SMELL OF BLOOD IN THE AIR

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BLOCK

The Fly
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
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149
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Good it worked!...I got your attention.


I've been trying to avoid this forum for the past few weeks, for the obvious reason of sept11, I didn't want to argue about anything because I know it really wouldn't help and would probably just get me kicked off this board. Which is something I really don't want to happen.

But there are a few things that I just want to say before I stop posting(until the sept11 stuff stops dominating the board);

1. Afgan ppl arn't savages..so don't treat them that way
2. America isn't that different from the rest of the world so stop acting like it is
3. Bush's statement 'if your not with us you're with the terrorist' is the single most ignorant statment I had ever heard
4. Until I heard him yesterday say that he WOULD NOT talk to the taliban about stopping the bombings
5. GUESS WHAT! life goes on, I know people dying is a bad thing. But let it go. Thousands of people die around the world each day, but that wouldn't be any of AMERICAS concern now would it?
6. I AM CANADIAN, and even though our government seems to want to help you kill inocnet people most Canadians( or rather everyone that i know) doesn't want to see this happen.
7. (I'm going to go on a rant know because I do'nt want to do these damn numbers anymore)

To ALL those Americans who acually beleive BUSH (dubya) when he says "we have shown the world what being american is all about". TELL ME WHAT IT IS TO BE AMERICAN ... I WANT TO KNOW!

I was having a discussion with one of my American friends recently and he went crazy about killing and he said that if he could he would enlist in the Army just to kill the afgan people. now i know this isn't what all americans think but, does anyone else think this is some fucked up thinking?

He continued tot el me when i called himcrazy that I didn't know about what it ment to be american...now.. I'm canadian..its not that far from the states for those of you who are ignorant enough not to know what/where canada is. Now we ( ca. us) live verry similar lives. I have no idea what the difference is other than our dollar(hehe)

he said that he had a responsibliity...now correct me if im wrong..but does the american government ask you personally when your born on american soil to fight for your flag?

A FLAG!..a peice of cloth! not even that good quality of cloth! I mean ya...it stands for stuff...but god damn..don't kill someone because they don't like your flag...or your ideals...or your fucking name...role with the punches!

you know what..to say the terrorist just attacked america for the hell of it...or that they attacked america becaue they don't like 'dipomacy' or 'womens rights' is just stupid. AMERICA pissed someone off by pushing there noises in someones business...and now that someone is mad...but the only differnec is that now..they have insulted your honor!

i know you don't want to.....but you HAVE to ....to save your life...my life...the life of my new born niece...please..make this world work, it's the only one we've got.

PEACE

(im not saying i know everything..no one does...but just try to understand where im coming from with this...think about it..tel me what you think)

i kinda went on a rant...and im not going to read it over to make sure it makes sence so...it might not
 
I'm with you on this one man.

The United States call themselves the greatest democracy on Earth. In what way is the USA is more democratic than, let's say, Canada or France ? In what ways the USA are more free than Canada or France ? I wonder... because all what their liberty showed me is no signs of welcome. Mmmmmmm.... appart from economy, of course...

------------------
?Je suis le dernier homme. Contre tous, je me d?fendrai... je ne capitulerai pas.?
"I am the last man. Against all, I will defend myself. I shall not capitulate".
" Soy el hombre pasado. Contra todos me defender?. No capitular?. "
"Ich bin der letzte Mann. Gegen alle verteidige mich ich. Ich kapituliere nicht. "
"Sono l' ultimo uomo. Contro tutti mi difender?. Non capitulate."

- Eug?ne Ionesco, "Rhinoc?ros"
 
Please do not assume that all Americans agree with our President or the current crisis in Afghanistan. I didn't vote for Bush. I am not Republican. However, I live in America, and unfortunately, like a good percentage of us - I can do absolutely nothing about what is going on. Truly the only ones who can are in Government positions or are flying planes of Afghanistan right now. Why don't you ask women what it means to be a woman? You can't ask an American what it means to be American and expect to get an answer that sums up the melting pot that is our country. You are more than welcome to rant and vent and rag on America just like I could rag on any other country - but I don't because I am not from any other country. I do not speak in blanket statements and assume I've got it right in my angry mind when I rant - especially when addressing social taboos such as politics and religion. So I don't.

Remember that the words we write here - the names we call each other - the discrimination and hate that we perpetuate only lead to what is going on in the world as we safely sit in our homes tonight.

