so ... Mitt Romney.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by Irvine511


no. i leave tomorrow for another shoot. is a stressful time.

the distinction is between the "fuck off, i got mine" Republicans and the "abortion is murder" Republicans.

I can tell you're off your game when you leave the "torture-loving Neocon Republicans" out of the equation.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by INDY500




I can tell you're off your game when you leave the "torture-loving Neocon Republicans" out of the equation.

see, what's so weird, is that the pro-torture crowd seems to fall into both camps.

one wants to torture because, "fuck off, i got mine, and they want to take it from me, and it's not me who's being tortured, so fuck em, it's not like my civil rights will ever be violated, that just happens to poor people and Jose Padilla," and the other is fine with torturing because, hey, they *are* Muslims.

[martha]

Irvine, you are on fire.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by Irvine511




see, what's so weird, is that the pro-torture crowd seems to fall into both camps.

one wants to torture because, "fuck off, i got mine, and they want to take it from me, and it's not me who's being tortured, so fuck em, it's not like my civil rights will ever be violated, that just happens to poor people and Jose Padilla," and the other is fine with torturing because, hey, they *are* Muslims.

If Republicans exist as the alternative to Democrats, then would it be fair to describe Democrats as either;

1) "Robin Hood" Democrats. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor.
2) "Roman Orgy" Democrats. Worshipping their own lust.
or
3) "Blame America" Democrats. Attributing all the worlds problems to the actions of the Unites States.

Or are Democrats alone way too-nuanced to be distilled down to such simple components?

[Infinity]

Originally posted by namkcuR


Gotcha.

They're only thinking of the general election.

As for McCain...I was pretty disgusted with him during the debate the other night when he wouldn't stop making digs at Romney and having a smug grin on his face afterwards. Not that I care for Romney, it's just that McCain's behavior was classless.

Yea it was very annoying and immature on his part. He did it when Romney spoke as well as when Ron Paul spoke. He was just being an ass. Fred Thompson by the way, was also an ass.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by INDY500

Or are Democrats alone way too-nuanced to be distilled down to such simple components?

depends if you're a political consultant or not.

[martha]

Originally posted by INDY500

2) "Roman Orgy" Democrats. Worshipping their own lust.

Can I be this one?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by martha


Can I be this one?

you know all the gays will be at that one.

[martha]

Originally posted by Irvine511
you know all the gays will be at that one.

Clean, buff guys? one more time

[maycocksean]

Originally posted by 2861U2


That's a terrible comparison. They host different types of shows. Cooper is hard news and Hannity is an opinion show. That's just like saying "Who's more likely to shout you down- Shepard Smith or Keith Olbermann?"

Fair enough. I confess I don't watch enough TV to comment accurately on this.

Nonetheless I wouldn't blame Obama or any other non-Right wing type for refusing to appear on a Fox opinion show.

[MrsSpringsteen]

I wonder if diamond has one of those thongs

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/off...rfect.mitt.cnn

[Zoocoustic]

FoxNews has more conservative hosts/programs, and the other channels seem to have more liberal hosts/programs. But I wouldn't call any of the channels' mainstream news slanted one way or the other.

I do find it quite interesting that, as pointed out already, Republicans will agree to appear on all of the above while Democrats fear FoxNews like it was the plague.

[verte76]

I'm just sick about Romney winning Michigan.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Wow, it's a straight shot right to Pennsylvania Avenue. I bet he's already packing.

[MrsSpringsteen]

As Bain slashed jobs, Romney stayed to side

By Robert Gavin, Globe Staff | January 27, 2008

In early 1995, as the Ampad paper plant in Marion, Ind., neared its shutdown following a bitter strike, Randy Johnson, a worker and union official, scrawled a personal letter to Mitt Romney, pouring out his disappointment that Romney, then chief executive of the investment firm that controlled Ampad, had not done enough to settle the strike and save some 200 jobs.

"We really thought you might help," Johnson said in the handwritten note, "but instead we heard excuses that were unacceptable from a man of your prominent position."

Romney, who had recently lost a Senate race in which the strike became a flashpoint, responded that he had "privately" urged a settlement, but was advised by lawyers not to intervene directly. His political interests, he explained, conflicted with his business responsibilities.

