Snitches get stitches! Yo!

[Flying FuManchu]

Dumb ass or a just plain evil ass dude?

(CBS) Rap star Cam'ron says there's no situation — including a serial killer living next door — that would cause him to help police in any way, because to do so would hurt his music sales and violate his "code of ethics."

Cam'ron, whose real name is Cameron Giles, talks to Anderson Cooper for a report on how the hip-hop culture's message to shun the police has undermined efforts to solve murders across the country.

Cooper's report will be broadcast on 60 Minutes this Sunday, April 22, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

"If I knew the serial killer was living next door to me?" Giles responds to a hypothetical question posed by Cooper. "I wouldn't call and tell anybody on him — but I'd probably move. But I'm not going to call and be like, 'The serial killer's in 4E.' "

Giles' "code of ethics" also extends to crimes committed against him. After being shot and wounded by gunmen, Giles refused to cooperate with police. Why?

"Because … it would definitely hurt my business, and the way I was raised, I just don't do that," says Giles.

Pressed by Cooper, who says had he been the victim, he would want his attacker to be caught, Giles explains further: "But then again, you're not going to be on the stage tonight in the middle of, say, Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, with people with gold and platinum teeth and dreadlocks jumping up and down singing your songs, either. We're in two different lines of business."

"So for you, it's really about business?" Cooper asks.

"It's about business," Giles says, "but it's still also a code of ethics."

Rappers appear to be concerned about damaging what's known as their "street credibility," says Geoffrey Canada, an anti-violence advocate and educator from New York City's Harlem neighborhood.

"It's one of those things that sells music and no one really quite understands why," says Canada. Their fans look up to artists if they come from the "meanest streets of the urban ghetto," he tells Cooper. For that reason, Canada says, they do not cooperate with the police.

Canada says in the poor New York City neighborhood he grew up in, only the criminals didn't talk to the police, but within today's hip-hop culture, that has changed. "It is now a cultural norm that is being preached in poor communities … It's like you can't be a black person if you have a set of values that say 'I will not watch a crime happen in my community without getting involved to stop it,' " Canada tells Cooper.

Young people from some of New York's toughest neighborhoods echo Canada's assessment, calling the message not to help police "the rules" and helping the police "a crime" in their neighborhoods.

These "rules" are contributing to a much lower percentage of arrests in homicide cases — a statistic known as the "clearance rate" — in largely poor, minority neighborhoods throughout the country, according to professor David Kennedy of the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent. "In these neighborhoods, we are on the verge of — or maybe we have already lost — the rule of law," he tells Cooper.

Says Canada: "It's like we're saying to the criminals, 'You can have our community … Do anything you want and we will either deal with it ourselves or we'll simply ignore it.'"

Produced By Andy Court and Keith Sharman
© MMVII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Maybe there will be some uproar about this or maybe his record sales could go through the roof!

 

[BVS]

It's just ignorance. A warped sense of code, kinda sad.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it's sad, pathetic and only goes to further stereotypes against the black community...

and it's what sells.

sad sad sad

 

[UberBeaver]

Al Sharpton should be debating issues like this within the black community. that, however, doesn't make front page news, so oh well.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

^ What they both said.

 

[CTU2fan]

You see the same lack of cooperation with police among many non-black communities, but hey, rapper-bashing sells.

 

[financeguy]

Al Sharpton should be debating issues like this within the black community. that, however, doesn't make front page news, so oh well.

Spot on.

 

[CTU2fan]

Pretty sure Al's a grown man, and should debate whatever he sees fit. Emancipation happened.

 

[BVS]

Spot on.

 

[yolland]

Rappers appear to be concerned about damaging what's known as their "street credibility," says Geoffrey Canada, an anti-violence advocate and educator from New York City's Harlem neighborhood.

What's really sad is that Cooper is giving more time to people like Cam'ron than people like Geoff Canada, whose Harlem Children's Zone centers have enabled thousands of kids from some of the poorest and highest-crime neighborhoods in NYC to finish school and move on to a better future. If it's true that there are too many Cam'rons to go around and not enough Geoff Canadas, it's also true that it's too easy to waste time clucking about the former rather than supporting and learning from the latter. People are only paying Cam'ron to entertain them anyhow and he manages that feat well enough. As for distrust of the police and valorization of the "strong" silent approach that leads to, that's a much, much bigger issue than just rap stars.