------------------
Here's to the few who forgive what you do
and the fewer who don't even care
--Leonard Cohen
 
I guarantee you that you would feel differently if Canada had been hit.
The good points that you made are obscured by your chilling indifference to the 6,000 murders committed on 9/11. You seem convinced that the terrorists had good reason to commit their act of violence but you object to America's violent response which is absurd. Why aren't you so sanguine about American violence? Perhaps because it doesn't fit you agenda? Hmmmm...

MAP
 
The Reasons The RELEVANT* TERRORISTS Do What They Do:

1. They want ALL of Israel to be cleansed of Jews to make it an Islamic state of Palestine. (They do not seek a "portion" of current Isreal established as an independent state of Palestine, as Yasser Arafat does).
2. They want ALL non-Arabs, and eventually ALL non-muslims, cleansed from the Arab states stretching from North Africa to Iraq.
3. They want Shar'ia law to be imposed on all African and Middle Eastern nations.
4. They want U.S. and U.N. inspections, floyovers and sanctions of Iraq to end so that Saddam Hussein will be able to resume the production of chemical weapons.
5. They want the freedom to violate the rights of women, homosexuals, and religious minorities for "cultural" and religious reasons and without us or anyone else "pushing our noses in their business."

Basically, they want to institute harsh, systematic ethnic cleansing not unlike that of the Crusades and Hitler's Nazism.

~U2Alabama
 
It (war) has certain tendencies inherit in it which are, in themselves, by no means in our favour. We may hope for a good deal of cruelty and unchastity. But, if we are not careful, we shall see thousands turning in the tribulation to the enemy, while temns of thousands who don not go so far as that will nevertheless have their attention diverted from themselves to values and causes which they believe to be higher than the self.
The Enemy's human partisans have all been plainly told by Him that suffering is an essential part of what He calls Redemption; so that a faith which is destroyed by a war or a pestilence cannot really have been worth the trouble of destroying. If he (the human, the patient) applies to Enemy headquarters, I have found that the post is nearly always defended.
 
Originally posted by BLOCK:


1. Afgan ppl arn't savages..so don't treat them that way


Most people who support the US military action (your friend excluded) understand this. Please do not lump us all in with the moronic company you choose to keep.


2. America isn't that different from the rest of the world


That's right, so let us do what any other country would do if they were attacked.


3. Bush's statement 'if your not with us you're with the terrorist' is the single most ignorant statment I had ever heard


So, I ask you, how can anyone be "neutral" towards terrorism?


4. Until I heard him yesterday say that he WOULD NOT talk to the taliban about stopping the bombings


He is doing the correct thing by not negotiating. The terms are simple and clear cut. Hand over bin Laden and his terrorist network. Negotiating would be a waste of time, and would only help bin Laden.


5. GUESS WHAT! life goes on, I know people dying is a bad thing. But let it go. Thousands of people die around the world each day, but that wouldn't be any of AMERICAS concern now would it?


Let's see, which country gives more in aid than all others combined? Which country also sends more volunteers to grief stricken countries? You guessed it.


6. our government seems to want to help you kill inocnet people



ridiculous


------------------
Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do for someone is to just tell them to fuck off. I am told to fuck off rather a lot by these three gentlemen.
 
True words, Stars! This thread, like many others before it, was designed with just one purpose - to spew hateful lies about the US. I am sick and tired of America-bashing! I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for people who post hateful things like this. And in case any of you people try to twist my words (like some of you do), I am not saying that I don't have respect for people just because they don't agree with American policies. I am talking about crap like this; crap posted with the intention of being hateful towar America.
 
Amen, Stars!

------------------
Here's to the few who forgive what you do
and the fewer who don't even care
--Leonard Cohen
 
Originally posted by Rono:
And what would America do when my homecountry was attacked ?

What are you trying to say, Rono? That you want America to start fighting other people's wars for them as well?

Or are you suggesting that we'd just sit around and do nothing? I hope not, because history sure paints a different picture there...

Really, clue me in here, because that's an awfully vague statement.
 
I want to see some differend opinions here.

I think America would not be intrested in fighting terrorist in the scale that they do now.
 