Now, Romney's decision to stay on the sidelines as his firm, Bain Capital, slashed jobs at the office supply manufacturer stands in marked contrast to his recent pledges to beleaguered auto workers in Michigan and textile workers in South Carolina to "fight to save every job."

Throughout his 15-year career at Bain Capital, which bought, sold, and merged dozens of companies, Romney had other chances to fight to save jobs, but didn't. His ultimate responsibility was to make money for Bain's investors, former partners said.

Much as he did when running for Massachusetts governor, Romney is now touting his business credentials as he campaigns for president, asserting that he helped create thousands of jobs as CEO of Bain. But a review of Bain's investments during Romney's tenure indicates that job growth was not a particular priority.

Romney's approach at Bain Capital was more reflective of the economic philosophy articulated by his opponent, John McCain: to acknowledge that some less efficient jobs will be lost and concentrate on creating new jobs with potential for higher growth.

In many cases, such as Staples Inc., the Framingham retailer, and Steel Dynamics Inc., an Indiana steelmaker, the companies expanded and added thousands of jobs. In other cases, such as Ampad and GS Industries, another steelmaker, Bain-controlled companies shuttered plants, slashed hundreds of jobs, and landed in bankruptcy.

But in almost all cases Bain Capital made money. In fact, the firm earned substantially more from Ampad than Staples. Staples returned about $13 million on a $2 million investment; Ampad yielded more than $100 million on $5 million, according to reports to investors.

"It's not that employment grows, it's that their investment grows," said Howard Anderson, a professor at MIT's Sloan School of Management. "Sometimes its expansion, and sometimes it's shutting things down."

Romney's spokesman acknowledged that layoffs sometimes are necessary for a company's health.

"Governor Romney is not critical of companies that have to reduce their workforce in order to remain competitive. He is critical of Washington politicians who throw up their hands in despair and say there's nothing we can do about it," said Eric Fehrnstrom, a campaign spokesman. "Governor Romney can't promise that he will bring back lost jobs, but he can guarantee that he will fight for every job."

Bain Capital is a private equity firm that invests in start-ups and established firms. It provides venture capital for emerging companies, such as Staples in the 1980s, but specializes in leveraged buyouts. Leveraged buyouts combine small amounts of investors' money with large amounts of borrowed money to buy established companies, increase their value, and resell them at a profit.

Increasing value means boosting profits. That can require a range of approaches including cost-cutting, modernizing plants, adding products, expanding into new markets, and acquiring similar companies.

Bain employed all these strategies under Romney. It's impossible to say precisely if more jobs were created than cut by Bain since the firm does not track employment in its investments. But Bain officials say the companies in which they invested added more jobs than they cut.

Geoffrey Rehnert, a former Bain partner, said Bain often increased employment to boost the value of the company. In one of its first deals, for example, Bain acquired an Illinois manufacturer of medical diagnostic trailers that travel from hospital to hospital, and quickly expanded its national sales force. Sales tripled and employment grew to roughly 150 from 90 in the 27 months that Bain owned it, said Rehnert.

"The profit improvements which Bain companies generated were driven mostly by growth, and not slash and burn cost cutting," said Rehnert, now co-chief executive at another Boston investment firm, Audax Group. "While it wasn't the primary objective, there was actually a very strong record of job creation across Bain Capital's portfolio."

The primary objective, of course, was to make money. That meant every job couldn't be saved. Some strategies, such as a roll-ups, are designed at the outset to cut jobs. In roll-ups, similar firms in the same industry are acquired and combined to boost revenues while eliminating duplicative jobs, particularly in administrative areas such as payroll, personnel, and information technology.

Bain embarked on a roll-up after acquiring Ampad in 1992. Two years later, Ampad bought the office supplies division, including the Marion, Ind., plant , of typewriter maker Smith Corona. Ampad shuttered the Indiana plant in 1995, moving equipment and production to other Ampad factories.

In 1996, another Bain company, Dade International, a maker of medical diagnostic equipment, bought a similar unit of E.I. du Pont de Nemours and Co., of Wilmington, Del. Dade soon shut down two plants and cut more than 700 jobs, according to government filings. The next year, Dade merged with Behring Diagnostics, a German company, to form Dade Behring Inc. Dade Behring shut three US plants, affecting more than 1,000 workers, some of whom were offered transfers to other facilities.

