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Old 12-04-2006, 06:55 PM   #81
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


The Democrats do not get it....it was not a vote for them....it was a vote against the war....and that will not carry the day in two years....
See, the Dems do get this, and will try in the next 2 years to prove to the country that there are other reasons to vote blue by improving the economic situation for especially the middle class. I don't know if we'll be successful, but the leadership isn't stupid - they know why we won the majority and what the composition of those districts are.

And with that, I give up on this thread.
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Old 12-04-2006, 08:13 PM   #82
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Why did it evolve into a discussion about illegals?? Why do all discussions have to lead into such nasty fights?

Never mind don't answer that.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:36 AM   #83
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Appears to me from the past that Mrs. S. has posted a variety of concerns about Mr. Romney for well over a year and she isn't determining her opinion on some kind of knee jerk reaction based on this one issue as some of the other posts might seem to suggest whether that was intended or not.

I don't follow Massachusetts politics closely and it's not my state so I choose not to have an opinion on this particular, but certainly one of the hypocrisies of the "Stop the illegals" movement is the failure to crack down on the source of incentive for the illegals--the employers. It's purely political talk for the politically ambitious.

(For full disclosure, I am the grandchild of an illegal immigrant. I don't get too worked up about the illegal immigration debate. I've ranted about it in the past. I'm sure I've come across on occasion as a xenophobe when I've thought it was reasonable to control your border, to know who is entering your country and for what purpose, to balance between the benefits the illegals bring and the drain on limited resources--to know what we can handle and what we cannot.

But really this issue isn't about illegals, it's about the growing strength of Hispanics and the growing fear of Muslims. It's about the changing of the demographics of a country and a natural fear about how that is going to affect you. It's about concern that you are going to get even less of that limited amount of pie you've been able to scrape onto your plate, that the very little amount of privilege you've worked so hard for is being taken away, your identity is being superceded. I watch both sides of the issue. I watch how the politicians and others work up this frenzy when if the frenzy wasn't worked up so hard, you might not even notice so much. We're conditioned to notice it now.
(Much like the supposed War on Christmas, when I doubt whether any of us noticed before whether somebody said "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays") And you know, the irony of it is, they could enforce these laws they already have on the books. They could gather the resources together they needed to do it if they really wanted to. You wouldn't need to work up the crowd. But then it wouldn't be an issue.

But on the whole, if the only law they are breaking is crossing the border and up to the point we can handle the inflow and if our real (not imaginary) quality of life is not affected, I don't care.

Not too many of us are American citizens by virtue of our merits. We are, by chance of birth.

Now that I have totally derailed this thread.
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:10 AM   #84
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Originally posted by U2Girl1978
Why did it evolve into a discussion about illegals?? Why do all discussions have to lead into such nasty fights?

Never mind don't answer that.
Why ask why?
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:03 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Girl1978
Why did it evolve into a discussion about illegals?? Why do all discussions have to lead into such nasty fights?

Never mind don't answer that.
Well it got "nasty" only because apparently some people feel that FYM is below their intelligence level and want to insist that others feel and think a certain way apparently in an apparent effort to bolster that belief. If it's that bad I don't know why you'd (the general you or anyone who feels that way) bother coming here at all. I don't appreciate being talked to and treated in that way, and I'm not going to just let it slide.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:00 AM   #86
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Mrs S,

It's your universe and we just wanna be a part of it.
Can we come in and play?




dbs
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:12 AM   #87
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Well it got "nasty" only because apparently some people feel that FYM is below their intelligence level and want to insist that others feel and think a certain way apparently in an apparent effort to bolster that belief. If it's that bad I don't know why you'd (the general you or anyone who feels that way) bother coming here at all. I don't appreciate being talked to and treated in that way, and I'm not going to just let it slide.
Ehm, ok? I barely come in here at all. Sometimes you just want to explore the site and just give opinion on certain matters. So I'm sorry if it seemed like my last post was aimed at you. It was not. I agreed with what you said about Mitt Romney.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:17 AM   #88
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Originally posted by diamond
Mrs S,

It's your universe and we just wanna be a part of it.
Can we come in and play?




dbs

Ah, the childhood pleasures of double-teaming somebody......remember them well.
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Old 12-05-2006, 12:55 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Girl1978


Ehm, ok? I barely come in here at all. Sometimes you just want to explore the site and just give opinion on certain matters. So I'm sorry if it seemed like my last post was aimed at you. It was not. I agreed with what you said about Mitt Romney.
I didn't want to post in this anymore, but I know your last post wasn't aimed at me at all and I was just quoting your post as a springboard to discuss what happened in this thread and why. You weren't questioning anyone's intelligence or the general intelligence level of FYM and coming across like you think yours is superior even if that's not the intent- so I didn't think you'd think at all that my post was directed at you. Sorry for the confusion
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:32 PM   #90
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Doesn't stand a chance for President - most right wing christian republicans believe the Mormans to be a cult. They'd never vote for this guy no matter how "family based" his policies are.
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Old 12-05-2006, 02:35 PM   #91
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Not true.

