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Old 12-11-2007, 10:55 AM   #81
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Originally posted by 2861U2


From what I understand, very little about the disease was known, and as Huckabee has said, quarantine is the proper thing to do medically when you've got a virus that is deadly and nobody knows much about it. People in here are making it sound like it was a shot against gay people. It wasn't. I fully believe he would have said the same thing regardless of what disease it was. Again, very little was known about AIDS, and nobody in this thread has provided evidence to the contrary. Also, it's upsetting that people in here are attacking Huckabee for acknowledging that he said this. What would you rather have? Have Huckabee deny that he ever said it?

and deep said it best: Huckabee's statement would have been understandable in 1982, but this was 1992. everyone knew HIV wasn't spread by casual contact like the flu. everyone knew this.

if HIV was killing white soccer moms in the suburbs, no one, ever, would mention words like "quarantine." but since HIV, at first, affected such viewed-as-less-than-human undesirables -- gays, IV drug users, Haitians -- such statements could be made.

again, 1982 would have been much, much, much different than 1992.

and it's not Huckabee denying what he said, he's refused to say that his call for a quarantine in 1992 of the HIV infected was wrong.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:57 AM   #82
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


For me I can't see how anyone who knows anything about the teachings of Christ and how much he spoke about caring for the sick could say such a thing, it baffles me.
Fair point. However, human beings are not Jesus. Jesus could walk up to a leper and touch him and he would be healed. It isnt quite that simply for us. We need to take precaution in treating diseases. And it isnt like Huckabee or anyone else wasn't caring for the sick. I'm sure he does. But again, there are steps you may have to take when dealing with something like this.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:59 AM   #83
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Fair point. However, human beings are not Jesus. Jesus could walk up to a leper and touch him and he would be healed. It isnt quite that simply for us. We need to take precaution in treating diseases. And it isnt like Huckabee or anyone else wasn't caring for the sick. I'm sure he does. But again, there are steps you may have to take when dealing with something like this.


this was 1992!!!
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:12 AM   #84
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Originally posted by Irvine511


this was 1992!!!
And? Tell me if I'm wrong Irvine (or anyone else), but we still don't know all there is to know about AIDS, right? We still don't have a cure for AIDS, right? 15+ years later.

Again, I don't think this was a move to isolate all gay people and remove them from society. I really don't. Hopefully none of you do. I don't know the history of AIDS or the "timeline" of what was known about it. I probably wouldn't have said what Huckabee said, but I'm certainly not going to hold it against him. Apparently I'm alone in that here.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:17 AM   #85
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These statements about religion are really scary. Keep religion out of politics. That's one thing that's wrong with Bush, he can't keep nutty fundamentalist religion out of his politics.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:21 AM   #86
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
"I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ."
Stuff like this isn't fair to people like Keith Ellison, the Muslim Congressman from Minnesota.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:31 AM   #87
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And? Tell me if I'm wrong Irvine (or anyone else), but we still don't know all there is to know about AIDS, right? We still don't have a cure for AIDS, right? 15+ years later.

Again, I don't think this was a move to isolate all gay people and remove them from society. I really don't. Hopefully none of you do. I don't know the history of AIDS or the "timeline" of what was known about it. I probably wouldn't have said what Huckabee said, but I'm certainly not going to hold it against him. Apparently I'm alone in that here.

what do you mean "and"? by 1992 we knew that AIDS wasn't spread through casual contact. it's far, far harder to catch HIV than it is to catch the flu, and way more people die from that every year than they do from AIDS.

you really, really need to do some reading on the history of AIDS before you make statements like this. if you want a good early history, i recommend And the Band Played On by Randy Shilts if you want a good history of the very early years (1979-1983).

by 1992, people knew how HIV was spread (do you?). they knew that you can't catch it like a cold or like that virus in "outbreak." all that quarantining would have done would have been to increase the stigmatization and shame of those who have the virus, it would have been a veritable scarlet "A."

yes, Huckabee's statement support the it isolation of *some* gay people -- most gay people do not have HIV, and gay men now make up less than half of all new infections in the US.

would you recommend rounding up African-American women, as they are the group with the fastest growing HIV infection rate?
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:43 AM   #88
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Originally posted by verte76
These statements about religion are really scary. Keep religion out of politics. That's one thing that's wrong with Bush, he can't keep nutty fundamentalist religion out of his politics.
Nutty fundamentalist? Believe it or not, many people like a candidate who is open about his faith. Case in point, Huckabee's rising numbers and the two victories by W.


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Originally posted by Irvine511
would you recommend rounding up African-American women, as they are the group with the fastest growing HIV infection rate?