Sometimes, Bain cut jobs to right underperforming companies. In 1997, after acquiring Live Entertainment, later known as Artisan Entertainment, the producer of the hit film "Blair Witch Project," Bain slashed 40 jobs, about 25 percent of the workforce, according to The Hollywood Reporter. Midwest of Cannon Falls, Minn., a giftware distributor, cut 40 jobs, or about 10 percent of its workforce, less than a year after Bain bought a "significant" stake in the company.

In assessing deals, Romney and partners didn't consider whether they saved or created jobs, according to a former Bain employee who requested anonymity, citing confidentiality guidelines. When Bain partners discussed shutting down failing businesses in which they invested, Romney never suggested they had to do something to save workers' jobs. "It was very clinical," the former employee said. "Like a doctor. When the patient is dead, you just move on to the next patient."

While Bain Capital has one of the investment industry's best track records in terms of return to its investors, it did have failures. Companies acquired through leveraged buyouts are particularly vulnerable to changing conditions because of their heavy debt. Should cash flow diminish by a few percentage points, these companies can miss debt payments and plunge into bankruptcy.

Bain acquired GS Industries in 1993. The steelmaker borrowed heavily to modernize plants in Kansas City and North Carolina, as well as pay dividends to Bain investors. But as foreign competition increased and steel prices fell in the late 1990s, the company struggled to support the debt, according to Mark Essig, the former CEO. GS filed for bankruptcy in 2001, and shut down its money-losing Kansas City plant, throwing some 750 employees out of work.

Ampad, too, became squeezed between onerous debt that had financed acquisitions and falling prices for its office-supply products. Its biggest customers - including Staples - used their buying power and access to Asian suppliers to demand lower prices from Ampad.

Romney sat on Staples's board of directors at this time.

Creditors forced Ampad into bankruptcy in early 2000, and hundreds of workers lost jobs during Ampad's decline. Bain Capital and its investors, however, had already taken more than $100 million out of the company, in debt-financed dividends, management fees, and proceeds from selling shares on public stock exchanges.

By the time Ampad failed, Randy Johnson, the former union official in Marion, Ind., had moved on with his life. After the Indiana plant shut down, he worked nearly six months to help the workers find new jobs. He later took a job at the United Paperworkers union.

"What I remember the most," said Johnson, "were the guys in their 50s, breaking down and crying."

In his reply to Johnson's letter, Romney said the Ampad strike had hurt his 1994 bid to unseat Senator Edward M. Kennedy, and no one had a greater interest in seeing the strike settled than he.

"I was advised by counsel that I could not play a role in the dispute," Romney explained, adding, "I hope you understand I could not direct or order Ampad to settle the strike or keep the plant open or otherwise do what might be in my personal interest."

[diamond]

Apparently Mitt is not giving up yet.
I don't know if this is wise, but he can afford to do this.
I have no illusions, I do think McCain will eventually get the GOP
nomination.

That said, a similar thing happened in 1976, between Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan. The GOP took the establishment/moderate instead of Reagan, and the country elected Carter.

Reagan came in 4 years later-1980. I think similarily Romney can come back in 2012-when the world is in a bigger mess, thanks to McCain or Hillary.

Here's the article:

Friday, February 01, 2008



MITT ROMNEY

Highlights From Mitt Romney’s Conference Call


Moments ago, Mitt Romney completed a brief conference call with conservative bloggers.


Mitt Romney: It’s been fun to watch the Democratic race, Hillary and Obama are really going at it. I think Hillary has won four, Barack has won two. The national media says it’s not a done deal on that side. But it’s a different story on our side, apparently. We’ve had seven, Huck won one, John McCain and I have each won three.

And that last one was “very, very close indeed.” The Crist and Martinez support made a difference as well as Senator McCain’s false accusation about my support of pulling troops out of Iraq.

I give him a slight edge, but it’s a two man race now. It’s very unlikely Mike Huckabee emerges as our nominee… but he takes a slice of conservative voters who otherwise would come to me.

It is a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party.