Thank you for the creative critisim...most of you
smile.gif


Just to clarify tho...I'm not an american hating devil worshiping bastered! I don't think AMERICA is ALL bad...and I don't think ALL americians are bad/ignorant...but,yes there's a but. You have to admit that the good-ol us of a didn't really care about TERRORisssm until YOU got attacked...and then you launch a huge campaign..and try to lay ALL the blame off on to other countries
it was canada's fault for leting them become canadians so they could cross...it was afangs fault for harboring them..
im not trying to say that those people dying was at all unsignificant..but try to understand that thousands of people are killed everyday..in other countries..and terrorism was going on before this happend...so don't ...i forgot what my point was.....ahhh...damn... i'll think of it


(new thought)


how can you have a stray missle? ...how? With your guidence systems that can send a rocket though an open window...how can you miss your target by km at a time? HOW!

(im not asking your avg american to answer..im just asking you to think about it...how~)


to those of you who say ' what if canada was bombed'..well iwould be very mad.and very hurt..but i doubt that in my wildest moment that i would ever consider...or want my gov. to take the lives of anyone else...for punishment......i realy don't beleive that ANYTHING gives ANYONE the right to kill someone else...

ahhh...ya...soo....ya...thats all i have to say..i don't think anyone else had anymore complaints to me......so im done


WAIT!!!

i was reading my email the other day when i got an email that said "purchase your rememberance american flag set"...now i looked around the email for any indication of payment to the sept11 fund...but.....no...there was none...some ASS..desided to make a friggin' profit on this..

PEACE!


(ps. does anyone know Electric Light Orchestra?)


also sorry to anyone who i am offending
 
You're not allowed to dislike America, BLOCK. You must join on the bandwagon, otherwise you'll be cast to the lions. It's not like this place is called, "Free Your Mind," or anything.

And, yes, I support what's going on war-wise, at least with the info the government has been spoon-feeding the media. So you can't accuse me of being a "terrorist sympathizer."

Melon
 
Block,
I want to remind you that with any kind of technology things can break down. There is no weapon system that hits its target 100% of the time. One out of every four US soldiers that died during the Gulf War, died from friendly fire. Mistakes happen, and technology is not error proof. Investing in high tech weaponry has led to a massive drop in the number of civilian losses from air strikes. During World War II, it took nearly a thousand air sorties to destroy a single fixed target, in Vietnam a over hundred, today usually only one. This also helps to bring the conflict to a decisive conclusion sooner by being more effective in destroying enemy forces and there by ending the conflict sooner which in turn protects civilians.
 
Originally posted by Rono:
And what would America do when my homecountry was attacked ?

Ummm...

Watch the movies "A Bridge Too Far" and "Band of Brothers", then get back to us.


------------------
Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do for someone is to just tell them to fuck off. I am told to fuck off rather a lot by these three gentlemen.
 
Originally posted by melon:
You're not allowed to dislike America, BLOCK. You must join on the bandwagon, otherwise you'll be cast to the lions. It's not like this place is called, "Free Your Mind," or anything.


Melon,

I notice YOU have no problem disagreeing with people on this board. That's all some of us did here, disagree with BLOCK. It's not like we froze his Interference account or anything...

Get over yourself!

------------------
Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do for someone is to just tell them to fuck off. I am told to fuck off rather a lot by these three gentlemen.
 
Originally posted by StarsnStripes:
That's all some of us did here, disagree with BLOCK.
The "some of us" probably doesn't include me. I did more than disagree with him. I vented. But this time I'm not gonna apologize. The anti-American rhetoric is getting old.
 
Originally posted by StarsnStripes:
Get over yourself!

Ditto.

Melon



------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
BLOCK:

Your views are skewed and simply ignorant. I do not know if what you said comes from the age you are (I assume very young) or from your ability to live in a beautiful country that needs not worry about terrorism in your homeland.

To begin with, you should read the essay by a Canadian journalist named Gordon Sinclair. I have posted it under the name USA "The Good Neighbor". It speaks of how during every war, World and otherwise the USA has been there to help other countries in other countries. Yes, the USA may have had something to gain from this, but most likely it was helping other countries develop democratic lands so that they do not end up like regimes from the middle east where women are circumsized, made to wear veils, and are stoned to death if they walk outside without a male from their imeediate family. The parallels between fundamental extremist Islam and the Nazi party are clear and if they are not watched, reacted to, or fought World War Three will be here closer than most think (unless it has begun.)

For someone from a country whose borders are as strong as gauze to be criticizing the USA for its reaction, you should be ashamed of yourself. Many of the culprits in this disgusting act came through your country to get here.

I may be venting, and I may be mad to read your views on this, but please understand the direct analogy here is this: if I walked up to you (being a total stranger) and slapped you in the face, you would not look the other way.