Most conserative christian voters would vote for Joel Liberman who isn't a Republican or Christian, he's Jewish ( due to Liberman's values and stance on the issues) over say Rudy G a Republican.

Go refigure Mr Vest.

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Old 12-05-2006, 03:44 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest
Doesn't stand a chance for President - most right wing christian republicans believe the Mormans to be a cult. They'd never vote for this guy no matter how "family based" his policies are.
I actually agree with this. Comparing Judaism and Christianity to Mormonism is like comparing apples and oranges to rocks.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:11 PM   #93
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there's tolerence for ya folks.


back to the topic, i do think conservatives would put aside different religious differences and vote for mitt before a watered down republican.




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Old 12-05-2006, 04:21 PM   #94
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It's a fact issue, not a tolerance issue.

There's history behind the Jewish and Christian texts. There's little to none when it comes to Mormonism. There's no archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. That's why the Smithsonian doesn't even recognize it.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:28 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


Well it got "nasty" only because apparently some people feel that FYM is below their intelligence level and want to insist that others feel and think a certain way apparently in an apparent effort to bolster that belief. If it's that bad I don't know why you'd (the general you or anyone who feels that way) bother coming here at all. I don't appreciate being talked to and treated in that way, and I'm not going to just let it slide.
And I now officially retract my apology.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Please note the wink....it was meant to be funny. If you care to continue this diatribe, I am available through PM. I will now contact Dave Letterman Jessie Jackson to appear on their shows to humble myself even more.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:32 PM   #96
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Originally posted by anitram


Apart from that, he strikes me as incredibly fake.
And that is what has turned me off to the man. I feel that at a minimum, he has moved from being the person I voted for, to a candidate for President. When this transition occure, he moved towards the right on almost every issue I can think of. In particular the gay marriage issue and his educational policies have completely soured me on him.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:34 PM   #97
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
Doesn't stand a chance for President - most right wing christian republicans believe the Mormans to be a cult. They'd never vote for this guy no matter how "family based" his policies are.
I think the right wing would go for him, as long as he espouses their beliefs politically.

He has a beeter chance than Rudy at getting their support.
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:35 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
It's a fact issue, not a tolerance issue.

There's history behind the Jewish and Christian texts. There's little to none when it comes to Mormonism. There's no archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. That's why the Smithsonian doesn't even recognize it.
Who said Mitt was going to have his constituents read the Book of Mormon?

I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.

Quote:
I think the right wing would go for him, as long as he espouses their beliefs politically.
Quote:
He has a better chance than Rudy at getting their support.
Dread has it right here and he isn't even a Republican; but a very tolerant Christian whom I've come to know here and personally.

Lastly if you look at our standard beliefs posted below most would say that they interface well with most Christian beliefs:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints



We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.


We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.


We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.


We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.


We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.


We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.


We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.


We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.


We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.


We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.


We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.


We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.


We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

out,

dbs
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:14 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Who said Mitt was going to have his constituents read the Book of Mormon?

I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.

I never said he was going to have people read the book of mormon. In fact, if he's the man for the job, so be it. His faith alone shouldn't be the reason to vote against him. I'm bringing this up because I was refering to the comment earlier about how the religious right (of which I'm not a part of), won't support Romney.

If the lack of archeological evidence for the book doesn't bother you, that's fine. I know it bothers people who hear Mormonism being called Christian, when it's not.


Quote:


Lastly if you look at our standard beliefs posted below most would say that they interface well with most Christian beliefs:
Although I'm sure you're a great guy and you sincerely believe your faith, this is not a true statement. Christian scholars and even regular religious scholars would agree with me on this.

Quote:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Yes, you do believe that, but you don't believe in the Trinity, which is essential Christian doctorine. You believe in them as separate beings, not three in one. Most cults don't believe in the Trinity.

Quote:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We can't be saved by the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. There are no laws of the Gospel! We can't be saved by ANYTHING outside of God's grace through Christ's sacrifice and resurrection.

Quote:

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Baptism is a public sign of your faith, it doesn't get you into heaven though. You can be forgiven without it. Also, all you have to do to receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit is accept Christ and ask for them. You don't have to have hands laid on you.

Quote:

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
Of course you do, because the church's beliefs are constantly changing. Multiple wives are good. Multiple wives are bad. Black people are bad. Black people are good. Either this is all wrong, or God isn't the all-knowing, unchanging God that he claims to be.

Quote:

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
If they’re both of God, how do you explain Galatians 1:9 “As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”

Quote:

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
This must be in the book of mormon, because it's not what the Bible says.

Quote:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
So people can create their own truth?


Listen, there are admirable things in the Mormon faith, but it doesn't align with Christianity's core beliefs. It's worth looking into.
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:20 PM   #100
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Originally posted by diamond
I happen to view the Book of Mormon as a Christain text but that is not the issue and don't need archelogical to validate it's authenticity.
If there's any consolation, scholars have had a field day over the historicity of the Bible, but it hasn't stopped people from believing in it.

That's kind of why I chuckle about most organized religions these days. They each have their own "scholars" that point out all the flaws in "other" religions, while flat out dismissing the inconsistencies found in their own.
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