 

[maycocksean]

Al Sharpton should be debating issues like this within the black community. that, however, doesn't make front page news, so oh well.

Why should Al Sharpton be responsible for debating any particular issues in "the black community"? Let me ask you this: what are the issues of the "white community" and who should be at the forefront of debating those issues? Would that be George W. Bush or Ted Kennedy? Who are the "spokespeople" for YOUR community?

Cam'ron is a despicable opportunist cynically making money off his shocking statements (or hoping to make money, after all he's not that big a star--I'd never even heard of him until today). In that respect he, and say, someone like Ann Coulter aren't much different.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I think Cam'ron is actually relatively popular and he's popular to an audience that doesn't need that kind of philosophy, entrenched in their heads- young black men.

Wonder what Anderson Cooper was thinking when he heard Cam'ron spouting off.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

You see the same lack of cooperation with police among many non-black communities, but hey, rapper-bashing sells.

What communities? Are you a Cam'ron fan?

 

[yolland]

I think Cam'ron is actually relatively popular and he's popular to an audience that doesn't need that kind of philosophy, entrenched in their heads- young black men.

Do you really think he or any other rapper singlehandedly "entrenches" that sort of attitude towards the police in people who before listening to his music felt a high degree of trust in them?

Wonder what Anderson Cooper was thinking when he heard Cam'ron spouting off.

How great the titillating shock factor of having Social Pathology Incarnate appear on his show would be for ratings, most likely. What audience is Cooper popular with?

 

[trevster2k]

I just watched this, man, that's fucked up.

Although, the snitch credo is not exclusive to rap music or black youth. I remember kids in school getting in trouble along with troublemakers for ratting out a misbehaving classmate. The teacher asks who threw that pencil which hit a classmate in the eye, no one says a word and no one comes forward afterwards either. People are always saying " no one likes a rat". We have legislation now for people who come forward with the truth for whistleblowers. Telling the truth needs legal protection in our society, wtf?!?. Big businesses and governments have this no snitching code too. Sad sad sad.

This is not just a Camron thing, it's pervasive throughout our society. Doing the right thing gets a person a medal these days when it should be the norm.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Do you really think he or any other rapper singlehandedly "entrenches" that sort of attitude towards the police in people who before listening to his music felt a high degree of trust in them?

How great the titillating shock factor of having Social Pathology Incarnate appear on his show would be for ratings, most likely. What audience is Cooper popular with?

When I think about it, do I "truly" think Cam'ron "singlehandly entrenches" that sort of attitude in his audience? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I do believe he IS an influence at the least and his music is easily accessible to kids. People are like sheep and will follow anybody and can adopt an irrational idea very easily as their own or reinforce their faith in idea when they hear similar ideas.

 

[maycocksean]

I just watched this, man, that's fucked up.

Although, the snitch credo is not exclusive to rap music or black youth. I remember kids in school getting in trouble along with troublemakers for ratting out a misbehaving classmate. The teacher asks who threw that pencil which hit a classmate in the eye, no one says a word and no one comes forward afterwards either. People are always saying " no one likes a rat". We have legislation now for people who come forward with the truth for whistleblowers. Telling the truth needs legal protection in our society, wtf?!?. Big businesses and governments have this no snitching code too. Sad sad sad.

This is not just a Camron thing, it's pervasive throughout our society. Doing the right thing gets a person a medal these days when it should be the norm.

But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.

 

[CTU2fan]

But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.

That was exactly my point earlier. Snitching/ratting is frowned upon generally, cooperation with the police is rare in many immigrant communities (not singling out a particular race/nationality). What do they call that thing the cops have, the "blue wall"? When cops start ratting on their dirty fellow officers maybe they can expect a little more help.

Not sure that Cam's comments influence anything, I think the influence goes in the other direction. If he (or 50, or Fabolous, or whoever) goes around advocating snitching, will it influence anything? I doubt it...if anything he'd just be rejected by his audience. Not saying he said it to be more popular or to have more "streed cred" (I hate that term but whatever). But IMO it's a false assumption to think many people will be less likely to snitch because Cam doesn't snitch. At least not urban kids...maybe a few suburban kids who think they're thugs because they have T.I.'s CD I guess, but that's about it.