Of course not.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:53 AM   #89
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Fair point. However, human beings are not Jesus. Jesus could walk up to a leper and touch him and he would be healed. It isnt quite that simply for us. We need to take precaution in treating diseases. And it isnt like Huckabee or anyone else wasn't caring for the sick. I'm sure he does. But again, there are steps you may have to take when dealing with something like this.
Not by separating them from society, that isn't care, that isn't treating, that's ignorance.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:54 AM   #90
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Of course not.


so why excuse the quarantining of people with HIV in 1992? do the rules change when you go from gay men to african-american women?

i understand that you aren't personally advocating this, but you are defending Huckabee's statement.

what's really going on here is that Huckabee politically can't retract what he said, lest he show something like respect for gay people. and we know how much the Republican base loathes gay people.
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:58 AM   #91
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Originally posted by 2861U2


And? Tell me if I'm wrong Irvine (or anyone else), but we still don't know all there is to know about AIDS, right? We still don't have a cure for AIDS, right? 15+ years later.

Again, I don't think this was a move to isolate all gay people and remove them from society. I really don't. Hopefully none of you do. I don't know the history of AIDS or the "timeline" of what was known about it. I probably wouldn't have said what Huckabee said, but I'm certainly not going to hold it against him. Apparently I'm alone in that here.
You don't sound very educated on the history of AIDS or even how it spreads, and it's 2007.

The rest of educated society had a pretty good grasp on how it spread in 1992, and we definately do now(at least most of us),no we don't have a cure, but we know you can't get it from a sneeze.

And I'm sure why you keep bringing up the "isolate all gay people", you do know that AIDS isn't a gay disease and that not all gay people have AIDS, please tell me you at least know this.

You and Huck need to do some research.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:07 PM   #92
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You don't sound very educated on the history of AIDS or even how it spreads, and it's 2007.
Maybe I'm not. But I'm not claiming to be. All I'm saying is I'm giving Huckabee the benefit of the doubt.


Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
And I'm sure why you keep bringing up the "isolate all gay people", you do know that AIDS isn't a gay disease and that not all gay people have AIDS, please tell me you at least know this.
Yes, I'm fully aware you can't get AIDS from a sneeze or a handshake and yes, I'm fully aware not all gay people have AIDS and not all AIDS victims are gay. The reason I mentioned gay people specifically was because I get the impression that some people in here are turning this into a "gay" issue, not a "potentially deadly disease" issue.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:23 PM   #93
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Originally posted by 2861U2
The reason I mentioned gay people specifically was because I get the impression that some people in here are turning this into a "gay" issue, not a "potentially deadly disease" issue.


and this is what's really interesting.

AIDS is quite obviously not a gay disease in a worldwide context, and though it was in the beginning in the US and Europe, now straight people make up the majority of new HIV infections, and the most at-risk group are straight african-americans.

however, in 1992, it was seen as a "gay disease," and it was a wonderfully effective way for the socially conservative right to view AIDS as some sort of punishment for a "sinful" lifestyle. there was a horrible t-shirt that was popular in some corners that read: "AIDS is killing the right people." i remember Sebastian Bach getting in trouble for wearing a t-shirt that read "AIDS Kills Fags Dead."

so while AIDS has never been solely a gay disease, it has disproportionately affected the gay community (for a long, long list of reasons, many of which are quite complex), and it has thusly been used as "evidence" that there's something wrong with being gay. further, it becomes quite easy to point at a despised segment of the population and call for "isolation" when (you don't think) it's going to be anyone who'd either, a) vote for you, or b) you don't regard as totally human.

like i said, if it were soccer moms getting HIV, you'd never, ever have a senate candidate from AR calling for "isolation."

these days, people are saying that there was too much "P.C." surrounding the early years of the AIDS crisis, and had there been quarantining of some sort in the very early 80s, perhaps the spread could have been stopped. that's something we'll never know. but it's hard not to backlash when you're already a highly discriminated against (especially back then) minority group. how do you not read more into this than what might already be there? but ultimately, it's the dormant stage of the virus that makes it so potent. you don't get sick right away. most people will come down with something akin to a flu right after seroconversion, but people can have HIV and not know it for years and years, and this makes it so easy to spread, and this is why in addition to the spread of safer sex practices i think HIV testing should be part of a routine doctor's visit. once people know they have the virus, most people are very responsible for their health and for the health of others, and once someone is on medications, their ability to infect others is greatly reduced.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:29 PM   #94
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Originally posted by Irvine511


however, in 1992, it was seen as a "gay disease," and it was a wonderfully effective way for the socially conservative right to view AIDS as some sort of punishment for a "sinful" lifestyle.
Well I certainly don't condone that at all, and anyone who thinks that way doesn't speak for me. I'm sorry, I just don't think that was Huckabee's objective, though.

