for the reminder.

However, if you remember correctly, he was appointed to that position, because Democrats wanted to look conservative...heh.

Melon
 
anitram said:
he strikes me as incredibly fake

He is :wink:

I don't care one iota about the fact that he is a Mormon, I do care that he is becoming more and more like an ultra conservative whatever and "changing his mind" on several things in order to become President. I also think he has been a poor Governor- then again he was just using it as a stepping stone, of course he's not the only one to ever do that. I didn't vote for him and I would never vote for him for President.
 
His Mormonism doesn't mean anything to me. I have a Mormon friend who claims she's the only Democratic Mormon on the planet. If I lived in Massachusetts, I don't think I'd be voting for this guy based on on his policy, not his religion. It works the same way with Catholicism. Yesterday I got a fund-raising thingie in the mail from some right wing Catholic group that's crucifying James Carville for being pro-gay-marriage and a liberal in general. It ended up in my friendly local trash receptacle.
 
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BonoVoxSupastar said:
Religion shouldn't matter in politics until it becomes apparent.

But that simply falls back to blurring the lines between personal faith and political/cultural stances. Often it is a surrogate for political discussion.

Are the people of Mass any closer to Mormonism as a result of Romney? Are the people of the US any closer to Christianity as a result of Bush?

I think the answer to both is: no.
 
nbcrusader said:


But that simply falls back to blurring the lines between personal faith and political/cultural stances.

Well this is exactly what I'm talking about. When one ignores logic and what's best for the people due to a personal religious belief, i.e. stem cell research.


nbcrusader said:

Are the people of the US any closer to Christianity as a result of Bush?

:lol: No, probably much further.:wink:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Well this is exactly what I'm talking about. When one ignores logic and what's best for the people due to a personal religious belief, i.e. stem cell research.


Is it purely personal religious beliefs, or a set of cultural values that goes beyond matters of faith.
 
I'm not sure I share the same conclusion. Evangelical Christianity has no specific teaching on stem cells. Step into the borader cultural realm of life (specifically, asking when life begins) and you struggle with this question.

If people of different faiths come to the same conclusion, is it still driven by faith, or a broader cultural notion?
 
nbcrusader said:
If people of different faiths come to the same conclusion, is it still driven by faith, or a broader cultural notion?

But even then, the traditional "cultural notions" are often influenced by religion; perhaps not the specific denominations of today, but just as humanity can trace itself to a few common cultural heritages (i.e., Indo-European for all of Europe and much of the Middle East), religion can be categorized in similar fashions.

Melon
 
He may have been illegally mobilizing people and organizations within the church to fundraise for his candidacy - religious organizations aren't allowed to do so. Too lazy to dig up the articles now but they were in the Globe about a month ago.

If you go looking for those articles, make sure you click on the recent ones about his Mittness employing illegal immigrants to manicure his lawn. I'm pretty sure that'll sink his primary candidacy.
 
Oh well, his lawn looks great courtesy of all those illegal immigrants his lawn company employed. Good thing they made it here before that 700 mile fence he endorses could be built, or his big fancy lawn would have been full of weeds and crabgrass.

He stands there screaming about letting the people vote on gay marriage while he takes a hatchet to critical human services. He's an opportunistic hypocrite.
 
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