It strikes closer to home as the first plane to hit the WTC flew over my head.

The office I work in overlooks the disaster site. It is immense, dense, and full of death.

The work I do is based in Canada and a Canadian colleague of mine brought up this point, what if this happened in Canada, what would/could your country do??? Either Canada would do nothing, as you suggest, or your government would have to rely on its allies (including the US) to fight its war for you. Shame.

Do not criticize the US response to this simply because we are able to respond to this.

Finally, do not criticize the US response, but more so AMERICANS because, need I remind you, YOU block, YOU too are the extreme fundamentalist Islamic's enemy, they do not segregate Americans from Canadians, but democratic, freedom loving people from male religious pshychotic zealots.

Again, shame on you. You do not need to know people who died in this tragedy to understand it, but you should respect those who do before you let your ignorance pervade forums like this.

-Ouizy
 
America: The Good Neighbor

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward
was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of
Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United
States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by Tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, war- mongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet,
the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
don't they fly them? Why do all the International
lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -
not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them,
unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me
even one time when someone else raced to the Americans
in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at The lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one
of those."

Stand proud, America!"


------------------
"...I'll see you again, when the stars fall from the sky, and the the moon has turned red over One Tree Hill..."

NYC RIP
 
Originally posted by StarsnStripes:
Ummm...

Watch the movies "A Bridge Too Far" and "Band of Brothers", then get back to us.



Oke, i will watch it after Pearl habour.
 
Originally posted by Rono:
Oke, i will watch it after Pearl habour.


LOL...good one there. You've got me laughing now.

Melon



------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time
 
Originally posted by ouizy:
America: The Good Neighbor

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional
Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it
was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward
was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of
Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United
States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by Tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, war- mongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is
gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar
build its own airplane. Does any other country in the
world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet,
the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why
don't they fly them? Why do all the International
lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -
not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them,
unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting
American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were
breaking down through age, it was the Americans who
rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the
New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to
the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me
even one time when someone else raced to the Americans
in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at The lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one
of those."

Stand proud, America!"



Did America ever asked for help ?


( serious question, i realy don`t know )
 
I'm not going to talk about my point of view here b/c everyone who read previous threads on this subject are familiar with it.
I'll just say that I agree with Melon. I don't agree with Holy Joe, but just b/c he is so aggresive, nothing else. BLOCK you have samo good points, you said it a little bit rough so people can have fun with taking evry word of yours and criticise it, I generaly feel the same way as you.
Let me just say this: I know a lot of american people and I like them all, but for all the things that happened in the past i'm not short of hating the US government.
so US government - almost HATE
US people - generaly LOVE, same as any other people from any other state, besides Serbia - they are my natural nemesis!

Now for some qoute:

Originally posted by StarsnStripes:
Originally posted by BLOCK:


5. GUESS WHAT! life goes on, I know people dying is a bad thing. But let it go. Thousands of people die around the world each day, but that wouldn't be any of AMERICAS concern now would it?


Let's see, which country gives more in aid than all others combined? Which country also sends more volunteers to grief stricken countries? You guessed it.





I quoted something like this in another thread and this is just wrong - maybe US is giving the most in absolute amount of help - BUT when you look at help in percentage of countries GDP than it's something totaly different. Of all the western states Danemark gives 1% of their GDP, than comes other nations as Norway, France, Sweden, Australia, Germany (not paricukary in that order), and US is on the bottom of that list with 0,1% of their GDP. Don't get me wrong, you give a lot, but by saying that you give the most, especialy by the heas of the citisen, is an insult to all those nations, and all those people that give more thatn you.

Another thing: why couldn't a country be neutral? My country is not neutral, we are against terorism. But what about switzerland? will you stop all your connections with them for being neutral? And what does neutral means? Is being neutral not acting and helping, or is it saying that you are neutral?

Rono: ask australians did they ever help you in your troubles and wars?
Quizi: The article that you posted by that tv comentator is a little bit ridiculous, and totaly ignorant. By reading it i almost saw you all as angels but, luckily, I snaped out of it. Get a grip on why was america doing that, and why all the poor nations have to pay their debt+interest...
 
Just to clarify for those of you who STILL think I'm an American hating terrorist. I'M NOT!

I think America is great! I don't 'LOVE' America but I don't 'HATE' America either. I guess that would make me neutral..quite a concept eh?

PEACE

again sorry to anyone who i offended with my rant
 
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