 

[BVS]

But it's only cause for horror when it's a black guy advocating the "no snitching" code.

Exactly

Seems like some folks have never seen the Sopranos, Godfather, etc...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

 

[Irvine511]

Seems like some folks have never seen the Sopranos, Godfather, etc...

or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.

 

[BVS]

or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.

Very true...

 

[CTU2fan]

I blame Al Sharpton...

 

[yolland]

or have heard of Enron. or WorldCom. or Adelphia. or Arthur Andersen. or Solomon Smith Barney. or Halliburton. or Tyco.

or The Catholic Church.

Can you say this about those organizations, though?

"I work in communities where the clearance rate for homicides has gone into the single digits," says Kennedy. The national rate for homicide clearance is about 60 percent.

I do see this as a serious problem--I just don't think what some rapper says has much of any illumination to offer; distrust of the police and valorization of not cooperating with them is a much bigger problem than Cam'ron. And I think you have to ask what effect Anderson Cooper's take on the issue is likely to have--was this a serious piece of investigative journalism devoted to uncovering the roots of the problem, or an easy exercise in shocking the audience with horror stories of the 'pathologies' of the black urban poor? Did he talk about the history behind the concept of 'snitching'? How these "confidential informants" became a fixture of plea-bargain agreements through the "War on Drugs" to the point where 1 in 12 black men returning from prison have served as 'snitches' for the police? How Northwestern University's Center on Wrongful Convictions found this practice to be the leading source of wrongful convictions in the US? Did he bother looking up any of the many available "black community" spokespersons on the impact of snitching (and of the "community" response to it) at the major conference on snitches the ACLU convened in Atlanta recently? Did he bother to check the hip hop blogosphere for any worm's-eye-view perspectives on the "Don't Snitch" code, for example this or this? And, yes, what about the broader social context of the history of bad relations with the police in poor high-crime neighborhoods generally? Why not talk to someone like Michael MacDonald, whose biography All Souls on growing up in Boston's rough Irish Catholic Southie neighborhood is absolutely pervaded with that theme, including 'snitch' stories?

I didn't see the segment, so maybe he did do all that. But it's a lot easier to get people to be SHOCKED, just SHOCKED, at someone like Cam'ron's purported appalling thug values (which may well exist; he was shot at close range himself back in 2005 and refused to give police any details because of his "code") than to give your audience a feel for the bigger picture of the problem--and a sense of the diversity of perspectives within the affected communities on it.

 

[Justin24]

More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.

 

[Irvine511]

More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.

[q]Good Morning, this ain't Vietnam still
People lose hands, legs, arms for real
Little was known of Sierra Leone
And how it connect to the diamonds we own
When I speak of Diamonds in this song
I ain't talkin bout the ones that be glown
I'm talkin bout Rocafella, my home, my chain
These ain't conflict diamonds,is they Jacob? don't lie to me mayne
See, a part of me sayin' keep shinin',
How? when I know of the blood diamonds
Though it's thousands of miles away
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here, its a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charmses
I thought my Jesus Piece was so harmless
'til I seen a picture of a shorty armless
And here's the conflict
It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice
How could somethin' so wrong make me feel so right, right?
'fore I beat myself up like Ike
You could still throw ya Rocafella diamond tonight
[/q]

 

[BVS]

More proof that rap music does nothing but cause problem in society.

Horrible horrible generalization.

You sound just like my grandparents generation and what they said about Elvis.

 

[Justin24]

There is Rap and then there is Hip Hop. You do know that right. Kanye is more hip hop than rap. Hip hop you make more sense in your lyrics compared to those of Rap. Rap would be someone like Lil Jon or Ying Yang Twins.

 

[BVS]

There is Rap and then there is Hip Hop. You do know that right. Kanye is more hip hop than rap. Hip hop you make more sense in your lyrics compared to those of Rap. Rap would be someone like Lil Jon or Ying Yang Twins.

Yes, but it's still a horrible generalization. Sorry you can't see that...

 

[Justin24]

Yes, but it's still a horrible generalization. Sorry you can't see that...

Well if you read, I said rap, not Hip Hop. Rap is the one that is causing the dammage. If more political or social hip hop music came out, it would be different. There are only a few commercialized hip hop artists. Kanye, Common, and The Roots. We had 2pace and Biggie.