Romney compares this race to 1976, Ford vs. Reagan. “Reagan was the Washington outsider with a message of positive change. We picked the insider, the more moderate, the more established. We lost, and the cost of that was Jimmy Carter… I don’t want to say I’m Ronald Reagan. I’m not, there’s only one. And I respect Jerry Ford. But in some respects, there are some similarities.”



He says McCain has “scores to settle.” "We have different philosophies. McCain Feingold is a disaster. I would repeal it if I could."


Hits McCain-Kennedy immigration, says McCain would sign it into law if he could.


"When only one nation participates in McCain’s climate change legislation, high-carbon industries will just move overseas."


Notes McCain voted against tax cuts, voted against ANWR.

"I have an optimistic, I’ll-fight-for-every-job attitude."

Reid Wilson: Why delay in buying ads?

Romney: It took 24 hours, wanted to figure out which states would be best for us. Wanted to take into account Florida, Rudy’s departure, Rudy’s endorsement.

Ed Morrissey: What are your strong states on Tuesday?

Romney: It’s very possible nothing is decided on Tuesday. There are other scenarios, but I think this goes on… We have number of states we think we can win, that we think we have a good shot, that we think we have a good shot, and states that aren’t good for us. I don’t know if I want to reveal which states are which.

California is a state that is good for us. 54 districts. When you have something that big, it gives you some encouragement. We’re doing well in some winner-take-all. Some are apportioned, even if we can’t win, we can pick up some delegates there. It’s a complicated matrix you have to go through.

When Sean Hannity says he’s voting for me, when Laura Ingraham says she’s endorsing me…

Rush has been going after McCain pretty aggressively. Michael Reagan has been pretty aggressive. The world of conservatism is pretty solidly behind my effort.

Rasmussen has McCain up 28 to 26 nationally – he should do well in some places, I should do well in some places.

I was talking to one governor, and he said, ‘I’m gonna wait until the end, see who is ahead, and that’s who I’m going to endorse.’

Amanda Carpenter: How is McCain is winning economic voters?

Romney: I scratched my head on that. It’s very possible that in Florida, most people thought top issue was economy. Then the governor endorsed. Forty percent said that the governor’s decision was important in their decision. You had two things that may not be causal, and he may have gotten more support than he otherwise would have.

I missed Phil Klein’s inquiry, but it sounds like Romney said he wasn’t aware of what was going out in the robo-calls criticizing McCain’s vote on Medicare reform…

“I’ll look into that call and make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

Dean Barnett: Iraq war is going to be settled one way or the other in the next few years. What is the next front on the war on terror?

Romney: We’re going to continue to see flare-ups. Pakistan is going to have everyone holding their breath. Afghanistan is not finished. When I visited Afghanistan, I concluded, ‘Iraq is going to be easier to fix than Afghanistan.’ Their economy and infrastructure are like 800 years old.

Cites Aznar of Spain calling for help in intelligence and advice to other countries, a comprehensive global basis.

And with that, it was off to Colorado for Romney.


02/01 12:02 PM

[Zoocoustic]

^I'm going to agree with diamond...McCain will win the GOP nod, lose the election. Then the country goes to hell. And someone from the GOP (possibly Romney, but I'm not sure) will will in 2012, have inherited a mess, and will have a big job ahead of him/her in fixing the country.

Get busy saving for four years of insane taxes! Get ready for a whole new day of massive recession! The liberals are coming back into power!!!

[2861U2]

Originally posted by Zoocoustic
McCain will win the GOP nod, lose the election.

I really don't think so. RCP has him beating both Clinton and Obama right now, by 1.8 and 1.5, respectively. McCain/Obama will be a very close race, and I've give a slight edge to Obama. McCain/Clinton would be a very good race for McCain. Clinton would certainly be the underdog.

Again, McCain vs. Hillary vs. Nader would be magnificent.

[anitram]

Originally posted by 2861U2


Again, McCain vs. Hillary vs. Nader would be magnificent.

Throw in Ron Paul and Huckabee and it would be an absolute party.

[BVS]

I think Obama could take out McCain easily, but it would be a tight race.

I think the Clinton team could actually take out McCain, but it would be a dirty race. We've already seen McCain taken out by Bush with dirty politics. Plus you would have all the CoulterNeoCons coming over to Hillary's side.