Thanks for the post, Irvine. It was interesting.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:34 PM   #95
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Maybe I'm not. But I'm not claiming to be. All I'm saying is I'm giving Huckabee the benefit of the doubt.
What benefit of the doubt are you giving him? He made the comment in 92 and then he stood by that statement in 2007. In 2007 he thinks it was a good idea to isolate AIDS victims. This ignorance isn't presidential material.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:37 PM   #96
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are some of us badgering the witness?
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #97
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


What benefit of the doubt are you giving him? He made the comment in 92 and then he stood by that statement in 2007. In 2007 he thinks it was a good idea to isolate AIDS victims. This ignorance isn't presidential material.
He isn't necessarily "standing by" his statement. Have you listened to what he said? He's stated he would have said it differently. He doesn't currently think AIDS victims should be isolated, and he isn't denying he ever said it, which is what many politicians do regarding stupid and/or controversial statements. What else do you want?
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:41 PM   #98
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I believe Irvine is correct, that's how it was in 1992. That's certainly how I remember it. AIDS will probably always be a "gay issue" merely because of the fact that some people used it to discriminate against gay people and some still do. For that reason it can never be just a health issue. Of course other people who have it who are not gay can also be discriminated against. Huckabee is accountable for his seeming refusal to refute what he said, why won't he just admit that it was morally wrong and not based in reality? What people thought back then and public ignorance/lack of information back then is no excuse for what he is saying and doing in 2007.


The Associated Press

DES MOINES, Iowa

Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee's 15-year-old comments that AIDS patients should have been isolated have so alarmed the mother of Ryan White, an Indiana teenager whose life-ending battle with AIDS in the 1980s engrossed the nation, that she has asked for a meeting.

"I would be very willing to meet with them," the former Arkansas governor responded Tuesday while campaigning in western Iowa. "I would tell them we've come a long way in research, in treatment."

The GOP front-runner in Iowa's Jan. 3 caucuses stood by his 1992 comments in a broadcast interview Sunday, infuriating Jeanne White-Ginder, the late teen's mother and a board member of the AIDS Institute.

"It's so alarming to me," she said in a telephone interview Monday with The Associated Press from her home in Leesburg, Fla.

"It's very important to me that we don't live in the darkness" when people thought AIDS was transmitted through casual contact, such as by "kissing, tears, sweat and saliva," White-Ginder said. "We have to treat this disease like a disease, and like Ryan always said, not like a dirty word."

White was 13 when he was diagnosed with AIDS in December 1984, having contracted the disease from the blood-clotting agent used to treat his hemophilia. He was barred from school the following year out of fear the disease was spread casually. He died in 1990 at age 18.

On Tuesday, the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group, and the AIDS Institute sent a letter to Huckabee asking him to meet with White-Ginder who declined in the interview to say what political party she belongs to and calling his comments "completely beyond comprehension."

In response, Huckabee told reporters in Council Bluffs, Iowa: "I certainly never would want to say anything that would be hurtful to them or anyone else. I would have great regret and anxiety if I thought my comments were hurtful or in any way added to the already incredible pain that families have felt regardless of how they contracted AIDS."

Once an underdog, the candidate has come under increased scrutiny as he has soared to the front-running position in the important Iowa caucuses and elsewhere over the past few weeks. He's faced criticism, in particular, for his comments on AIDS, and his records on parole, taxes and immigration in his decade as governor, and those issues were all but certain to be raised at a GOP debate in Iowa on Wednesday.

He said he expected more criticism to come.

"That's part of the way we unfortunately do politics in America," Huckabee said. "When you're a governor for ten and half years you make thousands of decisions every year. In office that long, you're going to have a lot of decisions people can pore through."
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:43 PM   #99
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He isn't necessarily "standing by" his statement. Have you listened to what he said? He's stated he would have said it differently. He doesn't currently think AIDS victims should be isolated, and he isn't denying he ever said it, which is what many politicians do regarding stupid and/or controversial statements. What else do you want?
This is what he said. How is that not standing by it? He would state it differently-that's a vague and open ended statement.

'I still believe this today,'' he said in a broadcast interview, that ''we were acting more out of political correctness'' in responding to the AIDS crisis. ''I don't run from it, I don't recant it,'' he said of his position in 1992. Yet he said he would state his view differently in retrospect.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:44 PM   #100
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Originally posted by 2861U2


He isn't necessarily "standing by" his statement. Have you listened to what he said? He's stated he would have said it differently. He doesn't currently think AIDS victims should be isolated, and he isn't denying he ever said it, which is what many politicians do regarding stupid and/or controversial statements. What else do you want?
What else do I want? For him to say, "I was ignorant, I'm sorry."

But he said this instead:

Quote:
''I still believe this today,'' he said in a broadcast interview, that ''we were acting more out of political correctness'' in responding to the AIDS crisis. ''I don't run from it, I don't recant it,'' he said of his position in 1992. Yet he said he would state his view differently in retrospect.
"I still believe this today" that's not standing by his statement?

Wording it different wouldn't have made any difference in the world.
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