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Old 08-05-2007, 09:10 PM   #1
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Slaughter in the Jungle

This cover story of this weeks Newsweek is very heart breaking. The story proceeds to tell of the mass killings of silver back gorillas. Some of them were killed execution style.

This made me well up when I saw while I was grocery shopping and I haven't been able to think of anything else today.

Please be aware that the photos are graphic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20012317...wsweek/page/0/
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:25 PM   #2
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Oh my God, so sad!
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Old 08-06-2007, 10:15 AM   #3
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its just horrible and sensless.
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Old 08-06-2007, 08:05 PM   #4
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People can be very cruel.
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:09 PM   #5
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Whats cool is that gorillas being slaughtered gets more sympathy and attention than human beings, of course there are more of us so maybe were cheaper.
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Old 08-06-2007, 09:26 PM   #6
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What I don't understand is that these poor innocents didn't fight back or attack.
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Old 08-07-2007, 04:53 PM   #7
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Whats cool is that gorillas being slaughtered gets more sympathy and attention than human beings, of course there are more of us so maybe were cheaper.
I never understand it when people say things like this. Whenever anyone talks about animal cruelty there are always people around like you who say something like "there are people suffering so why do animals who suffer get attention?" So are you saying that until all human suffering the world is over nobody should talk about animal suffering?

By the way, I completely disagree with your statement that "gorillas being slaughtered gets more sympathy and attention than human beings." I think this is the first gorilla cruelty thread that I've seen and I have seen many human cruelty threads. So your argument has no basis.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:12 PM   #8
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Whats cool is that gorillas being slaughtered gets more sympathy and attention than human beings, of course there are more of us so maybe were cheaper.

I agree.

Human life seems to very cheap today.

People are being slaughtered in Africa daily yet this human suffering gets very little, if any media attention in the West.

We are more concerned that the ice caps might be melting because we're driving a SUV or that a whale is stuck in San Fransico Bay.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse


People are being slaughtered in Africa daily yet this human suffering gets very little, if any media attention in the West.
Maybe you should reconsider your news sources.


Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse

We are more concerned that the ice caps might be melting because we're driving a SUV or that a whale is stuck in San Fransico Bay.
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:58 PM   #10
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Why can't cruelty to animals AND humans be on equal grounds??

I mean don't psychologists usually consider animal abuse/cruelty as "red flags" for potential behavior against people and suggest mental problems?

And not for nothing, most animals that are abused are animals that have been brought into someone's house and care. I will never understand why anyone would voluntarilly bring a dog or something into thier own home...only to starve or beat it.

It's not a question of what is more reprehensible...they both are.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse



I agree.

Human life seems to very cheap today.

People are being slaughtered in Africa daily yet this human suffering gets very little, if any media attention in the West.

We are more concerned that the ice caps might be melting because we're driving a SUV or that a whale is stuck in San Fransico Bay.
BTW: I brought this to attention because I thought it was the most sensless item I have read in along time.

Plus there are more than one cause in this world. I am tending to both.

No one is right or wrong. There's a cause for everyone.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:08 AM   #12
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Maybe people are sometimes moved to publicize the plight of animals (knowing full well that they will be subjected to the same tired and hypocritiical arguments) because unlike even the most downtrodden or oppressed human beings, animals really ARE totally helpless. They really cannot fight back, not unless its a one on one situation where one human is attacking one animal, then they can attempt a defense with tooth and claw. Assuming the man is not after them with a gun of course. When it comes down to brass tacks, we really do hold the power or life and death over our fellow creatures. They have absolutely no say in the matter, or any potential power. They continue to exist because we give them permission to do so,.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:34 AM   #13
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Originally posted by Teta040
Maybe people are sometimes moved to publicize the plight of animals (knowing full well that they will be subjected to the same tired and hypocritiical arguments) because unlike even the most downtrodden or oppressed human beings, animals really ARE totally helpless. They really cannot fight back, not unless its a one on one situation where one human is attacking one animal, then they can attempt a defense with tooth and claw. Assuming the man is not after them with a gun of course. When it comes down to brass tacks, we really do hold the power or life and death over our fellow creatures. They have absolutely no say in the matter, or any potential power. They continue to exist because we give them permission to do so,.
I agree with you 100%.

What bothers me is that it is a criminal act to kill endangered animals while killing, and even cruelly killing, un-endangered animals goes without even a fine at times. People go as far as criminally prosecuting the murder of endangered species so that the earth doesn't lose that species, but at the same time these people don't care if individual creatures within un-endangered species are tortured or murdered.

Its like saying that its okay to torture or murder animals as long as their species is not endangered. A few posters said that humans are cheap to people. But animals are not protected against cruelty or murder because there are not endangered shows that these people see these animals as cheap. Very hypocritical if you ask me.


And by the way, I do NOT think that human life is cheap. There are tons and tons of issues out there to argue for or against. Just because I am arguing for animal rights doesn't mean I think cruelty towards humans is okay.
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:43 PM   #14
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If by hitting a monkey in the head with a hammer I could save a human life. I would do it.

~a paraphase of something I heard Ted Nugent say on a talk show several years ago when confronted with animal rights activists.
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:49 PM   #15
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Killing monkeys to save humans is a worthwhile excercise, how much has that sacrifice done for the cause of medical science - although killing a Gorilla for food, meh, too gamey.
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Old 08-09-2007, 05:59 PM   #16
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Now let's see, would I hit Ted in the head to save a human of higher intelligence?
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:41 PM   #17
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And while we're at it, why don't we abolish veterinary medicine, except perhaps for life-threatening ailments in lucrative farm animals...they're just vermin, after all; let 'em suffer or die if they get hit by a car or develop a hoof infection. And let's have hunting season on stray dogs and cats, too...that way there'll be more garbage and rats available to send to starving Africans, instead of it going to waste on varmints.

As a parent, naturally I'm more concerned that my children learn to be good citizens of their country and the world than that they learn to be model dog owners. It doesn't follow from that, though, that I don't think they're learning valuable lessons in discipline, responsibility and sensitivity to others' needs by helping to care for our dog, much less that I'd shrug it off if I caught them tormenting him. It's one of innumerable small things that helps develop their moral imagination.

All this blather about valuing animals over humans is strawman absurdity--no one was proposing concern for reckless slaughter of endangered animals rather than concern for slaughter of people. The article wasn't about starving locals hunting gorillas because they have nothing else to eat, it wasn't about medical researchers discovering miracle cures through experimentation on mountain gorillas, it's about criminals armed with assault rifles and landmines illegally killing endangered wild animals--not domestic livestock being sustainably raised on farms for the purpose--to get in on the gravy train of the international niche market in "luxury" bushmeat. This is senseless ravaging of nature, it doesn't sustainably serve basic human needs.

If you're not doing what (relatively little) you can to pressure your own government to do more to address the Darfur crisis, that's your own damn fault. There are articles on it in the Times, the Post, the WSJ, the BBC, etc., etc., etc. virtually every day; we've been through all this before. But it's not the media's job to make you do anything about it; they can only inform, and if it makes you feel morally superior to make sure you read all those daily while pointedly refusing to read the odd article about mountain gorilla slaughter, well then go right ahead. I'm sure the Darfurians will be relieved to know that you nobly titillate yourself daily with stellar feature journalism about their miseries, which you then toss aside with a resigned sigh until the next day's installment, yet admirably eschew the dismal moral failing of pausing to recoil for a moment at something as absurdly less "useful" as a story about the illegal slaughter of gorillas.



BTW Ted Nugent is an idiot, I've hosted him twice as he did book signings at the store I used to manage. A nice enough guy actually, but a complete moron.
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Old 08-09-2007, 06:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by the iron horse
If by hitting a monkey in the head with a hammer I could save a human life. I would do it.

~a paraphase of something I heard Ted Nugent say on a talk show several years ago when confronted with animal rights activists.

Ted Nugent .....now there's a role model.


BTW, people just remembered who has cheapened human lives....other humans.

If we only had respect for our fellow brothers and sisters,
it would carry over into the rest of the world as well.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:30 PM   #19
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Originally posted by yolland


BTW Ted Nugent is an idiot, I've hosted him twice as he did book signings at the store I used to manage. A nice enough guy actually, but a complete moron.
I'm not a fan of Ted, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's a moron. He actually is a very intelligent conservationist. The problem is that if he spent just a fraction of the time that he spent spewing out mysoginist inuendoes and trying to put a gun in everyone's hands on humanitarian issues he'd be a redeemable guy. He's very misguided in his agendas. I have no problem with anyone who supports responsible hunting, in fact he's very good at that... What I do have a problem with is that he loses all responsibilty when it comes to not knowing where the line of gun ownership stands, and he dismisses any beliefs that don't fall into his realm.
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Old 08-09-2007, 09:56 PM   #20
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
The problem is that if he spent just a fraction of the time that he spent spewing out mysoginist inuendoes and trying to put a gun in everyone's hands on humanitarian issues he'd be a redeemable guy.
Yeah, well that was mostly the kind of 'spew' I heard from him, and it was delivered with all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer...perhaps because of 'encounters' he'd had on the book tour circuit, I don't know. Honestly he came across like one of these folks who's smoked waaaaay too much pot, and now their mind veers wildly from one association to another with attendant verbal spasms, though I doubt that was the problem. Anyhow, I don't have any problems with his views on hunting, sustainably managed hunting is fine, most everywhere I've lived has had lots of hunters, and yes it does provide an important food source for many people. And as a camper and hiker, I appreciate the fact that many great places are available for me to do those things because of hunters' license fees and hunters' interests in having responsibly managed wildlife areas supporting them. But none of that has anything to do with the thread topic; we're definitely not talking "responsible" hunting practices here, nor human lives being held hostage to those of monkeys because no one wants to hit them with a hammer.
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